Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Justice101]

Two thoughts:

One, how gross is THIS irony: that a GROWN MAN posing as a teen to lure teens into sending photos is ANNOYED by teenage antics. Yeah, sorry, Pal, you don't get to be annoyed. YOU are galactically annoying. Galactically, annoyingly criminally, devoidely disgusting.

(I sense a real immaturity in KAK, like he felt he was really interacting with these girls and that it wasn't because he was manipulating them. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to learn he thought the girls he was communicating with actually liked him. You know, the guy who thinks strippers are dancing specifically and personally for him when the world knows she's doing it for his dollars. My point, I think this was the height of LAK's "relationshipping" -- talking to girls online, nevermind that he had to pretend to be someone else to get attention. Loser.

And two, I think that his little 'annoyed' episode was a page in his grooming playbook. Head games. Manipulate a girl, get her to engage, get her to send naughty pics, keep her talking/typing til she reveals her school, her address, her friends' schools and locations and and and... get her hooked on the attention, flattery, etc.

Then cut her off.

Give her time to get dustressed, fret over what she perceives she did wrong in doing or not doing.

Grooming.

Sign back online. Let her apologize for disappointing you, running you off, etc, etc...

Now ask for more, and she'll likely oblige. That's what grooming does. He might not even ask for anything. He won't have to. She'll beg for a way to show she's sorry, didn't mean it, etc. Insidious.

Doesn't just happen to young teens either. Elderly people fill Dr. Phil's episodes. Catfished but unable/unwilling to see it.

I believe KAK was able to turn the table and get Libby to beg (be eager) for his attention. Sick sick sick skillset.

If there can be a worse, it's this: (as if this case isn't sad enough, horrifying enough) IT'S STILL HAPPENING.

Predators abound. Like sewer rats. It's beginning to feel like Indiana is the epicenter.

JMO

POST OF THE YEAR. WELL DONE!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

This week’s Murder Sheet podcast:

—LE pivoted away from the Klines in 2017 after the raid on their house because LE took the Klines word that they were in Las Vegas at the time of the murders.They never checked their alibi basically and were, unlike folks on WS, etc didn’t know how to check for altered dates on FB.
—LE’s discovery two years later of this led to the 2019 press conference.
(none of this really explains why it was another year+ before KAK was arrested on CSAM and another year before the a_shots profile was revealed)
—absolutely no information indicating KAK is trying to get a plea deal with Delphi info.
—ISP Carter is adamant that KAK go to trial and no deals be cut with him. Nobody knows why.
This is not just a mistake, this is incompetence. Fire them all.

 

[JnRyan]

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

This week’s Murder Sheet podcast:

—LE pivoted away from the Klines in 2017 after the raid on their house because LE took the Klines word that they were in Las Vegas at the time of the murders.They never checked their alibi basically and were, unlike folks on WS, etc didn’t know how to check for altered dates on FB.
—LE’s discovery two years later of this led to the 2019 press conference.
(none of this really explains why it was another year+ before KAK was arrested on CSAM and another year before the a_shots profile was revealed)
—absolutely no information indicating KAK is trying to get a plea deal with Delphi info.
—ISP Carter is adamant that KAK go to trial and no deals be cut with him. Nobody knows why.
This is not just a mistake, this is incompetence. Fire them all.

This is a person or persons where LE had enough to obtain a search warrant. And yet poor follow-up on verification of an alibi. In the massive volume of tips what are the chances that LE didn't follow-up when they didn't believe they needed a search warrant? Months or years later it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to verify whereabouts that afternoon. I doubt cell phone data is available now.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

If murder sheet are right, how can the YGS be explained?

Does it really look like either Kline?

 

[Schatz]

Cliffs Notes on the MS episode? I can’t listen yet! Where do they think the investigation is going?

