ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

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I am not convinced Murphy was the dog barking. It could have been a neighborhood dog that heard him outside going to his car. At first, I thought it might be the "thud," but the "thud" would have made for an extremely tight timeline (assuming he had to finish what he started before leaving the house).

JMO and pure speculation below on trying to understand the timeline.....

4:12 X closes TikTok and decides to call it a night. Heads out of room to throw DD bag away and maybe go to the bathroom when she hears, and possibly sees someone coming down the stairs. She quickly returns to her room to tell E someone is in the house..... How long would that take - 1 minute, maybe 2 (if she didn't go to the bathroom)? BK follows her into her room. In this speculative scenario, BK would have several minutes to kill X & E before the dog started barking.
That makes perfect sense to me, but only if I can accept 1) the dog recorded barking wasn’t Murphy and 2) after killing M and K, when he descended the stairs and had a clear exit, he instead came after X and E (but not D). Either is possible I suppose, but I’m leaning strongly to thinking neither is true.
 
There is still unlawful entry. I am in Canada though, IDK the laws in Idaho. IIRC burglary doesn't have to involve theft in ID and I believe unlawful entry is included under the term burglary in this case?
I don't know Idaho law but in most states that have felony murder laws, entering a home with the intent of causing harm or death to the residents is "burglary." The killer's actions clearly fall into this category. "illegally entering a building at night with the intent to commit a crime."
 
Only if there is a purpose that generally aids the patient. And even then there must be reasonable safeguards. This site lays out the issue quite well, hopefully ending the debate here: HIPAA Waiting Rooms
Actually, what I meant was, I am confused because this has no bearing on BK's case.
But, yes, I know that use of calling a patient's name is permitted, I worked in healthcare before I retired. I went to college for HIM.
 
Good question. I dont know if PA issues 2 plates, in case you want to do that. I'm in CA and only have one on the back- when I re register every 2 yrs, they just mail me tags I have to affix on the license plate. They only mail 1 tag.
PA does not issue 2 plates.
 
Im sure this means nothing but just an observation, BCK was an HVAC trainee in High School and we all were curious why only a couple of days after the murders there was a the was an HVAC repair truck at victime house.

When did Mrs Chapin make this post? I know some of the other vehicles were released back to families fairly soon after Nov 13th. Are the police still holding E's Jeep and why?
I, too, did and still do keep going back to the HVAC van having some significance being at the crime scene other than just a scheduled routine visit or there being something wrong with HVAC system working properly in the house. There is something more to it IMO
 
Can you claim self defence when you break into somebody's home first? You certainly can't in Canada.
Depends on the state to some extent but that's generally an uphill battle factually and would apply only in pretty narrow circumstances. Its not going to fly in a case where you break into a home and murder four victims who are sleeping or eating Jack in the Box.
 

New '20/20' Episode Examines Shocking Murders of 4 University of Idaho Students​


This week's episode of 20/20 focuses on the case and all of the harrowing details that have been uncovered during the investigation. The special, titled "Horror in Idaho; The Student Murders," airs Friday, Jan. 13 from 9:01 – 11 p.m. ET on ABC and is available to stream on Hulu the next day.

The special will feature exclusive interviews with parents and loved ones of the victims and people who knew the suspect, Bryan Kohberger. The two-hour episode also offers a glimpse inside the reporting from PEOPLE'sAssociate Crime Editor, Corin Cesaric.

 
wouldn't that be an own goal for the Defense?

They'd surely alienate the jury by blaming two survivor-victims for the other victims not having window coverings
While it's foolish to leave doors unlocked or windows open (etc.), an open door is not an invitation to enter a home to commit murder. So if an attorney argued that, I agree that the jury would be repulsed.
 
As a side note, in my state public defenders assigned to death penalty cases need only to have experience with felony criminal defenses, they do not need to have direct experience in death penalty cases.

Given Idaho's low crime rate and the decline in death penalty cases over the past decade or more, there may not be any practicing prosecutors or defense attorneys in Idaho with direct experience in death penalty cases.

One could probably include the neighboring states as well with exception of Nevada. In short.... my guess is that both the prosecution and the defense are going to have to "fly" with who they have experience wise.
The indigent Lori Vallow has been assigned a death penalty qualified attorney.

Idaho maintains a list of such attorneys. That being the case, I doubt the PD staff would continue to defend BK once the DA decided to pursue the death penalty. The risk of an ethical challenge based on competency would be too great. The prosecution might even weigh in favoring appointment of a listed attorney if necessary, not wanting to risk a valid appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel.
 
In addition to what looks like a cut on his face and an acne breakout does BCK have bruises on his neck? At first, I thought that was the shadow from either his own jaw line or from his attorney's body, but the area that looked like it was bruised didn't change or move whenever he swiveled in his chair like it would if it were shadows.
I saw that too. It looked like he missed that area shaving and it was just the shadow of stubble.
 
Maybe there's something in the water in or near Moscow, ID, that makes killers go whacky and start breaking into homes at night and stabbing people as they sleep.

JMOO

Well, the song "Private Idaho" does say:
"Beware of the pool
Blue bottomless pool"
 
why the liver? The others make sense though.
IMO, the murderer was not "aiming" for the liver -- the liver is roughly located below and within the ribs / upper abdomen, and therefore in the immediate area one might aim for to incapacitate a person (I am not an anatomy expert).
 
They want to paint a picture that anyone but him did it. They will say the sheath was planted by someone else. I hope they have way more DNA to nail him with.

