ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[The Observer]

Brian Entin w/ Criminologist Dr Casey Jordan

 

[layer]

Someone could be attacked in their sleep and still end up not in bed. Victim might have rolled out of bed trying to get away, attacker could have thrown first victim to the floor to make it easier to get yo the second person, etc.

Another possibility, less likely but possible - victims could have been posed in beds. Rolling did that.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

MSM is also guessing at how K and M were processing the alcohol they MAY have ingested. I agree with 10ofrods we should not assume they were under the influence or drunk or even tipsy until this is confirmed by authoritative sources or the autopsy. And IF they had alcohol in their systems, time had passed and food (maybe water) had been ingested by the time they put themselves to bed which would affect how one feels overall. JMO

Exactly, nothing has been verified by LE.

 

[debirlfan]

I’ve always used this quote when people have asked if all 4 were really asleep in their beds when attacked, and people have always come back at me by saying:

a. That the coroner later admits they were all asleep
and
b. Official reports say they were all asleep.

It’s frustrating, because it makes you wonder what prompted the coroner to make this correction at all, and it seems to indicate that the killer really did intend to kill all 4, and was not surprised by anyone who woke up — which sounds like a hired hit.

Or like someone who was mad at three of them. I believe E was killed first, as he was the biggest threat, and possibly the main target. After killing E and X, killer went looking for M, who he also had issues with. K just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Lillymac]

MSM is also guessing at how K and M were processing the alcohol they MAY have ingested. I agree with 10ofrods we should not assume they were under the influence or drunk or even tipsy until this is confirmed by authoritative sources or the autopsy. And IF they had alcohol in their systems, time had passed and food (maybe water) had been ingested by the time they put themselves to bed which would affect how one feels overall. JMO

Or even more alcohol. Plus do we know what alcohol was consumed at the bar... beer or hard liquor.

 

[debirlfan]

I don't think so, but geez, how could he/they be out of bed yet asleep? I can halfway buy that a corpse lying composed on a bed without any sign of movement could be termed "killed while asleep", but how could the coroner assess that in reverse? Someone dead, not found in their bed was killed while asleep?

You might be taking 'asleep' too literally. IMO, asleep in this case probably means attack begins while they're both asleep, but the second person in the bed wakes and fights back so technically not asleep but still in bed.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Dan Abrams Live - With Brian Entin filling in.

The police chief sure didn't go out of his way to provide assurances about the public's safety. It's a tricky line to walk, and I think he did the responsible thing given that LE may not have a suspect (or if they do, don't know where he is).

 

[Jakehansen1988]

Dan Abrams Live - With Brian Entin filling in.

LE: "this individual"

Interesting pivot from before when they've always stuck to plural and non plural descriptives of the perpetrator

 

[SteveP]

I do not quite understand the evening debate over whether, and to what extent KG and MM may or may not have been intoxicated after leaving the Corner Club, as I do not think that contributed in any way to their deaths, since they arrived home safely. I do, however, find it unrealistic to think that the two young ladies, both of whom were of age, spent some three and a half hours at the club and neither drank any alcohol during that time. JMO

 

[DeDee]

I've not read it reported that way. In fact, it;'s been said repeatedly (by the coroner and others) that the victims were killed in their beds.

if you have info to contradict that, please post a link.

Coroner: Idaho students were stabbed to death in their beds

Four University of Idaho students found dead in a rental house last Sunday were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep when the attacks occurred.

www.seattletimes.com

They were asleep when attacked. They were killed in their beds while sleeping.

Those are two of the few facts issued by authorities. The next day one of them tried to explain that one victim may not have been discovered in a bed. ittr mhoo

The household was not awake playing pinochle when they were attacked. It was between 3am and 4am. K's last proof of life is at 2:52am. We are told they were asleep and I believe them.

3rd floor: I believe the first victim never knew what happened. The 2nd victim had very little time to react but this was life or death so I think she tried to live -- Chances are slim when against a violent individual armed with an edged weapon.

2nd floor: 1st victim didn't realize what was happening. Cornered, one victim may have rolled or climbed off the bed but landed onto the floor from the cowardly attack -- Probably in X's room in the far right corner away from the door due to location of the exterior blood.

