Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[mrjitty]

On the Down the Hill podcast Robert Ives discussed how difficult the technological aspects of this case had been (leading me to think that LE’s ignorance of technology was the main problem getting this solved JMO)

One point Ives made was that everyone assumed they could get all cell tower records just by demanding them or whatever, but that’s not how warrants work! LE has to be clear & targeted about what they’re looking for & why they think it will be there.

They can’t get a warrant for all nearby cell tower data - that would be like having a warrant that everyone who lives within 5 miles of the crime needs to throw open their front door & LE will walk by & peer in.

My understanding is that usually they can get the general tower data - this has come up in a lot of different cases - but i don't know the law specifically in this state

So basically the general tower connection data is not regarded as your personal info, as compared to needing to get a warrant for your personal customer records....

 

[mrjitty]

IMO the witness must have been close to BG to make a comment on the colour of his eyes. My husband and I just went outside and I could plainly see that he had blue eyes from a distance of about 5'. I definitely wouldn't have been able to say what colour they were if they were either hazel or brown.

I wonder if the witness saw him again and recognised him?

 

[TL4S]

Yeah same here! the whole conservation officer story is just bizarre!

As to whether RA talked to this officer on the 13th, I also read that date as ref to the girls’ murder rather than RA’s tipping himself in… cuz on the 13th the girls were merely “missing.” If the date given was meant to fix RA’s appearance in the crime timeline, it wouldn’t really be accurate to phrase it as it was. Imo

But then on the other hand if RA tipped himself in while the girls were missing but before they were found - much easier to imagine LE paying little attention & just letting him go! They didn’t even know for sure they had a crime yet so weren’t looking for a perp.
JMO

Thanks to @Ontario Mom's helpful grammar reminder, I'm now second guessing how I originally interpreted the I-Team 8's paragraph about RA going to a CO on the 13th. I found an article from Feb. 14, 2017:
2 bodies found during search for teen girls
A search party comprised of local police, sheriff's deputies, firefighters and DNR officers was formed to canvass the area where the girls were last seen. At Tuesday's press conference, Riley said the search was "scaled back."

Unless I-Team 8 clarifies their writing, I'm not sure we can determine when RA talked to the CO (who I would assume to be one of the DNR (Dept of Natural Resources) officers listed above). We don't know when the DNR might have become involved in the search, either.

IMO, there are three windows of time RA could have talked to the CO:

1. RA talked to the CO during the search, any time between 5:30pm on the 13th, through 12:15pm on the 14th (or thereabouts).
2. RA talked to the CO after the search (maybe the DNR was helping with security on the trails during the CS investigation), but before the bodies were identified and the photo of BG was released.
3. RA talked to the CO after the photo of BG was released.

My guess is number 1, because I think the heaviest CO presence would have been during the search, and since I believe witnesses saw RA on the trail, that means he likely knew he had been seen, so I don't think he would have come forward after the photo was released. JMO, which is subject to change.

 

[MissUnderstood]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that KAK keeps popping up in regard to this case. I’m not convinced he was a part of the murders, but I think he had info after the crime. Either through shared stories or pics on some creepy pedo website. These sick minded people seem to gravitate toward each other. Moo

 

[Elley Mae]

The police source also confirms that the recent five-week state police search of the Wabash River in Peru was connected to the Delphi investigation.

It was initiated after Kegan Kline told police they would find a cell phone and weapon in the river, the source tells I-Team 8.

Kline, 28, a figure linked to the Delphi murders who has not been charged in the case, revealed that information while being questioned about the deaths of Libby and Abby.

That evidence was never found and Kline is known for lying to investigators.

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8...

www.wishtv.com

 

[JudgeJudi]

Those are all photos of brown eyes. Or light brown eyes if you will. "Hazel eyes" is just an affectation by someone who wants to be different. IMO.

No, they're not all brown and not an affectation.

Brown Eyes vs. Hazel Eyes: What Makes Them So Special? | NVISION Eye Centers

 

[JudgeJudi]

LOL - I love the way you rope your husband in JJ!

Was it you who recreated part of the Pistorius crime scene with hubby?

Hahaha, yep. He had to put a ladder to the gabled garage roof so I could climb to the highest point and toss jeans onto the ground, moved bedroom furniture to test the blue light and timed me running around the house with a stopwatch.

 

[Trebor5591]

No, they're not all brown and not an affectation.

Brown Eyes vs. Hazel Eyes: What Makes Them So Special? | NVISION Eye Centers

thank you. Brown and hazel eyes still seems pretty darn close to me though!

 

[Elley Mae]

I’ll say this about “hazel” eyes, had a boyfriend who had hazel eyes until he wore a blue shirt/jacket, then his eyes were blue.

Just sayin.

 

[Elley Mae]

The sketch released on Monday was drawn by Bryant on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant.

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

Police released new evidence in the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana.

www.indystar.com

…

I think RA came forward because of the this witness. Even though the sketch was held back till 2019 I feel that what ever it was that the witness felt had to be reported RA knew the witness saw what ever it was, and placed his self there to cover his tracks.

