ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

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Just musing here, feel free to disregard.
I have a gift. Not a great gift, but it is mine. It's almost uncanny, but I have a gift for locating lost items. But I have a secret method.

The secret is to go through each possible location, starting with the most likely, and thoroughly search this area, to the point that you know the item is not there. Don't move on until you are 100% positive the item isn't there. Then move to the next possibility, and do it again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, you find the lost item, hiding where you haven't yet looked. Process of elimination.

Sometimes I think this is how great detectives work. Thoroughly examining suspects, starting with the most likely, until they are sure they didn't commit the crime. Then move on to the next. Rinse and repeat. Process of elimination.

I could be way off here, but if this is true, and if we have great detectives working this case, then I have faith they will finally locate the lost perp - hiding where they haven't yet looked.

Just the ravings of a bored web sleuth...
You'd make a great investigator or like me, thats the way I clean my house. Leave no suspect or dust bunny undisturbed.
I am just so happy they found the 5 month old baby. Jmoo
 
They were asleep when attacked. They were killed in their beds while sleeping.

Those are two of the few facts issued by authorities. The next day one of them tried to explain that one victim may not have been discovered in a bed. ittr mhoo

The household was not awake playing pinochle when they were attacked. It was between 3am and 4am. K's last proof of life is at 2:52am. We are told they were asleep and I believe them.

3rd floor: I believe the first victim never knew what happened. The 2nd victim had very little time to react but this was life or death so I think she tried to live -- Chances are slim when against a violent individual armed with an edged weapon.

2nd floor: 1st victim didn't realize what was happening. Cornered, one victim may have rolled or climbed off the bed but landed onto the floor from the cowardly attack -- Probably in X's room in the far right corner away from the door due to location of the exterior blood.

MHO
We don't have any specifics and may never know exactly what occurred in each case. To me it appears patently obvious that ALL VICTIMS were attacked in a COMPROMISED STATE where the element of SURPRISE was paramount in the killer's mind. MOO.
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Its not a basement, it’s a multi level home that was added on to. So the first floor with the front door is part of the original structure. Half of the second floor and the full 3rd were the addition to the house.
 
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In my strong opinion on this, She should only have said homicide by stabbing
She is a coroner and a defense attorney SMH

JMO
These digs at the actually-more-qualified-than-most elected coroner who is also admitted by the Bar to practice law in the State of Idaho puzzle me.

For those who really think that’s significant in some way, why aren’t the same jabs being made about the hired gun criminal defense lawyer who has inserted himself into the case on behalf of one of the victim’s family? SMH

MOO
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed> People in different parts of the country call that part of the structure a basement or walk out, it’s a regional thing.
When I lived in NJ we called it a cellar. Then I moved to MD where it's called a basement. Now I live in Florida and it's called a swimming pool. It just depends where you live.
 
does Idaho have the death Penalty. what if it was manslaughter not premeditated.
I don't see anyone who has killed four people by stabbing ever being charged with manslaughter. I think it would be easy to say that even if the first murder was a murder of passion and impulse, the next 3 could not have been.
 
Could they have gone to stores to see if they had record of who our chased the knife if they knew what kind and had the knife
The words "recently sold" are paramount here. That's what police searched for - a recently sold Ka-bar knife. However, what is unknown about the knife is
1. How old is it?
2. How used is it?
3. Is it stolen or was it purchased? For that matter, it could even be a found object, inherited or a gift.

Unless it is new police could ask anyone they liked about a new knife and would have found nothing.
 
TRANSCRIPTION OF BRIAN ENTIN'S INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF FRY

23RD DECEMBER.

Entin - Chief, thank you so much for being with us. It's been almost 6 weeks now since the murders. I know you're getting hundreds of tips still coming in every day. Are you getting closer, Chief, to finding the killer or killers?.

Chief - We're continuing the investigation, we're continuing to push on. Like I said from the very beginning, I'm very confident that we will have a conclusion to this. A timeline - that's going to be as things develop, and we're following up on all those leads.

Entin - The latest I heard, you've done 250 interviews, your detectives, which is an enormous amount of work going on, behind the scenes, that obviously the public can't see. And I know there's a lot you can't talk about, but can you tell us whether you're zeroing in on one or two people at this point?.

