ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[jumpingjackflash]

* What could have triggered him to act that night?

I speculate that he may have been triggered by a humiliation that had nothing to do with his victims as individuals, but a humiliation that he associated with them in the abstract (i.e., as undergraduate students). I think he had selected his targets (either 1122 King or specific occupants of 1122 King) well before the trigger event, so the trigger event did not determine who he killed or why, but it did influence when he chose to act. (This is all just my hypothesis based on a possibly flawed understanding of BK's temperament and what motivated him).

The specific event I'll put forward as a potential trigger is the one described by WSU student Hayden Stinchfield in a NYPost article and interview:

Bryan Kohberger ‘seemed preoccupied’ after Idaho murders: former student

A former student of accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger said the teaching assistant seemed “preoccupied” and started grading leniently following the murders of the four University of I…

nypost.com

Based on what I understand about BK--including the fact that he clearly identified as and wanted to be seen as intelligent--I believe the confrontational debate over BK's grading practices as described by Stinchfield would have caused BK acute humiliation. I believe BK has a rather authoritarian personality, meaning that he is inclined to show unquestioning obedience and respect to those in positions of power/authority while being strict or punitive towards subordinates. I think that when the (male) professor for whom he was a teaching assistant gave undergraduates the floor to openly critique BK's grading methods/practices, BK experienced a deep wound to his ego that he was not equipped to manage through his usual (limited) coping strategies. And, given his authoritarian mindset, he would not have blamed the professor but the undergraduates. I think he projected his rage at the undergraduate students at WSU onto the 1122 King residents (also undergraduate students) that he was already targeting for other (unknown) reasons. I think this event may have been the trigger that provoked BK to act when he did. (Unfortunately we do not have precise information about the timing of this event, but I would very much like to know when this occurred.)

In this hypothesis, it is BK's internal humiliation and rage, rather than external circumstances or the comings and goings of his victims, that really clinched the timing of the murders. And to be clear I think he would have attempted the murders regardless -- he had been fantasizing about them and planning them for a while.

 

[Tillyjames]

I read through all those posts and, yes, they are quite alarming. Demons in his head, waking up to the sound of screams in his head, dissociation (feeling like nothing is real), extreme depression, suicidal ideation. No 15-16 year old should feel that way.

It does seem like he was getting some kind of help. He mentions a neurologist, eye doctors, an MRI. I wonder if he was telling the doctors and his parents ALL his symptoms or just the visual snow that was driving him crazy? Those posts about not wanting to live anymore would have gotten him committed if he'd said those things to a doctor. Who knows, maybe it did. The friend who talked about rehab and such may have been misled to think he had an addiction rather than a severe mental illness.

I think as people start digging through his old e-mail addresses (like this one) we are going to see other posts on other boards come to light. And it's not going to be pretty. My opinions only.

I agree with you that it could have been rehab for other issues opposed to drugs if these posting are accurate. It certainly could explain the anger issues that were described in high school, when he lost weight and took up boxing. He basically says as much, that nobody likes him and he’s a jerk. Disassociated from his family and others. I don’t want to speculate too much as we don’t know, but these posts are definitely very troubling and say a lot. MOO

 

[Jbaileetaxes]

I believe peoples interest in this is of course to make sure the killer pays and the victims and families have any sort of closure. I like to think that it also helps people to be aware of their surroundings, red flags, etc.

Some are just crime interested. Everyone watched thrillers and horror. Most of those things happened to someone

Hopefully we all remember in this that whomever is responsible to cause so much fear and pain to those murdered their families a community and honestly the entire world, we need to be respectful and grateful

 

[TeaTime]

Sorry, don't care one bit about his VS or his mental issues. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway. He may have all sorts of head junk, but he isn't insane.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

If ring cameras catch talking in the next house then I’m thinking they are a violation of privacy. I’m assuming they picked up the dog but no talking. IMHO

Agree. It says “distorted” audio. This leads me to believe they can make out sounds and not actual words.

 

[isabella88]

Lets say the killer does have a plan of pulling off the perfect murder. That plan is to get arrested and charged because of the evidence that was allegedly left behind, however to be found not guilty because of that same alleged evidence?

Now THAT would indeed be the perfect crime...would it not?

