WI - 10-year old charged as adult for shooting mother to death for refusal to buy VR headset - 12/3/22

[Lusitana]

How do you even raise/parent a child like this? This is so scary and sad.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

from what i have heard, you cant force anyone to get psych help until something happens. mental health care is broken in this nation.

This isn't true. People can be involuntarily committed if there is risk of imminent harm and they can be court-ordered into treatment if there is risk of harm with untreated illness. Most of those who are mentally ill do not meet the above criteria. Some do and there are safeguards for that (though some fall through the cracks).

But really, we need to stop equating all criminal behavior with mental illness. Yes, even 10 year olds can be criminals without being "mentally ill." The poster who said a 10-year-old brain can't comprehend consequences is correct. The brain of a child simply cannot reason. They know right from wrong. They know they'll get in trouble. They don't know the gravity of the consequences and the affect on the rest of their life. Add on to that a 10 year old who does something this heinous and all bets are off.

It would be interesting to know more about this child prior to this incident. Has he hurt animals? Has he hurt others? Does he show sympathy and/or empathy for anything? Based on what we know thus far, I doubt he has a psychotic disorder but I could be wrong.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

How do you even raise/parent a child like this? This is so scary and sad.

Lots of controversy in the mental health community on nature vs nurture in these types of things.

 

[renah]

This isn't true. People can be involuntarily committed if there is risk of imminent harm and they can be court-ordered into treatment if there is risk of harm with untreated illness. Most of those who are mentally ill do not meet the above criteria. Some do and there are safeguards for that (though some fall through the cracks).

But really, we need to stop equating all criminal behavior with mental illness. Yes, even 10 year olds can be criminals without being "mentally ill." The poster who said a 10-year-old brain can't comprehend consequences is correct. The brain of a child simply cannot reason. They know right from wrong. They know they'll get in trouble. They don't know the gravity of the consequences and the affect on the rest of their life. Add on to that a 10 year old who does something this heinous and all bets are off.

It would be interesting to know more about this child prior to this incident. Has he hurt animals? Has he hurt others? Does he show sympathy and/or empathy for anything? Based on what we know thus far, I doubt he has a psychotic disorder but I could be wrong.

Pretty sure I read in msm that, yes, this child was known to hurt animals. Wish I could find a link. (I'm not very sleuth-savvy)! Also I'm like 100% sure I read he was already receiving psychiatric services. Sorry I'm not able to link a source; no hard feelings if if mods remove.

 

[savagewoman]

Pretty sure I read in msm that, yes, this child was known to hurt animals. Wish I could find a link. (I'm not very sleuth-savvy)! Also I'm like 100% sure I read he was already receiving psychiatric services. Sorry I'm not able to link a source; no hard feelings if if mods remove.

Charged with homicide for the shooting death of his mother, a 10-year-old is being tried as an adult. Some legal experts say that's too young.

Snipped:
The boy's aunt said he had harmed a puppy the family used to own when he was just 4, causing his mother to get rid of the dog.

IMO
Long article but worth the read. Takes about his age and analysis of adult vs juvenile. And more details like...
"His mother had also set up cameras inside the home to monitor his behavior. "

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Charged with homicide for the shooting death of his mother, a 10-year-old is being tried as an adult. Some legal experts say that's too young.

Snipped:
The boy's aunt said he had harmed a puppy the family used to own when he was just 4, causing his mother to get rid of the dog.

IMO
Long article but worth the read. Takes about his age and analysis of adult vs juvenile. And more details like...
"His mother had also set up cameras inside the home to monitor his behavior. "

Usually, this is something different than a treatable mental illness, such as psychosis. We obviously don't have enough information to diagnose him but this type of behavior in general points to something called conduct disorder which often turns into antisocial personality disorder as they grow up. This type of disorder isn't something we can blame on the problems with our mental health system. We just don't have the know-how to treat this adequately or to prevent harm to others.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Usually, this is something different than a treatable mental illness, such as psychosis. We obviously don't have enough information to diagnose him but this type of behavior in general points to something called conduct disorder which often turns into antisocial personality disorder as they grow up. This type of disorder isn't something we can blame on the problems with our mental health system. We just don't have the know-how to treat this adequately or to prevent harm to others.

I did read that the family said the boys therapist had not long given him a disturbing diagnosis, but there has been no reference to what that diagnosis was.
I would wager it was a serious personality disorder as you mentioned, but that is purely MOO as a spectator.

I will try and find the msm link that references any diagnosis, but for now this is speculation and not fact on my part.

 

[Breezie]

How do you even raise/parent a child like this? This is so scary and sad.

When Your Child Is a Psychopath

The condition has long been considered untreatable. Experts can spot it in a child as young as 3 or 4. But a new clinical approach offers hope.

www.theatlantic.com

Good article that tries to answer that question

 

[Elley Mae]

The complaint says the boy's 26-year-old sister told detectives he has had "rage issues" all of his life and "five different imaginary people that talk to him."

