Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[CSIDreamer]

11/15/2022

Order Issued Court finds Defendant is unable to hire counsel and is entitled to Court-appointed counsel. Court appoints Attorney Bradley Rozzi and Attorney Andrew Baldwin as contract Public Defenders. Counsel instructed to enter their written appearance and be available for hearing November 22, 2022 at 9:00 a.m. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 11/14/2022

 

[CSIDreamer]

11/15/2022

Order Issued Court finds Defendant is unable to hire counsel and is entitled to Court-appointed counsel. Court appoints Attorney Bradley Rozzi and Attorney Andrew Baldwin as contract Public Defenders. Counsel instructed to enter their written appearance and be available for hearing November 22, 2022 at 9:00 a.m. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 11/14/2022

I couldn't get the link to mycase in my post, sorry.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Fargo]

Certain Kline has unlocked this. No reset of the investigation.
Why it took LE so long to get at the Anthony_Shots account and involvement is anyone's guess?
But when you hear that the fella that allegedly did this actually made himself known days after the crime, is anyone surprised?

Shocking police work.

I don't think 11 days is a terribly long time for LE to track the anthony_shots account, raid KK's house, and question him about Libby and Abby. Why it took LE a further 3 1/2 years to arrest KK for CSAM is another question altogether, but LE got at the anthony_shots account and KK in less than 2 weeks. The search warrant was served Feb 25, 2017. My opinion only.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Tx-statement-Kegan-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1.pdf

 

[chocolope]

I read through the original search warrant for Ron Logan's home (he has since been cleared by LE). Investigators never said how the girls were killed, however, the warrant notes significant blood loss and says they were killed by a [redacted] weapon. In the amount of space that would fit, we can assume the word is either "blunt" or "edged" (or "sharp", but I recently learned LE uses the word "edged").

Later on in the warrant, there is a specific request to seize both firearms and "cutting instruments."

So, we don't know details, but we can reasonably guess that a firearm was used to intimidate the girls, and a knife/axe/edged weapon was used in the murder.

[1] https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

 

[legalmomma]

ISP Sup. Chief Carter live on WIBC right now Hammer & Nigel - WIBC - 11-15-22 | Hammer & Nigel - WIBC - 11-15-22 | By 93.1 WIBC-FM | Facebook

 

[legalmomma]

Per Carter on the live: sketches were not a mistake. He was convinced they could be used together.

Carter feels the arrest affidavit will be released. Not much else on the live.

 

[Trebor5591]

Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color.

The statement regarding eye color has to be one of the oddest statement I've heard from LE. How can anyone know BGs eyes were not blue, but can't say what color they were?

 

[Prime8]

I don’t understand how that would prevent them from investigating him? It was in the file.

The article said he told the conservation officer hours after the murder that he was on the bridge. At that point RA probably didn’t know there was video of him.

The first day the girls were missing? Sure. They were looking for alive girls and no one saw them on the trails. I understand why LE thought maybe they left the trails and went elsewhere. But after the bodies were found? How did they not go straight back to the people who admitted to being on the trails and start the investigation there?

We don't know at this point if it was investigated or not, and to what extent. It could have been investigated thoroughly and found to be unfounded. We'll find out eventually.

 

[Prime8]

Agreed. The video doesn't appear to have been taken by Libby holding her phone at eye level and shooting footage of BG walking. It appears as if it's down by her side and being taken discreetly. Very possible he noticed the phone, but not that he was being recorded because it's not like cell phones have a red light that goes on when recording starts like you see in a studio.

I've heard rumors, and it makes sense based on the image we see and the distance they were away from him, that what we see is not the full image of what was taken. It is likely a snippet of a larger image with BG in the background and AW in the foreground.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

How did RA not see Libby using her phone to record him?

From the video it appears he was looking down and she may have tried to hide the fact she was recording him - I think if he knew he was being recorded he would have left

 

[Vpq]

I don't think RA is the source of either sketch. From yesterday's article, it appears RA spoke with a CO on the 13th, while the girls were only considered missing, and that's it. He was then forgotten about. So I think that excludes him from any more LE interaction, especially the interview process of a witness for making a sketch. JMO.

That makes sense

 

[Trebor5591]

If they had a smoking gun like dna they wouldn't be buying time to keep building their case. They would have confidently presented it as there was no other way for that dna to reach that remote area.

*graphic* MOO Not so certain DNA would be a smoking gun. It would be if it was DNA from sperm found in one or both of the girl's bodies, or the murderer's blood found at the scene, but if it were from a cigarette butt on the ground, or human spittle on the ground, it might be the DNA of a search party member. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I was just doing some timeline review. Basically, if RA talked to a DNR officer it was between 5:30 pm and midnight on the 13th.

