ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[SteveP]

I respect differing opinions, as none of us knows who the killer is, and what he did, and we are all speculating, but I just cannot buy into all of the talk about Tyvek suits and "kill kits". Maybe I have not watched enough Lifetime crime movies or something. Many believe the killer must have been covered head to toe, and that is why he left no bloody prints or DNA behind, but we don't know that he didn't leave all of that behind. I think he very likely left DNA and other forensic evidence all over the place, either on the bed linens, on victims' bodies or clothes, or under a victim's nails, but I think we all know that there is also DNA of a very large number of other people in that house, and the killer's has to be plucked out of all of those, and then there must be something on file to match it to.

I believe the killer likely wore a cap and something covering his face, and may have worn gloves, (which he may have removed to hold knife better), all of which would appear normal if he was seen out on a cold November night. A heavy winter coat would also cover bloody clothes somwhat. I highly doubt every inch of his body was covered, and doubt he kept a kill kit by his side. (I'm not even sure what one would put in a kill kit, and am not about to google it). JMO

 

[OrlandoJames]

I still think it could be possible that he came to murder one, and was surprised to encounter one more, and then another two. Adrenaline took over, because it was do or die.

Possibly. But if that were the case, it would likely mean that the second set of victims disturbed him in the act and were trying to save the others. That would likely result in the bodies being found in close proximity, but that wasn't the case - the two sets of victims were killed in different rooms, possibly while they slept.

 

[sunshineray]

I tend to agree. Leaning towards they are working hard to nail down their case/quell any lingering doubts before making an arrest.

That said, we are talking about someone who brutally murdered 4 kids (I realize they are adults but I have children older than they are). I also can't imagine them "knowing" who did it and not locking them up immediately...

24/7 surveillance on a few could be ongoing, if they are suspect. I wonder if all the forensics have even been completed or if the complicated scene's evidence testing is still ongoing?

 

[Allabouttrial]

I respect differing opinions, as none of us knows who the killer is, and what he did, and we are all speculating, but I just cannot buy into all of the talk about Tyvek suits and "kill kits". I think some have watched way too many Lifetime crime movies or something. Many believe the killer must have been covered head to toe, and that is why he left no bloody footprints or DNA behind, but we don't know that he didn't leave all of that behind. I think he very likely left DNA and other forensic evidence behind, either on the bed linens, or under a victim's nails, but I think we all know that there is also DNA of a very large number of other people in that house, and the killer's has to be plucked out of all of those, and then there must be something to match it to.

I believe the killer likely wore a cap and something covering his face, and may have worn gloves, all of which would appear normal if he was seen out on a cold November night. I highly doubt every inch of his body was covered, and doubt he kept a kill kit by his side. (I'm not even sure what one would put in a kill kit, and am not about to google it). JMO

I googled for you Steve!

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Kill kit
A serial killer uses a kill kit to kill victims and to dispose of the bodies. A kill kit may be: (1) carried in a small case and contain seemingly innocuous items such as rope and a knife. (2) buried at a hidden location.

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More at the Link!!

ETA: Forgot to add the SS.

 

[sunshineray]

I’ve thought about the car a lot as well. It’s just so confusing for such a well planned attack.

Moo-

Could the car belong to someone they knew was out of town…

Could it belong to a grandparent who no longer drives and wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Could it belong to anyone who wouldn’t notice it missing at night.

Far fetched I know, as far as theories I’ve posted this may be one of my most unlikely.

But I knkw for me personally, I have two grandparents I could easily take their cars for a night, and return without them even noticing. So technically it could be possible.

Also I heard K’s parents mention in a recent interview they believe the car was possibly borrowed.

Not far-fetched at all, IMO.

 

[MrB327]

Funny you should say that. I've been sat here mulling this over! I just read what the Chief said in one of his brief updates on 8th Dec.

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Chief - So, we have information of a white vehicle that was in the area either, during the time frame of the homicide or around the time frame of the homicide, and we're just wanting to talk to the individuals who were in that vehicle.

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He's still set on the time of the murders. Why??. All the trials I've watched the ME has never definitely been able to give such a specific time of death as the Chief has. This was even before the ME had finished the autopsies.

I would think one of the victims would of had to of had some kind of smart watch to narrow that time frame down so precisely.