Chief - Like we've said through the whole investigation, there's things we have to keep for the integrity of the case, and we're going to continue with that. We are interviewing a lot of people and we are gathering a lot of information and we're putting that puzzle together. And were painting a picture and we're trying to put that all together.

Entin - I've sort of thought about this, Chief. The fact that you've got so many resources there and the FBI and technology and the resources from the feds - Should we assume that this was almost someone.. like almost like a professional who knew what they were doing?. Because it seems like if this was just some college kid, surely that person would have been tracked down by now?.

Chief - So I think there's some misconception out there with how we operate, here in Moscow. We've called in ATF in the past. We've called in the FBI in the past on many of these big cases because they have resources that we don't. We want to have the best investigators there. That's why we call in the state police, from the very beginning of these, as well. So we've always done this type of investigations with the help of our federal partners as well as our state partners.

Entin - And you mentioned calling in the state police at the beginning. One concern that we've heard from the Goncalves family attorney is he has questioned how the investigation was handled in the first 48 hours. He says perhaps there was more that could have been done, immediately after the murders. Do you think things were handled properly right at the beginning?. I mean, do you have any regrets about the way things were initially handled?.

Chief - I do think they were handled properly. We secured the scene quickly. We called in the state police. We did our due diligence in getting the things that we needed to do, to have this be a solid case all the way through. We called in the state lab to collect evidence and, I believe that, it was the initial stuff that we started and how we did things that will help bring this to a conclusion.

Entin - School's out now, winter break at University of Idaho. I believe the kids come back on January 11th. We've heard from parents who are worried, saying, you know, 'maybe I'm going to keep my kids home or have them do online school'. What do you say to those families that are concerned about sending students back?.

Chief - What I've always said is, is we're a very proactive police force. We're out and about. We're on campus a lot. We're out doing patrols, but personal safety - People do need to pay attention to their surroundings. People need to make sure that they watch out for one another. But we want the students to come back. We will also want them to feel safe. So that's going to be a family decision, I think, on a lot of those parents and kids.

Entin - Is there anyway of knowing right now and, again, I know there's things you can't say, of whether this murderer is still in the area or maybe far away by now?.

Chief - Like I said, we're not disclosing any of that, but it's not that... we just don't know at this point. We're still trying to put everything together. We've said all along that we need people to be vigilant. We need people to pay attention because we're not sure exactly where the individual is.

Entin - The white Hyundai Elantra that's obviously gotten so much attention. People all over the country looking for it. Should they still be on the look out?. Do you think you've gathered what you need, in terms of that car or are you still wanting people to call in?.

Chief - We still are asking people to call in on any spotting of a white Elantra. We appreciate all the tips that we've gotten, not only from local Moscow, but across the nation. And we're following up on all those, so every tip helps. Like I said, we don't know exactly which tip is going to be the one that really secures a piece of information that we're looking for, but we're looking at all those.

Entin - I've been outside the house quite a bit over the last month. It was two days ago there were two detectives that showed back up to that house. Any idea how long you'll keep that a crime scene, the way it is, all roped off?.

Chief - I'm not exactly sure. We're working with investigators to verify when they're ready to release that, but as soon as we can release it, we will.

Entin - And I know how hard everyone has been working, again, behind the scenes. You have so many detectives on the case and the feds and the state troopers who are there. Obviously, a lot of people working the case have families and kids. I know you've mentioned before that there's young officers that first showed up to the crime scene and it was emotional for them. How's everybody doing at the department?.

Chief - I think we're doing well, actually. We're very committed, were committed to this. We've said all along that we will push through and we're giving people time off, as needed, and giving them a break and getting them back. But we're keeping people healthy and we're going to continue to push on this. We're committed to this.

Entin - Well, Chief Fry, we appreciate your time. I know how hard everyone is working. I know the families appreciate the hard work and thanks for coming on tonight.

Chief - Thank you and I appreciate it.
 
I watched “Interrogation Raw” last night. It was the story of a VA Nurse that was poisoning patients in her care. Detectives knew it was her in the first couple weeks of their investigation. It took them 1 and 1/2 years to build their case and finally arrest her.
I share this because it’s very likely they have a good idea who did this. There’s a lot of evidence in this case and in order to get a conviction, detectives need to make sure their case it tight.

