ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[PorcelainCoveredInTinFoil]

Yeah it may be notable that the killer operates after 3 am, but I don't think the numbers in and of themselves have any significance. In other words, I don't think the 3 am number holds any significance other than it happens to be a convenient and effective time for the killer.

That makes me wanna ponder what jobs have shifts ending around 1a-2a around that area? Possible habit for perp to get off work then go stalking about the area, maybe?

Idk. All jmo and pure speculation.

 

[Sundog]

It is not illegal for professors to hook up with students. At my university they gave up on even having a policy against it sometime in the 90s. It's just too big of a can of worms to try to interfere in adults' lives.

It may not be "illegal" but it is against the policy of most universities and faculty can be placed on leave, suspended, fired, etc. for these kinds of relationships with students. There have been a lot of lawsuits brought against universities by students because of this kind of behavior.

Most universities have brought back policies that disallow faculty and student personal relationships. At several universiites where I have worked, these policies state that such relationships have to be reported. For a faculty member, they have to be reported to their department chair; and for a staff member, to their supervisor. It applies to anyone who supervises another person, and being in a relationship with a person who gives you a grade, writes evaluations, ;provides references, approves promotions, etc.

A colleague of mine is a dean and her husband is a faculty member in her college (physics/astronomy). They have self-reported, as required, and someone else is assigned to evaluate his work (promotion, tenure, etc.), award research funding, and other funding and work-related perquisites. Faculty who have been in a relationship prior to a person attending the same university can self-report and be provided with a waiver from the policy, however the student would not be allowed to take a class with this faculty member or be evaluated by him/her.

We've had way too many lawsuits, so these relationships are not permitted.

 

[IBelieveall]

"Morning" could mean anything from 12:01 AM to 11:59 AM, so there is the potential that the dog was picked up before the murders occurred. However, someone who says they are local to Moscow responded to me in an earlier thread that Animal Control doesn't work nights or weekends. EDIT to clarify that since the 911 call was at 11:58 AM, it seems unlikely the dog was found AFTER police were aware of the crime scene. In that case, LE would have been the ones called on the weekend or after hours about a dog. This could have been the night before (while everyone was out and about at parties/bar), or it could have been during the night or morning. Where is the police log regarding this incident?? Is it possible someone reported or LE encountered a stray (and possibly bloody) animal Sunday morning before they were aware of the crime??

My head has been all over the place as far as theories go. But a few things that I've noticed that make me wonder.
-all of the victims Instagram have remained public. Except for Ethan.
-the 2 surviving roommates (understandably) switched their Instagram to private or deactivated their account. Ethan's surviving triplets also switched to private. So did the frat. Neither of the sororities all roommates belonged to did this.)
-Surving roommates and ethan's siblings were all on scene (roommates confirmed/siblings possibly per parents interview saying they "were there" depending on how you interpret) when police arrived.
-we've received little to no information on Ethan/Xana at or after the frat party.
-witnesses have come forward that saw Maddie & Kaylee and given interviews. We've seen them on camera, know who brought them home and when, etc).
-no one that saw Ethan or Xana that night have spoken publicly. The police have released 0 details on their night.

All of the above has me thinking E and/or X were the target. Something happened at that party involving E or X. Someone came to the house and confronted them while M & K we're still awake. Person got kicked out and yelled at/insulted by all 4 of them. Person left feeling slighted, possibly embarrassed/rejected because the girls piled on him, all on E's side. Went and got a weapon, came back when everyone was asleep to make them all pay.
- media and everyone else is focused on K & M. Police are feeding into that theory to keep the media/social media out of their investigation.
- fraternity holds the key, and Ethan's siblings and maybe even the 2 surviving roommates know there was an altercation. They are all MIA because they know the police are doing their thing. Frat is locked down on social, and their members, because when this comes out, the publicity for the frat will be a nightmare on a national level and they are getting their ducks in a row to combat the hellstorm of negative press that will be coming there way. What's worst for a fraternity than a hazing death? Admitting a sociopath that goes on to murder 4 Greek students. And maybe there were warning signs the frat ignored.

All just IMO and wild speculation. I just feel a little like we're being told to look left so we don't see what's happening to the right. JMO. I need to take a break from thinking about this tragedy. Hoping the families get answers soon.

This is very logical and one of the best speculations I have read. I thought it was strange that the media and family interviews were solely focusing on the 2 girls and not the couple. And we have heard nothing about their nightly timeline, too. I think you are spot on...going to dig into this!

 

[WildWest]

The phone calls were from K & M to K's long-time ex-BF, with whom she is said to have shared dog ownership. We have not been informed about the contents of those calls, except that in an interview with K's family discussing the calls, they mentioned she had messaged or left a message with the ex-BF reminding him that they shared custody of the dog. I don't think we can tell when that happened. The implication was that was part of the contents of those messages, but we are unsure how K's family would know that content unless the ex-BF (for whom they were expressing full support) might have let them see or listen to any messages. That is MOO, and we do not know why K's family would mention this. It is possible that those calls from K&M in the middle of the night had absolutely nothing to do with the dog and also possible they were all about the dog.