Can he be sure that there is no other evidence of his presence at the crime scene? It would be a shame to invest a lot of time and money in the ODD (other dude did it) defence and have to explain how ODD drove his car, used his cell phone and possibly left other evidence at the crime scene.

Do you anticipate that this Hollywood defence will go so far as to name ODD of just keep us guessing?
 
Stalking is the hunting of humans. It is an extremely deviant behavior. It is not normal and you cannot find a reason or provocation that justifies hunting human beings. Bullied, not bullied. Does not matter. Hunting and slaughtering humans is not justified or explained with any rational explanation. I would guess brain differences have to exist, but, when an individual knows right from wrong (i.e., turning off the cellphone, hiding covertly, going in the house in black at night), that individual made a conscious choice to slaughter innocent lives. Whether they were happy or popular or whatever, they were young adults at school trying to create a future, butchered in the prime of their lives. Ironically, even their grieving families would not, after learning of the slaughter of their son and daughters would not be legally justified in taking the same revenge. They will be reduced to a legal process that will never feel like justice.

I share this because my family was stalked by two individuals for two years that we thought were going to kill us. The provocation? They willingly relinquished rights to a special needs child who became our daughter. She was terrified of them. She vomited every time she saw them. She was three years old when we met her and five when she was adopted. This is how we started our trauma journey and my field in abuse now. These two individuals did NOT want her back. Our daughter reported abuse in their home on several occasions to counselors. We were absolutely stuck. My husband and I had three other young children at the time. These two grown adults, moved from over 1000 miles away. They went to my children's school to scare them. One applied for a job as a janitor to stalk my children. They went to my husband's work. They drove by our home repeatedly, terrifying our children. The sheriff's officer had a deputy assigned to drive by our country home (17 minutes for 911) to make sure we were alive. I cannot begin to express the horror. My oldest child, still young, dropped out of elementary school with repeated panic attacks. If he left home, they would go to his school (shared by all four kids). He did not trust the school could protect him like his mom would. He went into a very severe panic and anxiety overload. There were pictures of the stalkers at the elementary school and anywhere else we were. The university I taught for posted an armed security guard by my college class so I could continue to teach. One day, I was at church, without my husband, I got out of my car with four small children. As I went to go in, with children in tow, the man, well over 6 foot tall came to me. I froze. What could I do? If I ran, my children could not keep up. I would never leave them. I could not fight him. I had no time to call 911. Fortunately, I ran into the church, interrupting the meeting, and church members called 911 and different families took each of my children to separate places to hide them. When the officers came, the two individuals presented a poem on death and a child screaming from a coffin.

We had twelve restraining orders - one against each individual for six members of our family. They were jailed and continued. We had no way out. We could not "give back" our daughter to such abuse and terror and would not consider it. We could not protect our three young children. Every time we slept, we knew we were vulnerable. Our children were vulnerable. I read Gavin de Becker's Gift of Fear and contacted their agency for help. I was forced to learn methods to protect my children and family and became proficient. As an attorney, testifying at the trial was still one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. They were the hunters. We were their prey. At that trial, I summoned all my courage, after two years of intense stalking, looked them in the eye and said, "Normal people do not hunt other people, especially children." When I was done testifying, I collapsed sobbing into the arms of the victim advocate.

This is a hard story for me to share. Years later, the male turned up at an event I was speaking at on trauma and abuse to sit and stare at me as I was running a conference on abuse. He had free frequent flier miles and could be anywhere he knew I would be. Did they know what they were doing? Yes. Had they been bullied? I don't care. Were they mentally ill? Maybe, but they were fully aware of every action they took and nothing, besides a conviction and jail time would stop them. Even that, did not stop him from showing up years later. My daughter has never been in a year book. I do not share information on her on facebook. We keep her hidden because we do not know what they want with her. She is now the same age as the victims. Maybe that is why this resonates so strongly for me. Normal humans do not hunt humans. As terrified as we were, we knew we were being stalked. These young adults in Idaho did not get that blessing. They were sleeping. They had done nothing that could ever justify the horror they endured and, for what? There is no reason. When we can clearly tell that this was a premeditated attack on innocent human life, there is no sadness for the hunter and there is no justification that even merits consideration. They deserved to live. And, even if the killer didn't think so, they deserved a fair fight. This was not fair in any sense of the word. To hunt the sleeping in their own home at the darkest hour of night is cowardly, deviant and there will never be a reason that merits justification or explanation, especially when it is clear the killer was aware that the actions were wrong. It was a choice. It was a thrill. It was a crime against all of society. There is a price to be paid when humans deviate to the thrill of hunting other humans. Thanks for letting me share my story. To this day, it is still difficult to tell.
Thank you for sharing your story here - I read it with tears in my eyes. I know the intention of WS isn't necessarily to provide a safe space for the victims of crime (especially violent crime) to form community, but I think it does so inadvertently. For this I'm incredibly thankful to everyone who has helped or continues to help run and moderate this site, for all those who share in efforts to help solve these crimes, and for those who share their expertise or share their experiences in any related matters. As you say so well, these crimes are against all of society, so IMO a community like WS is the first sign of healing. I really am touched by your sharing.
 
Why would he be stalking the victims and the house so much if this was pure rage? Seems well planned to me considering the previous stalking and the time it occurred
Agree that pure rage doesn't fit with the months of stalking the victims/house. Believe that he had been obsessed for years with committing this kind of thrill kill. MOO
 
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