ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 53

[Erutan]

And to corroborate DM's account, IMO.

Agreed.
Seems like a slam dunk ?
Hope so !!
The defense isn't going to have a lot to work with, imo.

 

[LizWords]

Where is it stated that the Van footprint was outside and not inside?

Sorry, outside of the bedroom is what I meant to write.

 

[10ofRods]

I have a problem with this time from the PCA and a thought that may make it make sense. I highlighted a few key points in the document

My bullet points:
1.The Elantra was first seen at 3:29am and made three passes by 1122 King
2.The car was on video entering the "area" at 4:04am
3.The car on video leaving the "area" at 4:20am at a high rate of speed
4.During those 16 mins the car was driving all over the place and making some odd turn arounds and stops, including in front of the King house and another down the street
5.Im assuming the video cameras time stamps are correct since they work off WiFi
6. X was still on her TicTok at 4:12 am which closes the window even further.
7. How in the world could BCK be inside killing the victims during this time with the car still in motion...
8. Could there have been a second person? One driving and one killing?


AS PER THE PCA:
"A review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood showed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive. Based off of my experience as a Patrol Officer this is a residential neighborhood with a very limited number of vehicles that travel in the area during the early morning hours. Upon review of the video there are only a few cars that enter and exit this area during this time frame. Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximately 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road. Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area of the King Road Residence at approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed. Suspect Vehicle I is next observed traveling southbound on Walenta Drive"

I think the parking of the vehicle and the crimes occur during those 16 minutes, yes. There's just not a line of vision from any camera to his parked car. If he parked it where we see officers look at tread marks and skid marks in the driveway, it would not have been visible from those other cameras.

So he did his 3 point turn at some point after 4:04, is not seen parking or doing anything at all after that until it arrives back in camera view at 4:20 am at a high rate of speed. So he turned around, went back, is out of view for an undisclosed amount of time. It does NOT say he was driving around all that time. "Next seen" means there was a gap.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

So it looks like he drove past the scene on Sunday around 9 am to see if LE was at the location.

Sunday afternoon, he was driving around and went to Albertson's in Clarkston, WA

He may have driven near the King Rd location later that evening around 6 pm with his phone off. (His phone was off for 3 hours, so I kinda wonder if the battery died and he spent part of that time at home asleep?)

Did he go back by later to see if LE was there yet? I was thinking he may have gone back to get the sheath he probably realized later he had dropped.

 

[Which_pancake]

Notice of Hearing (01/05/23)
Second Amended Order Governing Courtroom and Courthouse Conduct (01/04/23)
Nondissemination Order (01/03/23)
Criminal Complaint (12/29/22)
Arrest Warrant (12/29/22)
Probable Cause Order (12/29/22)
Affidavit Exhibit A Bryan Payne Statement (12/29/22)
*Apologies if less helpful

The criminal complaint lists the accusations in the following order:

Burglary
Murder of MM
Murder of KG
Murder of XK
Murder of EC

I wonder if that is the order they believe they were killed in? JMO

 

[TheBorez]

It literally says she froze. You don't freeze over a non event imho.

You can freeze before you rationalise it as being nothing to worry about.. the suggestion that DM had any inclination of what happened and opted not to call 911 is to me beyond farfetched… imo

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Bringing this forward from the last thread because I truly want others' ideas on this:

Okay. Apologies if this has been posted about already -- it's nearly impossible to keep up right now.

One fascinating (to me) revelation from the PCA is how clearly it indicates that LE wasn't being forthright about even those few details of the case that it chose to make public. I'm going to zero in on one "fact" that was posted repeatedly by Moscow PD: "The other roommates [meaning DM and BF] did not wake up until later that morning." (I''m quoting from memory here.)

After reading the PCA, it's clear that this was a blatantly misleading statement. DM was both an ear witness and an eye witness! And in no way did she sleep through the killings, which is what was implied. (IIRC, E's mother softly contradicted this, alluding to the fact that the girls downstairs had heard something. Now we know what she was referring to.)

I'm not outraged that LE lied about this -- I completely understand why they would have felt this was the safer thing to do rather than drawing attention to the fact that one of the survivors could potentially help ID the killer.

However, and here is my point and my question to my fellow WebSleuths : What other details might have deliberately misrepresented in initial reports/LE communications? And why?

what else puts him inside the house and/or contacting the likely murder weapon?