DELPHI TIMELINE: Disappearance and murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

The mystery surrounding a double murder continues over a month after the bodies of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, were found. </p><p><strong>MORE </strong>| <a…

www.wrtv.com

JMO

 

[Dotta]

*graphic* Not so certain DNA would be a smoking gun. It would be if it was DNA from sperm found in one or both of the girl's bodies, or the murderer's blood found at the scene, but if it were from a cigarette butt on the ground, or human spittle on the ground, it might be the DNO of a search party member. MOO

What about DNA from under the girl/s' fingernails?
Maybe they both or one of them fought for their life?

Moo

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I was just doing some timeline review. Basically, if RA talked to a DNR officer it was between 5:30 pm and midnight on the 13th.

DELPHI TIMELINE: Disappearance and murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

The mystery surrounding a double murder continues over a month after the bodies of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, were found. </p><p><strong>MORE </strong>| <a…

www.wrtv.com

JMO

That timing makes sense to me and may have contributed to RA maintaining his cover for so long. JMO.

 

[Teche]

Hi Welcome to the forum. Thank you for joining and for posting in Abbey and Libby’s case thread. I’m also Scottish.

The law related to DNA sample collection when investigating a crime is a much stricter in Indiana and in the U.S than it is in the UK. People who are arrested in Indiana for a felony crime were not legally required to provide a DNA sample so that the sample could be submitted to the DNA database until it became law in the State in January 2018, almost a year after the murders of Abbey and Libby. It would be very difficult to get consent from all the men in the area to willingly provide DNA samples when there is no indication that any of them have any involvement in a murder case. Unfortunately there is a massive backlog of DNA samples waiting to be tested for serious offences in Indiana and in States across the U.S.

In recent years Law enforcement have been turning to genealogy websites to see if they can find family members who have DNA profiles related to samples collected in crime scenes. This has been useful in helping to find perpetrators involved in serious crimes who have no prior arrests or DNA samples taken by law enforcement

Good to see you posting.

 

[flashy09]

Per Carter on the live: sketches were not a mistake. He was convinced they could be used together.

Carter feels the arrest affidavit will be released. Not much else on the live.

I don't mean to second guess LE that obviously knows way more than I do, but from a general public perspective I wish a bit more information could have been given. It seems a waste to give a very dramatic, very effective PC with finally more video released and more audio and all the talk about living or working in Delphi and hiding in plain sight... and maybe even being in the room! No doubt locals were back to staring at every male, trying to hear the voice, and now wanting to see a walk. Except what popped out was a frat boy with shampoo ad quality hair.

It also wasn't said to use the sketches together. They didn't put the two sketches up next to each other and at that crucial moment of renewed interest OBG felt done. It was just YBG and the age range went to 18. I bet the tip line got so many useless tips.

Maybe I will understand on Nov 22, but right now I really don't!

 

[Prime8]

I was just doing some timeline review. Basically, if RA talked to a DNR officer it was between 5:30 pm and midnight on the 13th.

DELPHI TIMELINE: Disappearance and murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

The mystery surrounding a double murder continues over a month after the bodies of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, were found. </p><p><strong>MORE </strong>| <a…

www.wrtv.com

JMO

<modsnip - personalizing> This timeline mentions that the DNR was there on the 13th but just because they were not mentioned after that on this timeline, doesn't mean they weren't there. The timeline doesn't mention every person that was involved in the search or in keeping a perimeter after they were found or even if they had a larger prescense there once the crime scene was cleared. We also don't know if the conservation officer was on or off duty. <modsnip - telling others how to post>

 

[CSIDreamer]

<modsnip - personalizing> This timeline mentions that the DNR was there on the 13th but just because they were not mentioned after that on this timeline, doesn't mean they weren't there. The timeline doesn't mention every person that was involved in the search or in keeping a perimeter after they were found or even if they had a larger prescense there once the crime scene was cleared. We also don't know if the conservation officer was on or off duty. <modsnip - telling others how to post>

1. I stated I was speculating.

2. It's not that easy to find a DNR conservation officer and start a conversation. This link states right after the murders. I'm fairly literal, and this doesn't say the next day or days later.

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8...

www.wishtv.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

RA becomes obsessive about the case which leads into what Carter said at the 'new direction' press conference in 2019. Very possible he starts using drugs/alcohol/etc. to cope.
He 'wants to know what LE knows' (remember that quote?) but over time when police don't question him or seemingly don't know he exists, he relaxes.

^rsbm

I remember that quote. I would love to know why DC said “you want to know what we know” at the PC. At the time, I thought it might just be part of the language strategy choreographed by the FBI.

Now we have heard that he spoke to a conservation officer, I wonder if RA may have reached back out to this officer, or another friend of his in LE, to check on the investigation. And finally, someone’s eyes popped open and made the connection, putting RA back on the radar. But LE needed that “one tip”, to break his alibi, or locate a weapon or item that definitively tied him to the crime scene. They released an additional word “guys” to the DTH audio. They said “we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you”.

I recognize the above theory doesn’t match up with RA‘s name having just cropped up again to LE recently. It would mean they were on to him back in 2019, and that the change of direction was looking towards him. We just didn’t know it at the time, as it wasn’t geared toward the public, but toward someone who knew RA personally.

jmo