ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #4

[Janitor101]

Good post and I couldn't agree more!!!! The reason I began entertaining the idea of this type of potential suspect, is that we are almost a week out without an arrest or even a viable suspect. So, LE has to begin thinking outside the box at a possible stranger/opportunist/stalker situation which is always a nightmare for LE.

For some reason , I've been thinking that the male victim is the one who was not murdered in his bed. I think he left the bedroom to investigate a noise and was confronted by the attacker in a hallway? Then he confronted the girlfriend. I could be 100% wrong too...lol.

 

[liona]

In using this type of knife would the killer hand likely slip on the knife cutting the killers own hand? I guess that is common in knife murders killers hand slipping down the blade and cutting himself. Leaving there own DNA. I guess it sounds like they all had a single stab would to the chest is that correct? Guess slippage is more common with someone who is awake and fighting back

I mean of course it could and I believe every knife could actually just because of the amount of blood. I have to say though, from experience, a dull knife is more likely to slip under normal conditions. I have cut myself more with dull knives than sharp because they slip instead of cut. But the difference is I use sharp knives to carve wood.

 

[Emj]

They may not know, but have ruled out an Uber employee. As said above, surveillance video would likely show something, a food truck witness like hoodie guy certainly saw the car, and whoever Caylee was texting at the food truck appeared to be the ride home. imo.

Uber rules out an Uber driver for them. As quoted above, an Uber spokesperson confirmed they did not have a ride logged. PD specifically uses “private party” and not “ride service” - so I’m guessing that means they also ruled out Lyft.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268898017.html

Some new information: Time of the murders estimated between 2 and 5 AM (not 3 to 4 AM as the a mayor initially stated).

Also says that Ethan’s mom said that the roommates heard something but didn’t go into detail as to what that might be.

 

[KPO]

How does LE know that a Ka-Bar knife was used? They went to local stores to see if they carried those specifically and/or had sold one.

Is it possible that the killer left the sheath behind? They were investigating the potential weapon before the autopsies were even done.

 

[Blue_Painting]

I know there have been questions of the time gap of X/E from the party and where they went afterwards. Could it be a possibility they just went home?? Maybe they were already there and in bed with K/M got home. Didn't X's dad say he talked to her at midnight?

Most recent Facebook update from Moscow police says

"Investigators have determined that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were seen at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road. It was previously reported that Ethan resided at the home; however, it has been determined that he was only visiting."

Not sure if we can post Facebook links.

 

[layer]

This would explain why everyone in the 2nd and 3rd floors were murdered, perhaps he didn't know about the stairs going down to the 1st floor.

Again... there is reporting that the two survivors were on the top floor.

It has also been confirmed that two roommates, BF and DM, were upstairs at the time of the murders, although cops have said neither is under investigation and the surviving friends have been cooperating with the investigation.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

No carotid artery cut. Mortal blow to the upper torso was stated by coroner.

OK --Mortal Blow to upper chest.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268898017.html

Some new information: Time of the murders estimated between 2 and 5 AM (not 3 to 4 AM as the a mayor initially stated).

Also says that Ethan’s mom said that the roommates heard something but didn’t go into detail as to what that might be.

Interesting. That is concerning. How could they be asleep by 2 when according to LE’s timeline got home at 1:45.

I’m really starting to wonder if there was something used to get them to sleep?

quoting the timeline so it can be updated.

***UPDATED NOV 17, NEW INFO IN RED***

VICTIMS:
EC = Ethan Chapin [IG / FB], a 20-year-old from Conway, Washington [1]; freshman, member of Sigma Chi fraternity majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management in the College of Education, Health and Human Sciences. [7]; school indicates hometown was Mount Vernon, WA [9]; one of triplets that all attended UofI[36]; staying overnight with his girlfriend XK [39] "lived with" XK according to XK's family [56]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15

XK = Xana Kernodle [IG / TikTok / FB], 20, from Avondale, Arizona [1]; junior from Post Falls majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; dating EC, worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]