 

[TTF14]

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

This week’s Murder Sheet podcast:

—LE pivoted away from the Klines in 2017 after the raid on their house because LE took the Klines word that they were in Las Vegas at the time of the murders.They never checked their alibi basically and were, unlike folks on WS, etc didn’t know how to check for altered dates on FB.
—LE’s discovery two years later of this led to the 2019 press conference.
(none of this really explains why it was another year+ before KAK was arrested on CSAM and another year before the a_shots profile was revealed)
—absolutely no information indicating KAK is trying to get a plea deal with Delphi info.
—ISP Carter is adamant that KAK go to trial and no deals be cut with him. Nobody knows why.
This is not just a mistake, this is incompetence. Fire them all.

I haven't listened to the podcast, but how do we know they didn't check their alibis, call the hotel, etc. Are we really believing the only alibi-checking they did was to look at their Facebook posts?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If murder sheet are right, how can the YGS be explained?

Does it really look like either Kline?

LE explained the YGS as being done a couple of days after the murders when someone came to LE saying they had seen something that needed reporting.
There was a good bit of speculation, even before the 2019 press conference, that a friend of Libby’s had reported to police that Libby was talking with someone on the internet. Some people were thinking that the new sketch was of that guy, the one Libby was talking to on the internet. I have come to think that myself.
You are right, the sketch looks nothing like the Kline, but it does, in my opinion, favor the fake profile of anthony_shots.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I haven't listened to the podcast, but how do we know they didn't check their alibis, call the hotel, etc. Are we really believing the only alibi-checking they did was to look at their Facebook posts?

The information came from multiple sources close to the investigation and close to Doug Carter.


edit: fixing poorly worded part

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Cliffs Notes on the MS episode? I can’t listen yet! Where do they think the investigation is going?

Although they say they know LE is working the case even when it seems like it’s quiet, it sounds like they are sitting around waiting for a break. Paul Holes formally offered his help in the spring and LE politely refused basically saying they had done everything that could possibly be done and were waiting on technology improvements etc that might help them.
That did not sound encouraging.
All that time frittered away, the podcast pretty much called them out and said the time for patience is over. I hope the families feel the same way.

edit: forgot something

 

[Monsterhunter]

Although they say they know LE is working the case even when it seems like it’s quiet, it sounds like they are sitting around waiting for a break. Paul Holes formally offered his help in the spring and LE politely refused basically saying they had done everything that could possibly be done and were waiting on technology improvements etc that might help them.
That did not sound encouraging.
All that time frittered away, the podcast pretty much called them out and said the time for patience is over. I hope the families feel the same way.

edit: forgot something

Even IF they have done everything that could be done, why would you ever turn down an offer for assistance when it comes to a case like this?! Is this purely an ego thing or is there some good reason?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Even IF they have done everything that could be done, why would you ever turn down an offer for assistance when it comes to a case like this?! Is this purely an ego thing or is there some good reason?

After five years, I sure think they would be falling over themselves to get some fresh eyes on the case.
Just my opinion, ego is driving a lot of this.

 

[Monsterhunter]

After five years, I sure think they would be falling over themselves to get some fresh eyes on the case.
Just my opinion, ego is driving a lot of this.

That's what I would think. Who cares about ego when a family's peace is at stake? And Paul Holes?! Although I don't think without Michelle McNamara, he would be NEARLY as famous but that's my opinion and not at all related to this case.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I haven't listened to the podcast, but how do we know they didn't check their alibis, call the hotel, etc. Are we really believing the only alibi-checking they did was to look at their Facebook posts?

JMO:

They could not have checked with hotels, etc.
If they had- they would have known that the K's were not in Las Vegas at the time of the murders. KAK has admitted to this himself.
I feel that they REALLY had their sights on a certain person (NOT RL) and they believed that the K's were more or less cleared of being suspects at the time.
The individual that I believe they were looking at was arrested a few weeks before the 2019 presser.
Once he was in custody, HE was cleared and they knew that they dropped the ball early on.

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Cliffs Notes on the MS episode? I can’t listen yet! Where do they think the investigation is going?

The episode was definitely worth listening to.

The part I found most interesting is that just a few weeks ago (July 20th of this year), according to the podcast's sources, Doug Carter stopped in Peru, IN and met with the Miami Co prosecutor and reviewed an "hours-long" presentation focused on the Klines and their possible involvement in the Delphi case. The Miami Co prosecutor is handling the 30 CSAM and obstruction charges that KAK is facing.

