Found Deceased CA - Kiely Rodni missing from Party Near Prosser Family Campground in Truckee #8

[darring21]

MOO, but, respectfully, I think that is a very high estimate of what would trigger the EDR.

Pretty sure they have calibrated these EDRs for MAIT and insurance company use, and the vast majority of incidents happen at lower speeds (rear-enders at stop signs, etc)—the info would be very useful to insurance companies when determining fault and also accuracy of driver/passenger statements following an accident.

I will re-review.

I believe EDR data is property of the vehicle owner and is only accessible with a court order or possibly by the car maker (Tesla) through a release.

 

[getthefax]

This is part 563 from the government website. Federal Register :: Request Access .



This works out to a change of about 33 MPH over one second. The car would have to be moving fairly rapidly to trigger this. Is there some other trigger that would set off the EDR.

The document also has a definition for "time zero" that is closer to 25 MPH/second (0.5 MPH / 20ms).

BBM
I’m not sure what all the different types of sensors are in play that feed info to the EDR, but it’s a fact that EDR records data that does not result in airbag deployment, which would indicate to me that it also captures info for much lower speed collisions/incidents.
This data is also generally overwritten for a set number of post-incident ignitions, meaning that the EDR also records data for collisions/incidents in which a car is also left driveable. Which, to my eye, would include a lot of scenarios where velocity was <33MPH.

EDR is going to be a pretty sensitive piece of equipment, in other words.

Here’s another breakdown of how they work published by an accident attorney that I’m finding helpful:

Can your car’s event data recorder (black box) help your accident claim? – DeVaughn James Injury Lawyers

Data collected by an event recorder or black box can vary based on the auto manufacturer and may be able to help your accident claim.

www.devaughnjames.com

Edited for typo and clarity.

 

[rhino]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts have been removed. SF Investigates and Checkit TV are not approved sources at Websleuths.

Just bringing this forward from earlier today in case anyone didn’t see it

 

[getthefax]

I believe EDR data is property of the vehicle owner and is only accessible with a court order or possibly by the car maker (Tesla) through a release.

It will be a piece of cake for the LE to get a warrant to access the data from the Honda EDR as this was an incident involving a fatality.

Edited to change “accident” to “incident”

 

[darring21]

MOO, but, respectfully, I think that is a very high estimate of what would trigger the EDR.

Pretty sure they have calibrated these EDRs for MAIT and insurance company use, and the vast majority of incidents happen at lower speeds (rear-enders at stop signs, etc)—the info would be very useful to insurance companies when determining fault and also accuracy of driver/passenger statements following an accident.

I will re-review.

It will be a piece of cake for the LE to get a warrant to access the data from the Honda EDR as this was an incident involving a fatality.

Edited to change “accident” to “incident”

Yes, but I don't believe EDR data is used by insurance companies in low speed accidents. I'm guessing the trigger is fairly significant.

 

[Gemmie]

BBM
If the CR-V was actually "flat on its roof" as you claim. How was the radio antenna not broken off or damaged? They are only plastic.
Curious as to why you feel like that. picture for roof picture. If a 3500 pound SUV was flat on its roof; how did the roof bars not bend either. Look at leading edge of hood and front edge of roof. Looks like a fairly straight line to me.
View attachment 364994

I made a comment upthread that I too found it odd that the antenna was fine. I wondered if they were made to bend and mine does and looks exactly like Kiely's. Different car, but could be the same manufacturer of antennas. Even if not, the bendability is probably there in most all designs. Note that it does not bend flat. And mine feels rubbery, not plastic. Although the base of it is plastic.

Also, perhaps the car ended up in this position on the bottom (red line). Bars and antenna wouldn't be touching the bottom then. I think it's possible as the engine is the heaviest part of the car and its weight could be holding it down in that position. Or, maybe the bottom is pretty muddy which is soft and forgiving, unlike coming to rest on a rocks.



Antenna pic source: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Mo...ds=Flexible+Car+Antenna&qid=1662657553&sr=8-4

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Posts have been removed. SF Investigates and Checkit TV are not approved sources at Websleuths.

 

[darring21]

It is absolutely used in low speed accidents… In fact, it’s used very commonly in car accident litigation to establish fault.

Respectfully, I’d recommend doing your own Google searching on this subject. I’ve researched extensively and even provided links, and there are a dozen or more posts on EDRs over the past three weeks in this thread.

EDR data is used extensively by insurance companies who want to prove that their clients are not at fault in accidents. The data belongs to the driver—you bet your backside insurance companies want to see it if it will get them off the hook for the bill.

The info is all out there on the web, courtesy of Google.

Insurance companies do not have access to your EDR data. It requires a LE warrant or permission of the owner and insurance companies do not litigate low speed accidents. I believe the trigger for EDR is basically the same trigger for air bag deployment and you have not posted anything that says different. <modsnip - personalizing>

 

[Speculaytor]

IMOO, as the mother of a child the same age, and the fact that these parties had been happening for years and were known throughout the community, it would be very naive of her not to know. As well as the fact that she stated Kiely had been in a situation before where she was drinking and would not drive home. Maybe she was under the impression that Kiely was DD that night so she wasn't worried about her driving drunk. Just thinking back to teenaged days and I wouldn't worry about cleaning out the alcohol if my mom knew where I was and what was going on there, whether or not I was partaking wouldn't matter.
As far as getting pulled over, there are a lot of things IMOO that lead me to believe that also was not an issue or might not be an issue in this community. Again, JMO.