MM = Madison Mogen [IG / TikTok / FB], a 21-year-old from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of the Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]; planned to move to Boise after graduation in spring [53]

KG = Kaylee Goncalves [IG / TikTok / FB], 21, from Rathdrum, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in general studies in the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences, member of the Alpha Phi sorority [7]; middle of five children, owner of a dog named Murphy [31], was going to start a new tech job in TX in Jan [36]; had recently purchased a 2016 Range Rover; planned to travel to Europe next year [53]
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15 | NOV 16

ZILLOW DESCRIPTION/PICS OF RESIDENCE
RESIDENCE PICS FROM MEDIA:
View attachment 380501
View attachment 380502


TIMELINE

~LATE 2021 ("about a year, give or take")
EC and XK begin relationship [56]

AUG 16
MM posts a "meet the roommates" image on IG [12]

AUG 22
MM posts a "first day of school" image on IG [11]

SEP 12
POSSIBLY UNRELATED: man threatened students on UofI campus with a knife [35]; students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47]

OCT 29
XK's final IG post, wishing EC a happy birthday [13]

F NOV 11

• MM's final IG post [10]
• KG's final texts with her sister [31]

Sa NOV 12

• KG's final IG post w roommates [15]
• EC attends a dance at his sister's sorority as her date; his other triplet brother went with his sister's roommate [53]
• PM - neighbors hear loud music from somewhere "in the neighborhood"; did NOT hear screaming or gunshots [33]
• PM - neighbors report "hearing noise from the house Saturday evening but said it sounded like a party rather than an altercation." [40]; Rumor debunked: Moscow PD states there is no indication of party at the residence [47]
• ~12PM - XK last contact with family [56]

Su NOV 13 - DEATH OF VICTIMS, BODIES DISCOVERED
day 1 of investigation at residence

• [TIME?] - MM & KG took Uber to get food [43@0:45]
• 1:33AM - 1:53AM [41] - MM & KG seen on Twitch video from Grub Truck food truck [38], where they order pasta; manager states they were "slightly intoxicated" [41] - VIDEO from Gray Hughes Investigates
• after 1:45AM - EC & XK arrived home from a party; MM & KG arrived home from a bar [47]; MM & KG took Uber home, let dog out, locked house up [43@0:45]
• ISP stated (cf Nov 17) that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55]
• 3AM-4AM - Estimated time of death [9]
• 11:58AM [20] - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30]); according to EC's mother, bodies were found by "a friend" [32] who does not live in the house [39]; fire and EMS also on scene but did not go into residence [1]; First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]
• ~12PM - coroner informed of 4 homicides [45@0:15]
• 2:16 PM - UofI FB post advises students to shelter in place due to investigation of homicide on King St [3]
• 2:51 PM - UofI FB post lifts shelter-in-place, states that LE are still investigating death of 4 people but do not believe there is an active threat [4]
• ~5PM - 5:30PM - coroner arrives on scene [45@0:30]
• 5:25PM - UofI FB post states that LE is still investigating, but there is no ongoing threat [5]
• 9:17 PM - University president posts on FB about deaths, cancels class for M Nov 14, offers counseling resources [6]
• PM - neighbors state they saw police, "group of women crying while draped in emergency blankets" [33]

M NOV 14 - DECLARED A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION
day 2 of investigation at residence

• online and in-person classes at University canceled [1]
  
  
• [TIME?] LE questioned manager of Moscow Building Supply about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, which they do not [44]
• 12:50 PM - MSM reports that 4 students found dead near campus [1]
• 12:21 PM - UofI FB posts identities of victims [7], states "Moscow police do not believe there is an ongoing community risk based on information gathered during the preliminary investigation" [8]
• 1:31 PM - search dogs at scene [29]
• 1:49 PM - MSM reports that it is being treated as homicide investigation [2]
• PM - Rumor debunked: LE verifies that none of the deceased students are believed to be responsible for the deaths. [9], Rumor debunked: county coroner verifies it was NOT a murder-suicide [17]
• 5:56PM - Mayor refuses to confirm NYT's "crime of passion" description [21], states it is one possibility [32]
• PM - media tries to canvas neighbors, who decline to make a comment, "most" stating that they didn't really know the victims; state that police had previously canvassed neighborhood as well [32]