Could BCK be smarter than we may think... many of his past teachers and classmates have said he is very intelligent, it does seem that BCK has put in the effort and done the due diligence to attempt such an plan. IDK Im just speculating

IMO, BK is intelligent, smart enough to earn a master's degree and possibly have earned a PhD. But he's not that smart. The media is really playing up his studies and degrees, which I understand in some ways.

But it seems to me that the PCA would be A LOT thinner if his intelligence was reflected in his deeds when it comes to these crimes. My feeling is that he is indeed quite intelligent, but no Einstein. Even Ted Kaczynski was caught and I'm willing to bet that he's A LOT smarter than BK.

Emotion can trump intelligence and so can mental illness. Bundy thought he was so smart he acted as his own attorney. I was half waiting for BK to do the same but so far it looks like he's not willing to have a fool for a client.

All JMO

 

[gremlin444]

The Dad wasn’t previously stable?


Thanks! I have not seen this before.

Sorry, two many "he's" in one sentence. Dad feeling like BK was finally in a stable good place in life after some possible troubles.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, but why all the trouble? He might simply have dropped it in a trash bin immediately after the murder. It's probably rusting in a landfill, even as we speak.

Didn't he go off the normal route home for an hour or more? That says to me he was getting rid of evidence. I think I'd cut it up, fewer ppl would recognize it as a knife if a piece were encountered.

 

[Wishbone]

Agree. It says “distorted” audio. This leads me to believe they can make out sounds and not actual words.

my ring records birds in my yard chirping

 

[TheNile]

Sorry, don't care one bit about his VS or his mental issues. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway. He may have all sorts of head junk, but he isn't insane.

I don't think his alleged mental struggles excuse the atrocity he committed at all. I do however think its very, very intriguing! MOO

 

[detectivehomemom]

my ring records birds in my yard chirping

I think animals have a different pitch. I’m even shocked it heard a thump

 

[gizmobtj]

IMO, BK is intelligent, smart enough to earn a master's degree and possibly have earned a PhD. But he's not that smart. The media is really playing up his studies and degrees, which I understand in some ways.

But it seems to me that the PCA would be A LOT thinner if his intelligence was reflected in his deeds when it comes to these crimes. My feeling is that he is indeed quite intelligent, but no Einstein. Even Ted Kaczynski was caught and I'm willing to bet that he's A LOT smarter than BK.

Emotion can trump intelligence and so can mental illness. Bundy thought he was so smart he acted as his own attorney. I was half waiting for BK to do the same but so far it looks like he's not willing to have a fool for a client.

All JMO

But yet so many murders never are caught .. perhaps intelligence has nothing to do with it.

 

[Pennysmom1]

Sorry, don't care one bit about his VS or his mental issues. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway. He may have all sorts of head junk, but he isn't insane.

I disagree...I think we can have empathy towards what the hurting 15 year old went through reading this sad account. Doesn't mean he's excused for what he did, but just gives a possible explanation and insight of what may have contributed to becoming the adult murderer he allegedly is.

 

[GGbankster]

You can't rationalize mental illness.

He’s not mentally ill. This is unverified.

I’m not going to empathized, and calls for “no capital punishment” simply because he was depressed. For me, If he was found guilty, he deserved whatever punishment imposed to him, including the death penalty.

Many people suffered from mental illness; depressions, bipolar etc but majority did not planned a murder. His posts was from 12 years ago, he would be a teenager then. Most normal teenager goes through phases; mean, sad, happy, lost etc. I wrote something similar in my notebook diary when I was 15. There was no online forum for me to write negative thoughts. My classmates and friends all have diaries and they too wrote some emotional teenager thoughts back then. I’m in my 30s now, I haven’t killed anybody.

Lastly, I do understand your empathy. I just don’t believe he doesn’t deserved certain punishment due to his mental health. (Which is unverified, not sure why mental illness kept coming up) Everything about him thus far, points to a normal guy. He’s a PHD student, a TA with normal middle class parents and supportive siblings. Most people didn’t have the same upbringing due to poverty. Who failed him? Moo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Jumping ahead several pages to post this.

I'm currently in the middle of listening to an audiobook whose subject matter might help explain DM's reaction that night.

The book is called "The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes -- And Why" by Amanda Ripley.