Thank you Sunny, that clears it up for me

 

[Sunny Texas]

Thank you! I guess I’ve led a sheltered life!

I'm sure terminology varies from place to place. Very common where I live.

 

[MCath]

So, let’s say that this is a targeted crime, like law enforcement have stated- and one or more of the students were the intended victim. How* would this person, ready with the knife to kill, know that the door of their target’s house would be left unlocked, and on this particular night? Even if a stranger followed them home from a bar and had that knife ready to go, the murders didn’t take place til the students were in bed and three o’ clock in the morning is a long time to be waiting for nothing if it turns out the door was locked. A front door would almost definitely be locked, but a back door could be out of sight out of mind- no guarantee though for it to be unlocked for the crime if this was an outside stalker. This occurred on a weekend so has anything been said as to whether friends/acquaintances were over at the house earlier in the day and someone could have unlocked the door from the inside so it would be ready to go? Or someone who was familiar enough with the house to know there was a dog that would need to be let out, so it would be more likely for the door to be unlatched?

 

[tstephens1981]

That makes me wanna ponder what jobs have shifts ending around 1a-2a around that area? Possible habit for perp to get off work then go stalking about the area, maybe?

Idk. All jmo and pure speculation.

Bartenders? Not sure what time is last call in ID but in UT it’s 1AM.

 

[hockeymom]

And in my 62 years, most of it spent in hillside homes, I have never once heard the lowest floor called a ‘walkout basement.’

It doesn’t really matter, unless it helps reinforce the idea that the killer might not have understood that the lowest floor was living space, rather than utility spa

I live in upstste NY. We have " walkout" basements.

 

[debirlfan]

One thing I wonder about is why J did not answer the phone. I'm not insinuating he is guilty of anything, but it just seems odd.

If she had a habit of crank calling in the middle of the night, he might have just ignored her.

 

[Sunny Texas]

This is very logical and one of the best speculations I have read. I thought it was strange that the media and family interviews were solely focusing on the 2 girls and not the couple. And we have heard nothing about their nightly timeline, too. I think you are spot on...going to dig into this!

This theory could have some merit, but bear in mind that sometimes profiles were already public or private, based on the desires of the individual. This could be based solely on whether the person was introverted or extraverted, cautious or free with their PII. Also, some family members have access to switch accounts to private and others might not. Some may hope the killer will follow or comment on social media, and that this will expose them. Others may hope keeping it public will cause the public to engage and report tips. Other families may just want to make everything private and "cocoon" together as they grieve. It's very possible that E&K and friends/family hung out together in someone's room playing games, watching movies, etc, which could explain why we don't have knowledge of any public sightings of them. LE may have advised some family members to keep certain social media content public or private. Not sure if we can tell either way whether that makes them more or less likely to have been targeted.

 

[accordn2me]

You may be interested to see the Moscow Police Log, November 13. 2022
Moscow Humane Society is near 2000 White Street
Looks like the dog is inquired about sometime in the evening EDIT: 17:30 is 5:30PM having been dropped off at the Humane Society.
The log seems to show a communication between police and the humane society to find the dog for someone. It aligns with what PD has said- that the dog was with Animal Control.
What it doesn’t say is where the dog was found.

22-M09911 Suspicious Person/Circumstance

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Here are the three calls that I see on the log:

22-M09911 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 2000 blk WHITE AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:30
Cad Comments:
Request assistance locating dog that was dropped off at shelter.
Officer responded. Computer report.

22-M09915 Stray Animals
Incident Address: 500 blk N VAN BUREN ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 19:08
Cad Comments:
Stray dog in custody. Officer responded. Report taken.

22-M09916 Animal Problem/Complaint
Incident Address: S MAIN ST; GRITMAN ER
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 19:52
Cad Comments:
RP reporting a dog that's been locked in a car for at least a few hours. Officer
responded. No report.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't know why peopl keep saying they have tons of evidence, The police said yesterday that they have 103 pieces of evidence. That;s not much at all.

All that is needed is the right bit that leads to something.

103 pieces of evidence seems quite a lot to me.

 

[Lazar86]

Talking about an attack targeted at ONE.

“‘Steve Goncalves told CNN: “I’ve been told it’s one, but then again, there’s the bigness like it’s purposely big.’”

Police believe only one of four student's murdered in 'worst crime ever seen' was ‘target’

The stabbing murder of four University of Idaho students has been described as one of the 'worst' that law enforcement have ever seen

www.google.com

what do you think he means by “purposely big?”

im assuming the use of "bigness" means the scope of the crime itself? i think its just a poorly worded (and im not knocking this person i would barely be able to string words together to make a coherent sentence) way of saying "there are murders every day but a quad homicide is much larger in the grand scheme of things" i could be way off base. while im making wild speculations lol i think "its purposely big" could be a clumsy way of saying that the crime was this large (killing 4 people rather than 1 or 2) for a reason...possibly to make a statement or an attempt to shock/terrify people. i dont think this was intended to be vague i think it was just an unclear statement from a distraught person.