Tu NOV 15 - PRELIMINARY CAUSE OF DEATH RELEASED: STABBING
day 3 of investigation at residence

• Moscow PD release statement - "Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack." [16]
• Some students, feeling unsafe, leave early for Thanksgiving break [18]
• Coroner calls the scene "gruesome" [34] (comment possibly taken out of context[see 45@3:45]); does not believe toxicology report will be relevant [45@3:00]; did not know timeframe of death [45@3:00]; declines to comment on where bodies were found [45@4:20]
• DailyMail (TABLOID) posts image they claim is blood "oozing" out of residence; state that scene was "the worst [police] had ever seen; "there was blood everywhere;" "have never seen anything like this"; trash taken to garbage depot [36]
• KG's family interview states that door had a keypad code [42@1:45]
  
  
• 8:36AM - vigil postponed until after Thanksgiving [28] - cf W Nov 16
• 11:24AM - LE press release states they are still searching for "an edged weapon such as a knife" that was used in attack [27]
• 2:07PM - LE stop garbage truck from leaving residence, as they have not recovered weapon [26]
• 2:40PM - bodies in Spokane County, autopsies to take place on Wed; preliminary findings show stabbing as cause of death; "a lot of blood;" [25] Rumor debunked: no indication of substance use [25]
• 4:25PM - confirmed that FBI is working with local LE [19]
• 6:36PM - county prosecutor states there is a sealed warrant issued at residence; "a handful of other warrants" in the works [24]
• 7:11PM - Families of MM & KG release statement calling for justice [23]

W NOV 16 - PRESS CONFERENCE
day 4 of investigation at residence

• AM - Video shared online of MM & KG at Grub Truck food truck [38] - cf Su NOV 13
• Parents speak out against LE & school for "lack of information [40]
• Manager of Moscow Building Supply states that LE questioned them "more than once" about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, including on M Nov 14; he states they do not [44] - cf M NOV 14
  
  
• 3:30PM - news conference planned by ISP & Moscow PD [22] - transcribed by @Allabouttrial HERE
  
  • Moscow PD chief speaks
    
    • victims arrived home after 1:45 AM from party (EC & XK) and bar (MM & KG) [47] - cf Su Nov 13
    • no sign of forced entry - no damage to anything; door was open when LE arrived [47]
    • autopsies taking place today [47]
    • reviewing crime scene evidence, video, etc [47]
    • do not have a suspect, weapon, or clothing of suspect at this time - cannot say there is no threat to community [47]
    • Rumor debunked: no indication of party at the residence [47] - cf Sa Nov 12
    • there were ("we believe 2") other people (roommates) home at the time of the attack; was not a hostage situation and were not injured; they were present at residence when LE arrived; declines to comment on what they have stated [47]
    • declines to comment on who the 911 caller was [47]
    • has not identified anything missing/stolen from the residence [47]
    • declines to comment on location of bodies within the residence [47]
    • Sep 12 incident - students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47] - cf Sep 12
• 5PM - vigil held in Coeur d' Alene, ID [46]
• 5PM - vigil planned on University's Administration Lawn [9] - vigil postponed as of T NOV 15 [28] rescheduled to NOV 30 [34]

TH NOV 17 - AUTOPSY PERFORMED & CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH CONFIRMED
day 5 of investigation at residence

• Rumor debunked: KTVB reporter verifies that there have been no record of KG calling police between Jan1-Nov13 [48]
• ISP patrolling near Moscow schools Th & Fri; "no need to be alarmed" [49]
• increased LE activity noted at residence; increased number of tips coming in [50]; LE confirms they are canvassing area for fixed-blade weapon purchases [48]
• phones of victims still being held as evidence [53]
• KG's dog Murphy has been returned to secondary owner [54]
• ISP stated that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55] - cf Su Nov 13
  