MHO

 

[Cindizzi]

 

[SUSAN ANN]

LE: "this individual"

Interesting pivot from before when they've always stuck to plural and non plural descriptives of the perpetrator

Creepy. It’s all just so creepy. I can’t tell if they know who the perp is but just don’t know where he is, or, they don’t know who he is at all.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

LE: "this individual"

Interesting pivot from before when they've always stuck to plural and non plural descriptives of the perpetrator

This could be one element of the "clearer picture" that is emerging from crime lab results (or just from analysis of the crime scene as a whole).

 

[EmmieA]

I think there's real confusion about how many were in the house and who was sleeping where. There was a roommate who moved out. There were supposed to be 6 available bedrooms. There were (as of Nov 12) only 4 people still living there full time (X, M and the two survivors). There's body cam video from LE that seems to show that the very small bedroom on the first floor (basement) was not being used as a bedroom and a very nice room on the second floor that could have been someone's bedroom.

I realized I'd just been assuming about where everyone was sleeping and can't find a single in situ report (a reporter on the ground - like Entin) who actually asked that question or can give any kind of proof as to who was sleeping where that night.

Obviously, D and B know the answer - and so I am confident that LE knows the answer.

Here’s some clarification about the surviving roommates: They we’re on the 1st floor (thanks to @North_Idaho_Nony for finding this)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594893543486939136

 

[rahod1]

I’ve always used this quote when people have asked if all 4 were really asleep in their beds when attacked, and people have always come back at me by saying:

a. That the coroner later admits they were all asleep
and
b. Official reports say they were all asleep.

It’s frustrating, because it makes you wonder what prompted the coroner to make this correction at all, and it seems to indicate that the killer really did intend to kill all 4, and was not surprised by anyone who woke up — which sounds like a hired hit.

Why does this indicate a *HIRED HIT*? These are college students...not drug dealers. Hired killings would usually entail a *non emotional element*....staged accident...fire arm...etc. Also keep in mind>>> Once a *hired killer* is in play, the one instigating this crime has added another level of exposure. This is a LONE KILLER. MOO.

 

[TIGER0822]

My thoughts on this are that although we might not know what LE are doing, I’m pretty sure they know what they’re doing. MOO

Reading between the lines. I think LE knows who owns ‘the car’, they need to figure out who borrowed the car, and where it is now.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed> People in different parts of the country call that part of the structure a basement or walk out, it’s a regional thing.

 

[layer]

Just musing here, feel free to disregard.
I have a gift. Not a great gift, but it is mine. It's almost uncanny, but I have a gift for locating lost items. But I have a secret method.

The secret is to go through each possible location, starting with the most likely, and thoroughly search this area, to the point that you know the item is not there. Don't move on until you are 100% positive the item isn't there. Then move to the next possibility, and do it again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, you find the lost item, hiding where you haven't yet looked. Process of elimination.

Sometimes I think this is how great detectives work. Thoroughly examining suspects, starting with the most likely, until they are sure they didn't commit the crime. Then move on to the next. Rinse and repeat. Process of elimination.

I could be way off here, but if this is true, and if we have great detectives working this case, then I have faith they will finally locate the lost perp - hiding where they haven't yet looked.

Just the ravings of a bored web sleuth...

 

[wary]

I do not quite get the evening debate over whether, and to what extent KG and MM may or may not have been intoxicated after leaving the Corner Club, as I do not think that contributed in any way to their deaths, since they arrived home safely. I do, however, find it unrealistic to think that the two young ladies, both of whom were of age, spent some three and a half hours at the club and neither drank any alcohol during that time. JMO

The main relevance, as I see it, might relate to how the killer, (or killers, of course,) was able to manage the attacks. I’d imagine that LE will look at the toxicology results with interest—just to fill in the entire picture.

But I’m with you, that it’s not too relevant, and also that it’s realistic to assume that they’d been drinking.

 

[TCorey]

LE: "this individual"

Interesting pivot from before when they've always stuck to plural and non plural descriptives of the perpetrator

I caught the law enforcement mention of “individual” as well. A bit of a tell after dodging Entin’s direct question of it being one or multiple perps. The Chief also avoided any clarity on if they think this is a college student or a more skilled killer. All in all that interview didn’t make me feel like they are significantly closer to a breakthrough. The fact that whether parents should send their students back should be a “family decision” is terrifying.