 

[SteveP]

I googled for you Steve!

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Kill kit
A serial killer uses a kill kit to kill victims and to dispose of the bodies. A kill kit may be: (1) carried in a small case and contain seemingly innocuous items such as rope and a knife. (2) buried at a hidden location.

---

More at the Link!!

ETA: Forgot to add the SS.

View attachment 389073

Somehow, I was expecting something more elaborate.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Somehow, I was expecting more...

Me too! Feels somehow a bit lack lustre.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, that’s quite possible. And that would mean it was not necessarily someone in the victims’ circle, but someone on the periphery— perhaps someone who they weren’t even thinking about anymore at that point.

Could explain why he hasn’t been caught: his name may not even have come up yet.

Long ago a guy asked me out, and when I politely declined, he became furious. Claiming that I had always been staring at him, smiling at him, purposely going by his desk at work. (No, I hadn't).

People can create a festering obsession based on a complete fantasy.

Some polite rejection, after a perceived "come on". Maybe in that bar, with weeks, maybe months of watching the girls after the 9pm switch in clientele. While she comes and goes with inferior (to the watcher), young geeky, puny, egg head college guys. Before everyone attacks me, I am looking thru the eyes, and possible perceptions of a local, rural guy, frustrated with his lack of success in charming college girls.

Ie like you say his name hasn't even come up yet, the "rejection" was so insignificant to the girl(s).

 

[Allabouttrial]

I would think one of the victims would of had to of had some kind of smart watch to narrow that time frame down so precisely.

Yeah that was my first thought when he originally said it happened between 3am - 4am.

 

[Which_pancake]

I respect differing opinions, as none of us knows who the killer is, and what he did, and we are all speculating, but I just cannot buy into all of the talk about Tyvek suits and "kill kits". Maybe I have not watched enough Lifetime crime movies or something. Many believe the killer must have been covered head to toe, and that is why he left no bloody prints or DNA behind, but we don't know that he didn't leave all of that behind. I think he very likely left DNA and other forensic evidence behind, either on the bed linens, or under a victim's nails, but I think we all know that there is also DNA of a very large number of other people in that house, and the killer's has to be plucked out of all of those, and then there must be something to match it to.

I believe the killer likely wore a cap and something covering his face, and may have worn gloves, (which he may have removed to hold knife better), all of which would appear normal if he was seen out on a cold November night. I highly doubt every inch of his body was covered, and doubt he kept a kill kit by his side. (I'm not even sure what one would put in a kill kit, and am not about to google it). JMO

ETA...I will say the thought of wearing baklava makes me chuckle. I may even have done that once or twice.

I think it's reasonable that the perp would have left some DNA behind...but if it didn't match anything in CODIS and they don't have anyone to compare it to, there is nothing they can do with it. Same with fingerprints, shoe prints, or heck - even a clear video of the suspect performing the act! (I don't think they have that, lol). That could be why they are so intent on finding the occupant(s) of the white car - to compare DNA and/or other evidence. MOO

 

[SteveP]

I would think one of the victims would of had to of had some kind of smart watch to narrow that time frame down so precisely.

If you look at Kaylee's Instagram account, there are several pics of her wearing one. Whether or not she wore it to bed is anyone's guess. Lots of people charge theirs overnight, but as she was apparently intoxicated when she got home, she may have had it on at the time of the murders.

 

[NuttMegg]

If you look at Kaylee's Instagram account, there are several pics of her wearing one. Whether or not she wore it to bed is anyone's guess. Lots of people charge theirs overnight, but as she was apparently intoxicated when she got home, she may have had it on at the time of the murders.

I wonder about the whole "intoxicated" line of thought. I watched the grub truck video, and the latest one. I just don't see them as " intoxicated". Having fun, laughing, just like everyone else.

Intoxicated, to me, means falling down, slurred speech, inability to count money and pay for a meal, not looking for a secure ride home.

I don't buy it, from what has been posted on this board.

They were drinking in a bar, they walked several blocks with a male friend in the cold to get food, stood around at the grub truck for quite awhile, interacted with the other kids, got a secure ride home, presumably ate their meal. Where do we see the intoxication?

 

[ACG2x]

Somehow, I was expecting more...