  
• [TIME?] autopsies completed and bodies released to victims' families [51]
• PM - coroner's report released confirming official cause of death: homicide-murder / manner of death: stabbing with "large knife"; DNA samples (including those on "bedding") still being tested; some wounds may have been defensive [52] - cf [56 & 57]
• PM - family states XK had "bruises, torn by the knife" that would indicate that she fought back [56] - cf [52 & 57]
• PM - other source cites same coroner stating that "They have not yet determined whether there were defensive wounds"; each victim stabbed multiple times; no indication of sexual assault [57] - cf [52 & 56]

SOURCES:
[1] 4 University of Idaho students found dead near campus - 6ABC - Nov 14
[2] Four university students found dead near campus - MirrorUK - Nov 14
[3] UofI FB - Nov 13
[4] UofI FB - Nov 13
[5] UofI FB - Nov 13
[6] UofI FB - Nov 13
[7] UofI FB - Nov 14
[8] UofI FB - Nov 14
[9] 4 Slain University of Idaho students are victims - ElkoDaily - Nov 14
[10] MM Instagram - Nov 11
[11] MM Instagram - Aug 22
[12] MM Instagram - Aug 16
[13] XK Instagram - Oct 29
[14] EC Instagram - May 13
[15] KG Instagram - Nov 12
[16] Moscow PD - Nov 15
[17] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 14
[18] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[19] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 15
[20] Four university of Idaho Students discovered dead - Law&Crime - Nov 15
[21] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 14
[22] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 16
[23] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[24] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[25] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[26] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[27] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[28] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[29] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 14
[30] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet - Nov 15
[31] Family of alleged Moscow homicide victim remembers - Nov 14
[32] Suspect sought in U of I deaths - Idaho Statesman - Nov 15
[33] Four U of I students died in senseless act of violence - LM Tribute - Nov 14
[34] Homicide investigation underway - KHQ - Nov 15
[35] Man reportedly threatened students with knife - ISJ - Sep 15
[36] Blood oozes through walls of home - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 15
[37] University of Idaho homicide victims - FoxNews - Nov 15
[38] @johnwebbtv (KHQ-TV) - Nov 16
[39] 4 Idaho students killed in 'targeted attack' - ABCNews - Nov 16
[40] Slain university of Idaho victims' parents frustrated - ABCNews - Nov 16
[41] Chilling video shows 2 of the 4 - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 16
[42] Extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves VIDEO - KHQ - Nov 15
[43] Idaho College Students murdered in 'Crime of Passion' VIDEO - Inside Edition - Nov 16
[44] Police investigation narrows to search for combat-style knife - Idaho Statesman - Nov 16
[45] Latah County Coroner says all four students killed near University of Idaho were victims - KREM - Nov 15
[46] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 16
[47] Moscow Police Dept Press Conference - Nov 16
[48] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet THREAD - Nov 17
[49] @AbbyDavisKTVB tweet - Nov 17
[50] @esterbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17
[51] Mystery surrounds stabbing deaths - WTOP - Nov 17
[52] Autopsies confirm cause of death for UofI students - DNews.com - Nov 17
[53] Slain Idaho students leave behind bright memories... - AP News - Nov 17
[54] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[55] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[56] She's a tough kid... - AZFamily - Nov 17
[57] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17

 

[late1]

Absolutely but when I heard the headlines that 4 college roommates were killed I immediately thought of Ted Bundy in Florida.
I'm not ready to think there's a serial killer on the loose just yet. But I can understand why the college kids feel unsafe, I would feel unsafe in that city at any age right now until we know more.
If targeted or a ex-friend did it.

Yep, as far as a killer still on the loose, I totally agree and understand why students or other residents would feel unsafe.