I would be very sad if a 16 yr old driving drunk was not an issue? As a mother myself, that I don't understand?

 

[tayaway]

I would be very sad if a 16 yr old driving drunk was not an issue? As a mother myself, that I don't understand?

Did she know K was drunk? If I remember correctly, she allowed K to go to the grad party b/c she was going to be a designated driver for friends like Mags (the one who talked K into going, but who allegedly left the party less than half an hour after they arrived).

As her mum, she'll have to live the rest of her life with the consequences of whatever she did/not do as a parent that night. We know that at some point after she got the text from K saying that she was leaving the party in about 45 min, her mum went to sleep. Some parents wait up for their kids while others don't.

 

[getthefax]

Insurance companies do not have access to your EDR data. It requires a LE warrant or permission of the owner and insurance companies do not litigate low speed accidents. I believe the trigger for EDR is basically the same trigger for air bag deployment and you have not posted anything that says different. <modsnip - personalizing>

<modsnip - personalizing>

EDRs exist and record data for a reason, and it isn’t for fun. They record information for individuals (to establish accident fault and circumstances, as I stated previously) and they exist for MAITs investigating major accidents (need cause/warrants, as the data is protected). They also exist so that Insurance companies may request information to support their clients in the event of litigation (insurance companies do need permission to access the data). I have spoken with sources in LE, and automotive work, who have independently confirmed what I have posted in these threads.

And I invite you to do your own research on this if you don’t find my efforts to illuminate and my posted links sufficient. I have seen not a single citation you have posted that convinces me I’m wrong.

I have been following this story since the first week in August and read every last post on EDRs (from @SteveP and others—you can use the site search tools to look for posts on these fascinating pieces of equipment). I could spend more time informing you but I suspect it would be best for you do do your own exhaustive research.

The Importance of Event Data in Low Speed Collisions | DJS Associates, Inc.

Robert T. Lynch, PE, Principal Collision Reconstruction Engineer :::: All model year 2013 and newer vehicles equipped with an event data recorder (EDR) that ...

www.forensicdjs.com

About Collision Evidence | The Future of Claims Investigations

A Car Crash Data Report can prove who is at fault in a car accident; Unbiased Evidence to Expedite injury claims, or detect motor vehicle accident fraud

collisionsciences.ca

“EDR data (crash data) is currently used by law enforcement, private accident reconstructionists, auto manufacturers, auto insurance companies, fleet management and government researchers to assist in accurately evaluating crashes involving passenger cars, light trucks and SUVs. By retrieving and reviewing the crash data stored in these vehicle, potential fault, fraud, liability, witness accounts and other evidence can be more effectively evaluated.”

From: EDR Explained - Event Data Recorder Crash Data

It is a FACT that this data is captured and used in a variety of circumstances and for a variety of reasons, by a variety of interested parties, as provided for by the federal regulations providing for the equipment of automobiles with the devices in the first place.

 

[Speculaytor]

If something nefarious did happen, and I believe it did, we will find out. Someone, who knows things will eventually feel the need to come forward. Someone will end up talking, to either LE, or to a friend who ends up talking to LE. A car goes into water, where there is a party, and nobody hears or sees a thing? SMH

 

[CuriousObserver1]

Interesting! IMO this seems to imply
there is definitely something suspicious about the case and LE are not just thinking it was an unfortunate accident.

'Suspicious' way body of missing girl found in car revealed as autopsy 'delayed'

POLICE say they are in possession of autopsy results following the death of 16-year-old Kiely Rodni but may not release them for another two months amid their ongoing investigation. The U.S. Sun of…

www.the-sun.com

In a statement, police told The U.S. Sun: "The [Nevada County] Sheriff's Office does have possession of records responsive to your request.

"It should be noted, however, [that] the investigation is not complete and is considered ongoing at this time.

"Once the investigation is complete, [the] release will be pursuant to all privileges and/or exemptions that may apply.

"We expect the investigation, review, and redaction processes to be completed by November 1, 2022."

They added that if the records are still not available in two months, they will further advise the media of a new date they may be released.

When pressed further on the time frame, a spokesman said: "The toxicology report, which has not come back yet, will be included with the entirety of what we will release when the investigation is complete, and the records are ready for release."

They added: "Death investigations have varying investigative time components depending on the circumstances surrounding the investigation. It's not uncommon for final coroner reports to take 2-3 months to be ready for public release."

 

[Beekarina]

The antenna on my Honda Fit appears to be the same one on a 2013 Honda CRV. I can confirm the end that sticks out is not very long, and it is pretty flexible.

Anything could snap off at the "weak"point, or if it got caught in something, but if I had to venture a guess, I would think a it would probably settle into the lake bed. From the videos we have seen, it looks like its kind of silty and soft as opposed to hard and gravelly?