When the sketch that was released first he was probably relieved.

Jmo

 

[SMK777]

If RA’s statement to the CO was after the 13th, I don’t understand his motivation for inserting himself into the narrative.

The only thing I can think of is that he feared he’d been seen, or that he’d left shoe prints, and he was being preemptively self-protective. (ie, “oh, yeah, that was the nice guy who came forward to let us know he was there”.)

 

[SMK777]

But then on the other hand if RA tipped himself in while the girls were missing but before they were found - much easier to imagine LE paying little attention & just letting him go! They didn’t even know for sure they had a crime yet so weren’t looking for a perp.

That may have been his motivation for coming forward so quickly. Who wants to come forward during a homicide investigation?

 

[Prime8]

IIRC the individual who was part of the search party that found the girls has never been named.

I surely hope it wasn’t him.

Jmo

The person hasn’t been named but the people in the search party that found them have referred to in a number of interviews. The parties that were in that area were not random. They consisted of close family/friends and at least one firefighter and I’m assuming other professionals since that’s where they deduced the girls were last seen.

 

[LeBlack]

I cant stop looking at this side by side comparison. I just can't.

The same reason he "looks like OBG" "looks like YBG" "looks like them together" "doesn't look like either" is the same reason sketches are the way they are. Everyone has varying capabilities to describe to a sketch artist. IMO.

Here is a description from Profiler Pat Brown start at 15:50 and go for 2-3 minutes.

 

[TL4S]

The same reason he "looks like OBG" "looks like YBG" "looks like them together" "doesn't look like either" is the same reason sketches are the way they are. Everyone has varying capabilities to describe to a sketch artist. IMO.

Here is a description from Profiler Pat Brown start at 15:50 and go for 2-3 minutes.

Yeah. And at various times, many people were convinced the sketches belonged to CE, DN, JBC, KAK, a-shots male model, etc. When we have a face to go with it, we can easily see who we want to see because certain features might be similar. JMO.

 

[Prime8]

Jumping in with the sketches...

• DC has always said he thought the two sketches could be combined
  • Others have not - I believe there was maybe some disagreement about the sketches/witnesses and that's why it's always been a mess
• Sketches are not evidence, they are used to generate tips
• Sketches are a person(s) interpretation of what they remember seeing
  • Memories are not great in the best of times, the witnesses here likely saw BG, a stranger, only briefly, it was basically uneventful to them at the time
    • Keep in mind that even if a witness thought BG was creepy, how many creepy people do you encounter in a week? Keep in mind that the number of creeps encountered in a week is going to much higher for women, POC, or any other group that is often marginalized
  • Our memory fills in the blanks, some witnesses will have more blanks than others

 

[LeBlack]

thank you. Brown and hazel eyes still seems pretty darn close to me though!

It's not to people who have family members with hazel eyes - the people that you want to recognize and report on your suspect.

In my experience. MOO

 

[lgh0309]

Without looking it up, can you name these four famous serial killers by their composite sketches?

View attachment 380021View attachment 380022View attachment 380023View attachment 380024

Jumping in with the sketches...

• DC has always said he thought the two sketches could be combined
  • Others have not - I believe there was maybe some disagreement about the sketches/witnesses and that's why it's always been a mess
• Sketches are not evidence, they are used to generate tips
• Sketches are a person(s) interpretation of what they remember seeing
  • Memories are not great in the best of times, the witnesses here likely saw BG, a stranger, only briefly, it was basically uneventful to them at the time
    • Keep in mind that even if a witness thought BG was creepy, how many creepy people do you encounter in a week? Keep in mind that the number of creeps encountered in a week is going to much higher for women, POC, or any other group that is often marginalized
  • Our memory fills in the blanks, some witnesses will have more blanks than others

they shouldn’t be evidence, but are in a super dangerous way because they influence the witnesses’ “memories” and can cause them to choose the wrong person later and even misidentify them in court. many people have been wrongfully convicted in cases where the issues originate with bad sketches.

 

[Prime8]

they shouldn’t be evidence, but are in a super dangerous way because they influence the witnesses’ “memories” and can cause them to choose the wrong person later and even misidentify them in court. many people have been wrongfully convicted in cases where the issues originate with bad sketches.

Agreed, I would be very surprised if the prosecution utilizes the BG witnesses at all. It's just been so long and those sketches have probably warped their memory even more.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Looks like Doug Carter no longer thinks the court documents need to be sealed.

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

“At this point, Superintendent Carter believes releasing the documents would not jeopardize the case.

WIBC host Jason Hammer asked, “if that is allowed to be given to the public, is that going to compromise the case in any way?”

“No, I don’t think at this point it will,” responds Carter, “and I think it will answer a lot of the questions that people have.

“Will we find out how we got to this point with that information?” asks Hammer.

“We will, yeah. It’ll be much clearer,” responds Carter.”