 

[MassGuy]

How does LE know that a Ka-Bar knife was used? They went to local stores to see if they carried those specifically and/or had sold one.

Is it possible that the killer left the sheath behind? They were investigating the potential weapon before the autopsies were even done.

That's very specific, especially considering there are numerous manufacturers of "combat style" knives.

If it's true they were in fact searching for that brand, then the sheath being found makes the most sense to me.

That would have been a massive mistake on the killer's part, as in addition to purchase records potentially helping the investigation, it would probably be a great source of touch DNA.

 

[Janitor101]

I agree. Unless this killer was very skilled with that knife, wouldn't the victim wake up and react at least briefly?

I'm thinking the male victim got out of bed to investigate a noise and was confronted by the attacker in a hallway and then attacked his girlfriend?

 

[layer]

The two living roommates were on the first floor.

Source?

 

[DizzyB]

It sure would make a lot of timeline sense if E&X picked up M&K and they were all back at 1:45ish as LE said. But it could also be a friend, an acquaintance, an Uber driver off the clock and running his own gig.

As far as who was on what floor, it’s all conflicting information. There is no definitive answer.

I believe it makes most sense if the survivors were on the bottom floor with the keypad door (possibly no entry or exit by the killer), X&E on the middle floor with possibly one or both not found in bed, with the sliding door the entry and exit by the killer. That leaves M&K on the top floor. The survivors could have woken up Sunday and left the house without ever going up to the kitchen or living room and not knowing that anything had happened.

 

[CityKid]

She did say that. In fact she says something to the effect of “they did everything right, …. used a trusted Uber”
….

Extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves, one of the Moscow homicide victims

This is an extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves, one of four University of Idaho students killed near the campus in Moscow. You can find our coverage on

www.khq.com

This just makes my heart sink for the parents. I did unsafe things when I was away at college (nothing beyond the usual miscreant stuff, lack of safe behavior stuff, during your first time living away from home) and my parents never knew. I feel terrible that the parents are finding out the door lock code was well known, it was party central etc.

 

[Blue_Painting]

It's interesting to me that the two roommates who were spared were also the ones who stayed home that night.

I wonder if all four of the victims were together at the bar after Ethan and Xana left the party, and some kind of incident or altercation occurred there? imo

 

[One Dog]

IMO:

The Killer is a societal outcast. He doesn’t date and doesn’t get invited to parties. The “Party House” has been a source of aggregation and rage for a long time. It is less than 150’ feet away. He would move … but for his one year lease.

The loud party laughter goes into the wee hours and cuts him three ways.
1.) It deprives him of sleep. (2.). It is a constant reminder that he is an outcast… no friends … no fun. (3.) Occasionally he catches a glimpse of the girls. He fantasizes about them. It is a love/hate thing.

The killer has a variety of knives including two Rambo knives, a bow with arrows and several guns. In his mind, he has killed the girls many times. His killing fantasy involves a knife because it is PERSONAL!

That night is louder than most. Finally, he falls asleep. Then, at 1:45am they come home and he is again wide awake. That’s it! He waits for their lights to go out, puts on his black ninja outfit, rubber gloves and slips outside. He is going to make them quiet … once and for all.

I have thought of this as well, maybe a neighbor? I would assume the police are interviewing all surrounding neighbors in the area.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Slain University of Idaho Student's Sister Is Searching for Her Killer Herself | Inside Edition
“At 2:26 a.m. Kaylee starts to call Jack. Kaylee calls Jack six times between 2:26 a.m. to 2:44 a.m., from 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m. And they are both never heard from again,” she says.

 

[Hippiechic]

Source?

that's the problem it's all been scrubbed. I can't find anything

 

[alaskanblue]

That threat assessment reminds me of Israel Keyes:

Israel Keyes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Question: Where did the 1:45 time , for all of them getting to the house, come from??
.......and how did the two young women leave the food area at 1:40 and get home at 1:45?

Good question, the Police made it sound like everyone arrived at exactly the same time...seems odd to me as well.