I believe the cops were right in the beginning that it was a crime of passion/targeted attack and there isn’t an immediate threat to the public.

MHO
 
Reading between the lines. I think LE knows who owns ‘the car’, they need to figure out who borrowed the car, and where it is now.
I think the lines you're reading between aren't even on my radar :) I'm not at all convinced that LE know who owns the car. I think if they had that information, they would be able to put it to work by squeezing the owner for information, putting the owner of the car under surveillance, scanning the owner's familial and social networks for anyone fitting their profile of the killer, etc.
 
Just musing here, feel free to disregard.
I have a gift. Not a great gift, but it is mine. It's almost uncanny, but I have a gift for locating lost items. But I have a secret method.

The secret is to go through each possible location, starting with the most likely, and thoroughly search this area, to the point that you know the item is not there. Don't move on until you are 100% positive the item isn't there. Then move to the next possibility, and do it again. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, you find the lost item, hiding where you haven't yet looked. Process of elimination.

Sometimes I think this is how great detectives work. Thoroughly examining suspects, starting with the most likely, until they are sure they didn't commit the crime. Then move on to the next. Rinse and repeat. Process of elimination.

I could be way off here, but if this is true, and if we have great detectives working this case, then I have faith they will finally locate the lost perp - hiding where they haven't yet looked.

Just the ravings of a bored web sleuth...
That's certainly a gifted way of looking for a lost item!


Why I don't think it exactly parallels a police investigation is that:
1) you know what your item looks like.
2) you know that your item has to be someplace where you have been.
3) your item is not on the move.

For LE, they start off by not knowing what "their item" looks like, because at least at first they don't know who did it, and then they have no idea where "their item" may be by now. They know where "the item" WAS at the time of the murder, but "it" can be anywhere in the world by now.

But your main idea of starting with the most likely and moving to ever-widening circles is 100% right, IMO.

All JMO.
 
Is it possible the "target" was not an individual but "something" else? This was discussed early on in the threads but haven't seen much since then on that aspect. LE hinted the house may have been the target. Maybe the attack was perpetuated by the party status of the house. Loud music and all night parties may have been nauseating to some. Maybe the perp hated women and the male victim was only in the wrong place at the wrong time. What sort of bias could have been part of the motive much like a hate crime? A hate crime is not determined by the viciousness of the crime but by some bias that is involved. Just some thoughts.
 
Again, this stuff is dumb. Has no one been to college?! I was once at a party where the COPS crew showed up with the police because someone brought a sawed off shotgun. I briefly wound up in flex cuffs for talking back, and not a single person who lived there was home at the time.
 
But the white duvet was visible in photos after the murders.
Are you saying you've seen photos of a white duvet in Kaylee's room, so her room was able to be slept in the night she was murdered? Not sure what to make of that, but I haven't seen such a photo so if you have one, do you mind linking it?
 
Wasn't she still a month away from moving out? It's purely speculation of course, but beds tend to be the first thing to set up and the last thing to take down when moving...
My understanding (I don't have links) is that she came back that weekend to show her friends her new car, and that she was practically moved out already (?)

Does anyone have concrete details on this?
 
In my opinion, E was actually living there and had all or most of his stuff there. I believe the 'visiting' claim was only because he wasn't on the lease and wasn't supposed to be there.
I doubt that E was living there. Why would a 20 something frat member decide to go and live with 4 females? Especially when the frat house is right across the street. That doesn't make any sense to me.
 
I watched “Interrogation Raw” last night. It was the story of a VA Nurse that was poisoning patients in her care. Detectives knew it was her in the first couple weeks of their investigation. It took them 1 and 1/2 years to build their case and finally arrest her.
I share this because it’s very likely they have a good idea who did this. There’s a lot of evidence in this case and in order to get a conviction, detectives need to make sure their case it tight.

I believe the cops were right in the beginning that it was a crime of passion/targeted attack and there isn’t an immediate threat to the public.

MHO
He said that people need to stay vigilant and that they don't know exactly where the individual is. IMO, if they had a good idea, they would be keeping an eye on them at all times.
 
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