Didn't you watch this guy? He spelled out how it's done.

 

[pseudo_hum]

Ive followed all the threads from day one.. my hypothesis hasn’t changed from #18
The house layout
No sign of breakin
The Dog not barking
Four young people stabbed with a fix blade knife
The perp was quiet, knew his way around the house, killed quickly, left without a trace… Possibly in a white car and he managed to avoid cameras out of town
The perp was physically strong, focused and efficient..IMO..he has SAS or military training, it wasn’t personal, he had a job to do and he did it…. I’m going with a ‘hit job’ someone did it for money or because they owed someone else….

IMO, certainly possible. But in a house like that, college kids coming and going at all hours, it seems as if the perp knew how many were inside and the layout, at least somewhat. When I went to college, it was not unusual to find people on the floor sleeping, or anywhere else they could find. To randomly go in a house like that seems Ted Bundy like.

 

[ACG2x]

I wonder about the whole "intoxicated" line of thought. I watched the grub truck video, and the latest one. I just don't see them as " intoxicated". Having fun, laughing, just like everyone else.

Intoxicated, to me, means falling down, slurred speech, inability to count money and pay for a meal, not looking for a secure ride home.

I don't buy it, from what has been posted on this board.

They were drinking in a bar, they walked several blocks with a male friend in the cold to get food, stood around at the grub truck for quite awhile, interacted with the other kids, got a secure ride home, presumably ate their meal. Where do we see the intoxication?

To be fair, when Kaylee gives her order to the Grub Truck guy, she does slur her words saying "I'll have the...carbonarrrra". There's a noticeable pause between the words and she slurs the long 'r' in carbonara. The Grub Truck guy even said she seemed intoxicated.

Now given how they were acting in the rest of the video, I don't think they were falling down drunk, but were definitely under the influence of alcohol. But part of this could just be in nomenclature because I consider anyone who is not OK to drive a vehicle intoxicated in a legal sense. If she was falling down hammered, then I'd see the other things you noted.

So intoxicated = yes. Falling down hammered drunk = no, probably not.

 

[PrairieWind]

Congress passed a law that gave the FBI the framework to assist local LE with murders of 4 or more persons. The law defines serial killers (for this purpose,) but this publication from the FBI explains it in great detail.

Serial Murder | Federal Bureau of Investigation

www.fbi.gov

IOW, any time there is a murder of more than 4 people, the fbi can get involved.

No, that is not what that is about. That doesn't give FBI jurisdiction. It allows assistance (which could always be requested by local LE anyway). I think this was really about funding for that assistance.

 

[Veronica Sawyer]

I’m torn on LE’s hunt for the white car. A big part of me feels it will probably end up being yet another unrelated event in what has sadly become a string of dead ends. Yet on the flip side, I can’t help but wonder why the owner of said car hasn’t come forward. Surely they’ve seen or heard about the reports, right? And if it was a student who went home for thanksgiving break or whatever then there’s a good chance their parents might be tuned in to the news too.

/JMO

 

[tstephens1981]

LE did not release the videos. To my knowledge, they have not released any videos. The grub truck video was a publicly available twitch stream, and the "Adam" video was released by the camera's owner to Facebook then to Fox news. I agree that the videos don't really provide much.

Edit - LE did release the body cam videos, but it was due to FOIA requests, not because they thought it would provide helpful info for this case. IMO

I suspected as much- they ended up acknowledging them once they were in the public sphere. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[NuttMegg]

To be fair, when Kaylee gives her order to the Grub Truck guy, she does slur her words saying "I'll have the...carbonarrrra". There's a noticeable pause between the words and she slurs the long 'r' in carbonara. The Grub Truck guy even said she seemed intoxicated.

Now given how they were acting in the rest of the video, I don't think they were falling down drunk, but were definitely under the influence of alcohol. But part of this could just be in nomenclature because I consider anyone who is not OK to drive a vehicle intoxicated in a legal sense. If she was falling down hammered, then I'd see the other things you noted.

So intoxicated = yes. Falling down hammered drunk = no, probably not.

i almost never ask for links, especially for known knowns, but when did the grub truck guy say she seemed intoxicated?

I'll just have to leave it that intoxicated, to me, means something on an entirely different scale.