 

[IBelieveall]

You may be interested to see the Moscow Police Log, November 13. 2022
Moscow Humane Society is near 2000 White Street
Looks like the dog is inquired about sometime in the evening EDIT: 17:30 is 5:30PM having been dropped off at the Humane Society.
The log seems to show a communication between police and the humane society to find the dog for someone. It aligns with what PD has said- that the dog was with Animal Control.
What it doesn’t say is where the dog was found.

22-M09911 Suspicious Person/Circumstance

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Also it is considered "suspicious person/circumstance" which seems strange and who exactly dropped dog off?

 

[OliviaNewtonJohnFan]

One thing I wonder about is why J did not answer the phone. I'm not insinuating he is guilty of anything, but it just seems odd.

A college kid keeping their ringer (and possibly even the vibrate function) off is one of the least odd things I can imagine. People use their phones during lectures (or to cheat on exams, quizzes, etc.) all the time and the last thing any of them want is for the phone to make noise.

Most college kids regularly check their phones to continue text threads, use the internet, or browse social media so the ring function provides less value in their everyday. I understand that a lot of older people always have their ringer on, but that couldn't be farther from the case for under-30s. It seems perfectly plausible to me that J was sleeping, thus not seeing the call notifications

 

[SUSAN ANN]

So, let’s say that this is a targeted crime, like law enforcement have stated- and one or more of the students were the intended victim. How* would this person, ready with the knife to kill, know that the door of their target’s house would be left unlocked, and on this particular night? Even if a stranger followed them home from a bar and had that knife ready to go, the murders didn’t take place til the students were in bed and three o’ clock in the morning is a long time to be waiting for nothing if it turns out the door was locked. A front door would almost definitely be locked, but a back door could be out of sight out of mind- no guarantee though for it to be unlocked for the crime if this was an outside stalker. This occurred on a weekend so has anything been said as to whether friends/acquaintances were over at the house earlier in the day and someone could have unlocked the door from the inside so it would be ready to go? Or someone who was familiar enough with the house to know there was a dog that would need to be let out, so it would be more likely for the door to be unlatched?

We won’t know until we know. Truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[ivyvanmad]

I read someone explaining about how this was an estimated time frame and that it could be off by an hour to 2. They went into great detail about the temperature of major body organs and how fast they will drop in degrees over time such as the liver and the process that examiners go through to help establish or determine a time frame. They said this was a suggested time but could be off. Hope this helps!

Thank you!

 

[LAhiker]

So, let’s say that this is a targeted crime, like law enforcement have stated- and one or more of the students were the intended victim. How* would this person, ready with the knife to kill, know that the door of their target’s house would be left unlocked, and on this particular night? Even if a stranger followed them home from a bar and had that knife ready to go, the murders didn’t take place til the students were in bed and three o’ clock in the morning is a long time to be waiting for nothing if it turns out the door was locked. A front door would almost definitely be locked, but a back door could be out of sight out of mind- no guarantee though for it to be unlocked for the crime if this was an outside stalker. This occurred on a weekend so has anything been said as to whether friends/acquaintances were over at the house earlier in the day and someone could have unlocked the door from the inside so it would be ready to go? Or someone who was familiar enough with the house to know there was a dog that would need to be let out, so it would be more likely for the door to be unlatched?

Good question. Could it be someone who knew that the patio door did not actually lock properly, and was only effectively locked when the bar stools were jammed in it? If so, a quick glance might've told the killer whether they could get in or not.

I may be missing something -- only started following this case recently -- but am wondering whether the dog barked or not. Is it thought that the dog went out before the killer came in, and therefore wasn't close enough to bark in warning? Or was everyone so deeply asleep that even if the dog barked, the victims & other housemates would not have noticed? If the killer did encounter the dog, could they have fed it to keep it quiet?

JMO

 

[tstephens1981]

This theory could have some merit, but bear in mind that sometimes profiles were already public or private, based on the desires of the individual. This could be based solely on whether the person was introverted or extraverted, cautious or free with their PII. Also, some family members have access to switch accounts to private and others might not. Some may hope the killer will follow or comment on social media, and that this will expose them. Others may hope keeping it public will cause the public to engage and report tips. Other families may just want to make everything private and "cocoon" together as they grieve. It's very possible that E&K and friends/family hung out together in someone's room playing games, watching movies, etc, which could explain why we don't have knowledge of any public sightings of them. LE may have advised some family members to keep certain social media content public or private. Not sure if we can tell either way whether that makes them more or less likely to have been targeted.

Very true. But if indeed E’s frat has gone dark on socials, it leaves me scratching my head a little. Especially if the sororities are still up. MOO

 

[Bnic84]

I don't know why peopl keep saying they have tons of evidence, The police said yesterday that they have 103 pieces of evidence. That;s not much at all.

Compared to what