I still expect him to have left blood at the scene. Maybe LE wanted to hold that back from the PCA because analysis of DNA at crime scene wasn’t final and they had enough?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree - he might have seen them at Mad Greek (I think the PCA mentions some other places too, but I need to reread). He may have followed several other young women, as well, gradually closing in on his "perfect target." Interestingly, the street light nearest 1122 (at the apartment complex nearby) was inoperable that night. It was fixed afterwards (it's' in the media thread somewhere, impossible to find right now, so IMO, MOO),

Their house was his best target - and that may be why LE says he "targeted the house." They might have pings showing him lurking around other places too. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he found himself at parties in Moscow, after his vegan meal at Mad Greek (falafel, cucumbers, tomatoes, dolmades).

"Crossing paths" is the best way to put it.

Maybe he picked that house because it was so dark outside. We have seen several bodycams of police approaching the house and can see the house was pitch dark with no outside lights. The apartments next door have porch/front lights seen in bodycams and news videos.

A house that dark would be easy to walk up on with no lights, no one could see you in dark clothing.

JMO

 

[PIUK]

DM thought she heard Kaylee playing with the dog.

It could have been the dog running about / barking like it was playing but actually notifying of an intruder

 

[RockyMtnWay_406]

So are you suggesting the knife could be in the river?

That's my theory, why rose would he go there? On that day? If so, highly unlikely they'd ever find it. Very large, deep, and swift.

 

[TheBorez]

The criminal complaint lists the accusations in the following order:

Burglary
Murder of MM
Murder of KG
Murder of XK
Murder of EC

I wonder if that is the order they believe they were killed in? JMO

That’s a really interesting point!

 

[Firstsnow4]

I have a problem with this time from the PCA and a thought that may make it make sense. I highlighted a few key points in the document

My bullet points:
1.The Elantra was first seen at 3:29am and made three passes by 1122 King
2.The car was on video entering the "area" at 4:04am
3.The car on video leaving the "area" at 4:20am at a high rate of speed
4.During those 16 mins the car was driving all over the place and making some odd turn arounds and stops, including in front of the King house and another down the street
5.Im assuming the video cameras time stamps are correct since they work off WiFi
6. X was still on her TicTok at 4:12 am which closes the window even further.
7. How in the world could BCK be inside killing the victims during this time with the car still in motion...
8. Could there have been a second person? One driving and one killing?


AS PER THE PCA:
"A review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood showed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive. Based off of my experience as a Patrol Officer this is a residential neighborhood with a very limited number of vehicles that travel in the area during the early morning hours. Upon review of the video there are only a few cars that enter and exit this area during this time frame. Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximately 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road. Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area of the King Road Residence at approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed. Suspect Vehicle I is next observed traveling southbound on Walenta Drive"

I have to agree to a certain extent, how quick this was all carried out!! Taking into account the turning around etc he must have been in and out within 10 mins! IMO.

 

[otto]

This is actually extremely compelling information…I may have missed it but do we know how long Maddie and Xana had been working at Mad Greek?

I don't know. I just know that they worked there.

When we put together the information that he harassed servers for dates and became angry or rude when turned down, two of the victims worked in a restaurant that serves vegan food, the restaurant closes at 10 PM on Saturdays, in late August the suspect was at their home at 10:35 PM and remained for an hour, then returned another 11 times prior to the murders, plus the fact that Kaylee had moved out and Ethan was a guest ... for me ... that makes Madison and/or Xana the target(s).

Madison's bedroom was clearly visible from the hill at the back of the house. Xana's bedroom was at the front of the house, and Kaylee's bedroom not as easy to see into the bedroom.

The sheath on Madison's bed suggests to me that he first used the knife in Madison's bedroom and maybe heard noise in Xana's room (since she was still awake at 4 AM), so he forgot to pick up the sheath.

 

[Bugssy]

I think LE can determine the shoe size from the print, even if it is partial.

By the way, if he left by the sliding door - who left the front door wide open?
Or was it a rumour?

Or what about blood on the sliding glass door handle!?

I think LE can determine the shoe size from the print, even if it is partial.

By the way, if he left by the sliding door - who left the front door wide open?
Or was it a rumour?

what about blood on the sliding glass door handle? Surely there would be some?

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

WOW.....Major WOW, on the affidavit! One huge area that concerns me is.....

D.M claims (per PCA) to have woken up at 4a.m to (what sounded like) K playing with Murphy.

Then "a short time later" heard (what sounded like) K say something like "Someone's here". Maybe she (K, or X) saw or heard a car pull up or saw headlights like someone turned into their driveway?