The podcasters say that a well-connected source in LE told them that one of the topics discussed was DC's view that it is crucial that the KAK case go to trial and not be pled out. DC even offered to connect Miami Co with a prosecutor from another county in order to provide more legal manpower.

They also briefly touched on KAK's trial continuance. While admitting that just because their sources haven't heard about something, doesn't mean it isn't happening, they cast doubt on the idea that KAK is using the continuance to make a deal. They have heard that a few of his charges may fall away before trial. But the winnowing of charges is common in cases like this. So if this happens, it’s not an indication of the overall health of the case against him or dealmaking for Delphi. Their sources say KAK may be on the lookout for a new attorney. Fun fact: KAK's current attorney also represented RL at one time.

The idea that investigators may have been misled by the Klines changing dates on their FB posts, to make it appear that they were in Vegas at the time of the murders when they were actually in Indiana, beggars belief (especially since they must have known about the anthony shots account at that time), but I suppose stranger things have happened. I found their discussion of how this fits into the "new direction" press conference and the way things were handled after 2019 compelling.

I agree with others who've expressed the thought that LE looked over KAK's possible involvement because they were focused on other persons of interest. Perhaps some investigators lobbied for RL, perhaps some were in favor of other sexually violent felons like JDD (you can look back at threads #1-2 for info on him).

 

[Gerrymd8]

hmmm. Having just listened to this podcast, this re-opens the whole case up to anyone is a possibility of being BG, including the possibility of a transient serial killer. 2019, they are just starting. I believe KAK is involved in a very peripheral way involving the use of the internet. Even a great disguise can't cover up such a height difference for him or his Dad. I feel so sorry for these families and their loved ones. What a tragedy all around.

 

[Monsterhunter]

JMO:

They could not have checked with hotels, etc.
If they had- they would have known that the K's were not in Las Vegas at the time of the murders. KAK has admitted to this himself.
I feel that they REALLY had their sights on a certain person (NOT RL) and they believed that the K's were more or less cleared of being suspects at the time.
The individual that I believe they were looking at was arrested a few weeks before the 2019 presser.
Once he was in custody, HE was cleared and they knew that they dropped the ball early on.

MOO

I think that's a really interesting theory and would make sense. It also might explain why they are so hesitant to accept outside help.

 

[Gerrymd8]

If murder sheet are right, how can the YGS be explained?

Does it really look like either Kline?

Yes, I do think it looks like a combination of a younger Tony and KAK. But I just think that is because of all the stuff they missed in 2017 when following up on their alibi. I don't think the drawing is actually the bridge guy.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

To be honest I do think YGS looks like TK. Strange as it sounds I do see it…

 

[M. Kay]

You are right, the sketch looks nothing like the Kline, but it does, in my opinion, favor the fake profile of anthony_shots.

I agree sketch matched "a_shots" hunk for cat fishing, and wondered here on WS then if LE hoped someone else who received ('model's') photo online for grooming purposes would come forward; as if the sketch showed some 'real person's profile she thought she communicated with. Might have had tech info then that was cleared from Libby's phone.

 

[TL4S]

Whatever evidence was collected at the CS, or recovered digitally, or given by witness accounts, clearly wasn't a slam dunk to the killer's identity, imo. My assumption is that there were multiple POIs in which LE had to investigate doing their due diligence, and my guess is that's why we see the wording in the RL affidavit, the requested PE autopsy, the DN interviews, etc. But I bet KAK was on their radar, too, the entire time.

Why did it take 3 years to charge KAK with CSAM? IMO, it was a lengthy deep dive into his devices, his dropbox, and the CSAM case got bigger and bigger. During that investigation, there surely had to be hits connecting a_shots with L. There had to be LE who suspected KAK all along. Jmo.

But there's also the possibility that KAK's connection as a_shots didn't necessarily link him as the killer, but over time, it's become more and more apparent that the a_shots account itself was a link, but they need to pinpoint, beyond a reasonable doubt, who the user was.