She talks about all sorts of disasters from restaurant fires to plane crashes to employees in the Twin Towers on 9/11 to earthquake/tsunamis to school shootings to human stampedes at the Hajj. She describes different reactions that are common. Denial (brain simply refusing to register a crisis) as well as play-dead paralysis (in the presence of a bad actor such as a school shooter) are both common. Other people panic or take a hero's role but those are much less common. Nearly everyone seems to wait for some authority to tell them what to do. The psychology is fascinating (to me at least).

Her focus is primarily on group situations rather than one person's situation (which wouldn't qualify as a disaster by her terms).

The Moscow murders seem like an in-between situation -- there are multiple people involved, but DM isn't in contact with any of them in the moment, so she is in effect having to act/not act on her own.

Obviously the book doesn't address this case specifically (written in 2008, we've had plenty of disasters worldwide since then) but I can't help but see the application as I listen there and read here. I'm inclined to think DM's reaction was entirely normal.

Thought some folks here might be interested in the book. At about 75% of the way through, I would rate it highly.

 

[tara83]

I disagree...I think we can have empathy towards what the hurting 15 year old went through reading this sad account. Doesn't mean he's excused for what he did, but just gives a possible explanation and insight of what may have contributed to becoming the adult murderer he allegedly is.

To me it doesn't explain anything.I was bullied and so have too many others to count.It didn't turn others into killers.

 

[kittythehare]

Yup. My real life definition of thud is your kid just jumped off the top bunk bed upstairs. The kind of heavy reverberating noise that vibrates pictures on the wall.

mine is, your kid topples a large wardrobe and the house shakes

 

[seemstome]

I don't believe the prosecution would use this information in the trial. If I were the defense I would bring a couple guys into court dressed in black with masks and bushy eyebrows and ask? Is one of these men the defendant?

Of course she would not be able to ID the defendant

It would be so foolish: kinda like having OJ try on the glove

I respectfully disagree with the idea that she wouldn’t be able to ID him. That is, providing they recreated what she saw - him waking towards her then turning to go out a sliding door. For instance, I have a very strong visual sense of kinesthetics regarding the way individuals move. I can recognize/identify/spot someone I know from very far away based on the way their body moves, whether they’re coming towards, away from, or at an angle to me. Even if I can’t see the details
of their face, clothing etc.
Many people can recognize someone and be recognized by the swing of their arms, angle head is held at, hip movement or length of stride. She may be unable to ID him standing still faced forward. So any ID should involve movement. JMO

 

[Pennysmom1]

To me it doesn't explain anything.I was bullied and so have too many others to count.It didn't turn others into killers.

I agree. But see, I didn't grow up with that, and I have empathy for YOU, and what you had to go through being bullied. Lots of criminals grow up in horrific and abusive and neglectful situations. Doesn't mean the criminal adult is any less guilty, but I can empathize and feel sad for what he/she went through as a child.

 

[BettyCooper]

I’d like opinions to what you think explains these things

1. Affidavits don’t have to state everything but they need to be true to the point of probable cause. This makes it extremely important to have it stick to be very grammatically accurate.

D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the
second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m.

What is meant by originally. Having that word there leaves questions and if it didn’t mean anything could have easily just been left out .

The next thing that is crucial IMO is that she stated she woke up at approximately 4:00 am. To me, this is sooo important. Think about it. If you are dead asleep and got woken up, how could you state at all what time it was unless you look at an actual click. If you look at click, I know exact time.

A person just throwing a wild guess what time it was out of thin air would not hold up to mean anything. This I find this wording by officer to stand out. You either know the time or you don’t.

IMO, they're using the word "originally" to specify how, prior to the events she witnessed, she'd been sleeping. As she'd already gone to bed, she wasn't necessarily sure what everyone else was up to, if someone was lurking around the house, if the doors were locked, etc. She also seems to have gone back to bed. If I were in her shoes & was asked when I went to bed, I'd respond "well I originally went to bed around x, but I woke up around 4 because... then I went back to bed around x".

I think the "approximately" wording is pretty standard. Unless she can provide proof of the exact time something occurred, LE would be sure to note that the time given was approximate. I'd be very surprised if she had an actual clock, other than her phone, or possibly a cable box, in her bedroom. However, I wouldn't be surprised if she sent someone a text that she could've referenced the next morning to give an approximate time. I bet she sent a few different messages during the time she kept looking out her door & that those helped them narrow down the timeline.

It points to this on page 5 of the PCA, which reads "The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 a.m."