This is the part: 39151-S6A-E02 - Honda Parts Now

 

[MsMarple]

Interesting! IMO this seems to imply
there is definitely something suspicious about the case and LE are not just thinking it was an unfortunate accident.

'Suspicious' way body of missing girl found in car revealed as autopsy 'delayed'

POLICE say they are in possession of autopsy results following the death of 16-year-old Kiely Rodni but may not release them for another two months amid their ongoing investigation. The U.S. Sun of…

www.the-sun.com

In a statement, police told The U.S. Sun: "The [Nevada County] Sheriff's Office does have possession of records responsive to your request.

"It should be noted, however, [that] the investigation is not complete and is considered ongoing at this time.

"Once the investigation is complete, [the] release will be pursuant to all privileges and/or exemptions that may apply.

"We expect the investigation, review, and redaction processes to be completed by November 1, 2022."

They added that if the records are still not available in two months, they will further advise the media of a new date they may be released.

When pressed further on the time frame, a spokesman said: "The toxicology report, which has not come back yet, will be included with the entirety of what we will release when the investigation is complete, and the records are ready for release."

They added: "Death investigations have varying investigative time components depending on the circumstances surrounding the investigation. It's not uncommon for final coroner reports to take 2-3 months to be ready for public release."

From your link:

When pressed further on the time frame, a spokesman said: "The toxicology report, which has not come back yet, will be included with the entirety of what we will release when the investigation is complete, and the records are ready for release."

They added: "Death investigations have varying investigative time components depending on the circumstances surrounding the investigation. It's not uncommon for final coroner reports to take 2-3 months to be ready for public release."

That seems to be in line with the general information contained on the Nevada County Coroner's Office website:

Autopsy Results​

When a death appears to be from natural causes, the cause of death may be available after 2 p.m. the day following the death. However, when the death is the result of a homicide, suicide, accident, and in many natural deaths, the cause of death may not be available for 16 to 20 weeks due to delays in forensic testing and the receipt of medical records. This does not delay release of the body. The body may be released to a funeral home as soon as the autopsy is completed.

Coroner | Nevada County, CA

Get information about the Coroner, and services provided.

www.nevadacountyca.gov

The Sun is implying Kiely's death is suspicious because the AWP diver said it was but the reporter using the delay in releasing the autopsy report as evidence substantiating the claim of foul play IMO makes no sense. LE told the reporter exactly the same information that's on the official website that can easily be accessed. MOO.

 

[Beekarina]

Agree the reporter was bending to fit their headline, but I'm curious if 16-20 weeks is typical now for those of you who usually follow recent cases?

I usually hang out in the long cold case forums, and my limited personal experience with family members was a much shorter timeline. i.e. 4-6 weeks, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[MsMarple]

Agree the reporter was bending to fit their headline, but I'm curious if 16-20 weeks is typical now for those of you who usually follow recent cases?

I usually hang out in the long cold case forums, and my limited personal experience with family members was a much shorter timeline. i.e. 4-6 weeks, if I'm remembering correctly.

Based on my own experience following cases here the short answer is... sometimes. For example, AJ Hadsell's body was found April 9, 2015 and her COD was released on June 26, 2015, nearly three months later. The full autopsy paperwork wasn't released until early 2019. That was in Virginia so California could follow different procedures.

Plus, we're also waiting on the report from MAIT which could take a while. We can only guess if LE will release any info before all reports are complete. Given the stink eye some are giving them they might want to be sure all their ducks are in a row. MOO.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Have been skimming some posts; have not given detailed thought to the mechanics of position of car or body, but have not seen this possibility mentioned (apologies if it has / is too impractical): Could KR have been toward the back of the vehicle while still alive (adjusting something; napping; using laptop; whatever), with the car accidentally entering the water (maybe it wasn't fully in park; needed parking brake engaged but it wasn't; managed to knock gearshift with foot; whatever)? Also wondering: Is there any sort of tide and/or current there, significant enough to affect a car, either directly (carrying it, or impacting buoyancy, eg) or indirectly (as by changing the sand it might be on, eg)?

yes its been mentioned. we dont know.

 

[Beekarina]

Based on my own experience following cases here the short answer is... sometimes. For example, AJ Hadsell's body was found April 9, 2015 and her COD was released on June 26, 2015, nearly three months later. The full autopsy paperwork wasn't released until early 2019. That was in Virginia so California could follow different procedures.

Plus, we're also waiting on the report from MAIT which could take a while. We can only guess if LE will release any info before all reports are complete. Given the stink eye some are giving them they might want to be sure all their ducks are in a row. MOO.

That makes perfect sense.

I would much rather see them take their time, and give a report that is conclusive and complete.

 

[getthefax]

Agree the reporter was bending to fit their headline, but I'm curious if 16-20 weeks is typical now for those of you who usually follow recent cases?

I usually hang out in the long cold case forums, and my limited personal experience with family members was a much shorter timeline. i.e. 4-6 weeks, if I'm remembering correctly.

That wait time (according to LE I have asked personally) is typical for a CHP MAIT report (California).

Edited to add: California