A therapist previously gave the boy a "concerning diagnosis" and the mother had placed cameras inside the home to watch him, according to the complaint. Two weeks prior to the woman's murder, "someone had unplugged these cameras."

The sister also told detectives she learned that the morning after their mother's death, the boy logged onto their mother's Amazon account and ordered an Oculus Virtual Reality Headset.

The complaint says a family member also alleged that the boy would pick their puppy up by the tail and "swing the puppy around until it whined and howled in pain." This occurred when the boy was allegedly four-years-old.

10-year-old upset over VR headset fatally shoots mother; charged as an adult

A 10-year-old boy who shot and killed his mom is being charged as an adult. The boy was mad at his mom for waking him up early and not letting him have something on Amazon.

www.tmj4.com

 

[Elley Mae]

The sister told investigators that the next day after the fatal shooting, the boy logged onto his mother's Amazon account and ordered the headset.

She also told police her brother never cried or showed remorse after the shooting, but did say, "I'm really sorry for what happened. I'm sorry for killing my mom."

Then the sister says he asked if his Amazon package had arrived.

When police questioned the boy for the second time, the complaint stated he admitted that his mother would not allow him to have something he wanted from Amazon.

Prosecutors said he told them the night before he got his mother's set of keys for the gun lock.

"He went to the basement and took up a shooting stance. He admitted knowing that guns can kill people," the complaint states.

10-year-old boy charged with shooting and killing mother over virtual reality headset

The child has been charged as an adult

www.wisn.com

…

The boy’s aunt and sister said he never cried or showed remorse. They also said he logged into his mother’s Amazon account and ordered an Oculus Virtual Reality Headset the morning after she died. That same morning, he physically attacked his 7-year-old cousin.

Relatives said the boy has a history of disturbing behavior. When he was 4, he swung the family’s puppy around by its tail, the complaint says. Six months ago, family told police, the boy filled a balloon with a flammable liquid and set it on fire, causing an explosion that burned furniture and the carpet. Relatives recalled that when asked about that, the boy said he hears five imaginary people talking to him.

Charges: Wisconsin boy, 10, killed mom over VR headset

MILWAUKEE (AP) — A 10-year-old Milwaukee boy intentionally aimed a gun at his mother, then shot and killed her, because she would not buy him a virtual reality headset, prosecutors said.

apnews.com

…

I can not image having a child that you have to install cameras in your home.
Wonder what he told therapist for her to tell mother to install cameras.
…

 

[Elley Mae]

Shoots his mother in the face because he didn’t get his way, what will he do to anyone in public when he doesn’t get his way?

Dang his family went to police the next day with concerns he did it intentionally, sounds like they don’t want him there, I wouldn’t.

Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

The boy told police his mother was walking toward him, telling him to put the weapon down.

He told police, "I didn’t listen to her."

Charged with homicide for the shooting death of his mother, a 10-year-old is being tried as an adult. Some legal experts say that's too young.

As a 10-year-old Milwaukee boy accused of killing his mother makes his way through the court system, some legal experts and activists worry the boy is far too young to be tried as an adult, raising questions about state laws on the minimum age for juvenile court jurisdiction.

www.wpr.org

 

[Rolypolyoly]

The complaint says the boy's 26-year-old sister told detectives he has had "rage issues" all of his life and "five different imaginary people that talk to him."

A therapist previously gave the boy a "concerning diagnosis" and the mother had placed cameras inside the home to watch him, according to the complaint. Two weeks prior to the woman's murder, "someone had unplugged these cameras."

The sister also told detectives she learned that the morning after their mother's death, the boy logged onto their mother's Amazon account and ordered an Oculus Virtual Reality Headset.

The complaint says a family member also alleged that the boy would pick their puppy up by the tail and "swing the puppy around until it whined and howled in pain." This occurred when the boy was allegedly four-years-old.

10-year-old upset over VR headset fatally shoots mother; charged as an adult

A 10-year-old boy who shot and killed his mom is being charged as an adult. The boy was mad at his mom for waking him up early and not letting him have something on Amazon.

www.tmj4.com

The sister told investigators that the next day after the fatal shooting, the boy logged onto his mother's Amazon account and ordered the headset.

She also told police her brother never cried or showed remorse after the shooting, but did say, "I'm really sorry for what happened. I'm sorry for killing my mom."

Then the sister says he asked if his Amazon package had arrived.

When police questioned the boy for the second time, the complaint stated he admitted that his mother would not allow him to have something he wanted from Amazon.

Prosecutors said he told them the night before he got his mother's set of keys for the gun lock.

"He went to the basement and took up a shooting stance. He admitted knowing that guns can kill people," the complaint states.