D.M. looked out her bedroom door (1st time), no one there, she closed it.

She then heard crying from X's room & a male's voice (I think it's safe to assume it was BK, as I believe Ethan to be already dead, IMO). She said the voice said (what sounded like) "it's OK, I'm going to help you". However, (IMO) I think it's more likely he said "I'm going to kill you [too]". D.M opened her door & looked out again (2nd time), saw no one so she closed her door again.

At 4:17a.m a security cam, approx 50 ft from X's bedrooms west wall picked up (distorted audio in what sounded like) voices OR a whimper, followed by a thud and a dog barking. That tells us the killer is on the 3rd floor.

D.M opened her door "a third time after she heard the crying and saw a man...... ". So did D.M continue hearing the crying (thinking it was X) or could the crying she heard that time been from K or M or did she only open her door twice? If she heard the same crying as before (which she already stated came from X's bedroom) right before the killer walked (not ran, mind you), this could mean that not everyone's death was immediate and that at least 1 person lay in agony (I shudder at that thought).

Additionally, the killer passed by D.M and left thru back sliding door. Didn't he have to climb stairs to get to that 2nd floor sliding glass door (assuming she was standing at or near her bedroom door, which was on the 1st floor)?? Or was she on the 2nd floor when he passed by her?? Wait, WTH is up with him passing her?? Why didn't he go after her too??




*edited to remove to avoid misinterpretation.

I stated this on another post, another viewpoint is it’s college life, how many unannounced guest came and went from that house? Another poster commented that if it was a Covid type mask (The description was a mask that covered his mouth and nose so sounds like a Covid mask not a ski mask) that in itself is not alarming or suggestive of criminal activity. Yes, she was startled by the presence of an unexpected person but again is that the first time that that has happened? Did her hearing, it’s OK I’m here to help, make her think the situation was being handled and her intervention was not necessary? She thought one of the roommates was playing with the dog, again that doesn’t suggest foul play. doorDash was delivered moments before the murders putting the meal delivery in the 3:45 AM range, normal middle of the night activity for this house so not unusual? I know it’s not common for delivery drivers to come in the house but again college life, college kids, did she just think it was a delivery person or a friend of one of the roommates who made the delivery, or the roommates brought someone home? I don’t think you can view her from the same lens/thought pattern as an adult who is always checking on children or others if hearing any type of noise etc. I don’t think her mind would necessarily go to the thought that possible harm was being done to her roommates. MOO

 

[Diogenetic]

Could it be possible that she was killed in her room and brought in to maddies?

this is how incorrect narratives happen. "Single bed" does not refer to size, it does not mean twin bed -- it means one bed in room. that bed could be twin, full, queen, or king. if they were both asleep on it then it was likely a larger bed, not a twin

 

[Friday Fan]

Did he go back by later to see if LE was there yet? I was thinking he may have gone back to get the sheath he probably realized later he had dropped.

I certainly would not go back at 9 am to retrieve a sheath!
It would be extremely risky

 

[TGIRecovered]

“It would seem he took the knife in with its sheath and left with a unsheathed knife. Even if we kept blood off his clothes, blood on the knife should transfer to his car seat or carpet.”

sbm.

Lots of speculation that he was frantic about leaving the sheath behind.

But what if it was intentional? It occurred to me that maybe he left the sheath on purpose. Why? Maybe he thought he had done a “good job” making “sure” it was squeaky clean and wouldn’t have any DNA. And maybe he thought putting a bloody knife back into a sheath would be creating another bloody piece of evidence that he would have to discard later/explain. So he just left it?

Exactly my thoughts!

Also, maybe the knife he used was not the same brand as the sheath. He may have thought he was being clever to misdirect LE.

 

[kittythehare]

Sorry, outside of the bedroom is what I meant to write.

Thanks, thought I'd missed it.

 

[DeDee]

This is what the affidavit says re DM:

"D.M. stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I 0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene"

It's entirely possible that she just saw a guy in a "covid style" mask - and thought her roommates had brought someone else back. Re-reading it, she may not have had cause for alarm if she didn't hear any other noises. MOO

Prior to this section of the PC is this re: D
Page 5

She opens her bedroom door three times for a reason. Spooked? I think by the time the killer is seen she is frozen in time and space as she watches him exit the sliding door. She was alarmed.



I wonder if Bryan wore fake bushy eyebrows bc his eyebrows are not thick and bushy. Oh, maybe it's bc he has deep set eyes that make the eyebrows appear prominent.


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