10-year-old boy charged with shooting and killing mother over virtual reality headset

The child has been charged as an adult

www.wisn.com

…

The boy’s aunt and sister said he never cried or showed remorse. They also said he logged into his mother’s Amazon account and ordered an Oculus Virtual Reality Headset the morning after she died. That same morning, he physically attacked his 7-year-old cousin.

Relatives said the boy has a history of disturbing behavior. When he was 4, he swung the family’s puppy around by its tail, the complaint says. Six months ago, family told police, the boy filled a balloon with a flammable liquid and set it on fire, causing an explosion that burned furniture and the carpet. Relatives recalled that when asked about that, the boy said he hears five imaginary people talking to him.

Charges: Wisconsin boy, 10, killed mom over VR headset

MILWAUKEE (AP) — A 10-year-old Milwaukee boy intentionally aimed a gun at his mother, then shot and killed her, because she would not buy him a virtual reality headset, prosecutors said.

apnews.com

…

I can not image having a child that you gave to install cameras in your home.
Wonder what he told therapist for her to tell mother to install cameras.
…

Thanks Elley!.

I can't imagine how hard it must have been for his Mother to try to parent him. It sounds like she was doing her best to get him help, but she was out of her depth, as I know I would be too.

I still do not believe it is ok to charge him as an adult, possible psycho/sociopath or not, because he is a child and his brain is nowhere near grown.
The part in the articles where his lawyer says he only has around $100 dollars from his piggy bank for bond is so sad, and adds weight to his comprehension of long term consequences imo.

I do believe he does need to be housed in a secure psych facility, for everyone's safety, for however long it takes to see if there is any way to help him, and for him to one day be safe to be out in the world.
There's no easy, clear cut option here is there?

 

[rkendmar]

Thanks Elley!.

I can't imagine how hard it must have been for his Mother to try to parent him. It sounds like she was doing her best to get him help, but she was out of her depth, as I know I would be too.

I still do not believe it is ok to charge him as an adult, possible psycho/sociopath or not, because he is a child and his brain is nowhere near grown.
The part in the articles where his lawyer says he only has around $100 dollars from his piggy bank for bond is so sad, and adds weight to his comprehension of long term consequences imo.

I do believe he does need to be housed in a secure psych facility, for everyone's safety, for however long it takes to see if there is any way to help him, and for him to one day be safe to be out in the world.
There's no easy, clear cut option here is there?

Locating a secure treatment facility for violent children is almost impossible.
Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center in Madison, WI., has a capacity to treat 29 boys:

MMHI: Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center

Located in Madison, MJTC provides specialized treatment services to boys transferred from the Department of Corrections.

www.dhs.wisconsin.gov

 

[Elley Mae]

Locating a secure treatment facility for violent children is almost impossible.
Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center in Madison, WI., has a capacity to treat 29 boys:

MMHI: Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center

Located in Madison, MJTC provides specialized treatment services to boys transferred from the Department of Corrections.

www.dhs.wisconsin.gov

I remember this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/virginia-state-senator-injured-in-home-another-person-found-dead-inside/2013/11/19/3e419ac4-512c-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html

…

It is sad that those facilities have closed or are short on beds.

Needs to change.

 

[Fretgyrl]

I don't agree with this. A child doesn't understand the long term consequences of an impulsive decision. The "choice" to kill his mother because she didn't buy him a toy on Amazon was a "snapshot" of him, doing something impulsively. Same as stealing a toy from a store. Impulsive emotion, act. There is no space for thinking about consequences.

The real crime here, in my opinion, was allowing any type of access to a lethal weapon. If the mother wanted a gun in the home, it should have been secured in a gun safe, with a combination.

A He stole the keys to the gun safe the night before per news article posted on the previous page

 

[Lusitana]

Lots of controversy in the mental health community on nature vs nurture in these types of things.

Breaks my heart because sometimes the parents do everything right and it's still not enough.

 

[crussell821]

What are we even doing in this country when we are charging a 10 year old with what appears to be well-documented, long-term mental health issues as an adult?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Could it be that if they charge him as an adult, they can get him help they otherwise couldn't? Or to ensure he isn't released too early, before he's had the many years worth of help he clearly needs?

 

[AguaFlorida2001]

<modsnip>

Is it absolutely <modsnip> up that he did this to his mother? Yes, and he should face some sort of punitive action. <modsnip> He was 10 years old, trust me when I say a 10 year old acting this way did not have a normal childhood. I am not excusing his actions at all. AT all. But a variety of factors go into these sort of behaviors and I weep for the childhood he lost to his own illness.

Rest in peace to his poor mother, this is the worst possible way to go. She did not deserve this at all and I hope her soul rests easy. I pray that her loved ones find healing.

This is tragic all around and I hope the most painless route possible can be taken going forward.