Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
If it's as is being discussed in the media, surely RH would have screamed/yelled out when CC was supposedly shot and I would have thought someone nearby would have heard the commotion and gone to investigate ... especially with it being in such a remote area. I would also think that sound carries in that area, especially at night. Something doesn't sit right with the scenario being portrayed by the media in my opinion at this stage. I do hope for the families & friends sakes that the truth is eventually pried out of GL. This whole situation is truly horrendous.
 
In a summary of the case against Lynn provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police allege Hill and Miss Clay had rekindled a relationship about 15 years earlier and would go on regular camping trips to “spend time together”.

The pair were childhood sweethearts who had drifted apart and had children with other partners, documents tendered to the court said.

Hill had been married to another woman for 51 years at the time of his death, and police facts tendered to the court revealed Hill’s wife believed he had gone camping alone.

“Those close to them believe that they kept their relationship a secret to spare Hill’s family from distress,” the police statement of facts read.
www.nzherald.co.nz

15-year affair between missing Aussie campers revealed as accused killer faces court

Two campers allegedly murdered in Victoria’s high country were 'childhood sweethearts'.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz

eta:
Mr Lynn, 56, was arrested in November 2021, more than 20 months after Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, vanished from their remote campsite in the Wonnangatta Valley.

In a summary of the police case provided to the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday, police outlined their allegations against the former Jetstar pilot.

Mr Lynn has denied murdering the pair, and lawyer Dermot Dann KC said the allegations against his client are “heavily in dispute”.

Mr Hill and Ms Clay, childhood sweethearts who had rekindled their relationship 15 years prior, had allegedly travelled to the remote “Bucks Camp” on March 19, 2020, to spend some quality time together.

Police allege the trip would end in tragedy, with Ms Clay shot in the head and Mr Hill fatally stabbed, after a fight over a drone.

When the pair arrived, police believe it is “likely” they engaged in some way with Mr Lynn, who had allegedly set up camp there the day before.

About 6pm on March 19, Mr Hill made contact via high-frequency radio with an amateur radio group, who reported him sounding “normal”, a police summary of facts reads.

It’s alleged in the document that sometime after this conversation a confrontation between Mr Lynn and Mr Hill broke out and they were killed.

In a separate statement provided to the court by forensic expert Mark Gellatly, he claims police informed him they believed Mr Lynn was annoyed by Mr Hill’s drone and confronted the pair about it before returning to his campsite.

He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill.
 
Last edited:
JudgeJudi said:
I'm glad you're here. I have a question for you.

If RH was trying to wrestle a gun from GL, it accidentally discharged and killed CC, would the prosecution be able to bring a manslaughter charge against GL? As RH is no longer living, we're unable to get a different side to the story.

The fact that the men were close to RH's car and DNA was found on the car roof, it would seem to me that GL was the aggressor.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about this myself.

As we are not in the US, I do know that it is more restrictive in terms of claiming self defence in situations you created as the aggressor. There is a well known NZ case (I forget the name) where a bank robber took a shotgun to a bank robbery, and subsequently shot one of the tellers "in self defence' when he claimed the teller tried to wrestle with him. It was held for policy reasons, that self defence cannot apply in that situation where it was foreseeable that there was a strong risk of someone getting harmed and the accused knew this when he took the gun with him. So he cannot argue self defence in a situation he himself created, even if he genuinely feared for his life in the moment. Of course that situation is in the course of a serious crime (aggravated robbery).

So I am wondering whether he cannot claim self defence in a situation where he confronted the victims with a gun? Or if self defence doesn't apply, is it similar reasoning that for policy reasons, you are responsible for what happens when you start menacing people with loaded guns?

In respect of the first victim, as you say, he doesn't claim it was self defence, but rather accidental discharge. But in that case surely at least manslaughter has to arise as how did it come to pass that the gun was loaded? I am not sure how mens rea works here, but there would seem to be at least high levels of negligence, going to confront strangers with a loaded gun.

Evidentially It seems all a bit hard to believe as to why did the victim start wrestling the loaded gun if the accused is merely an innocent party in all of this, and how did the second victim end up dying?

if the argument is the first victim was killed by accidental discharge and then he had to kill the second victim in a life or death struggle, that seems to run into the policy issues that he ought not to be able to argue self defence in a scenario he created?
 
Sher Lock said:
If it's as is being discussed in the media, surely RH would have screamed/yelled out when CC was supposedly shot and I would have thought someone nearby would have heard the commotion and gone to investigate ... especially with it being in such a remote area. I would also think that sound carries in that area, especially at night. Something doesn't sit right with the scenario being portrayed by the media in my opinion at this stage. I do hope for the families & friends sakes that the truth is eventually pried out of GL. This whole situation is truly horrendous.
Click to expand...

This does seem odd as there would have need to be 2 gun shots and a commotion.

Maybe people weren't surprised about the shots due to hunting?
 
mrjitty said:
I was wondering about this myself.

As we are not in the US, I do know that it is more restrictive in terms of claiming self defence in situations you created as the aggressor. There is a well known NZ case (I forget the name) where a bank robber took a shotgun to a bank robbery, and subsequently shot one of the tellers "in self defence' when he claimed the teller tried to wrestle with him. It was held for policy reasons, that self defence cannot apply in that situation where it was foreseeable that there was a strong risk of someone getting harmed and the accused knew this when he took the gun with him. So he cannot argue self defence in a situation he himself created, even if he genuinely feared for his life in the moment. Of course that situation is in the course of a serious crime (aggravated robbery).

So I am wondering whether he cannot claim self defence in a situation where he confronted the victims with a gun? Or if self defence doesn't apply, is it similar reasoning that for policy reasons, you are responsible for what happens when you start menacing people with loaded guns?

In respect of the first victim, as you say, he doesn't claim it was self defence, but rather accidental discharge. But in that case surely at least manslaughter has to arise as how did it come to pass that the gun was loaded? I am not sure how mens rea works here, but there would seem to be at least high levels of negligence, going to confront strangers with a loaded gun.

Evidentially It seems all a bit hard to believe as to why did the victim start wrestling the loaded gun if the accused is merely an innocent party in all of this, and how did the second victim end up dying?

if the argument is the first victim was killed by accidental discharge and then he had to kill the second victim in a life or death struggle, that seems to run into the policy issues that he ought not to be able to argue self defence in a scenario he created?
Click to expand...
Very inciteful!
I suspect once it is revealed how RH died, the jigsaw puzzle will start looking like a picture.
 
mrjitty said:
I was wondering about this myself.

As we are not in the US, I do know that it is more restrictive in terms of claiming self defence in situations you created as the aggressor. There is a well known NZ case (I forget the name) where a bank robber took a shotgun to a bank robbery, and subsequently shot one of the tellers "in self defence' when he claimed the teller tried to wrestle with him. It was held for policy reasons, that self defence cannot apply in that situation where it was foreseeable that there was a strong risk of someone getting harmed and the accused knew this when he took the gun with him. So he cannot argue self defence in a situation he himself created, even if he genuinely feared for his life in the moment. Of course that situation is in the course of a serious crime (aggravated robbery).

So I am wondering whether he cannot claim self defence in a situation where he confronted the victims with a gun? Or if self defence doesn't apply, is it similar reasoning that for policy reasons, you are responsible for what happens when you start menacing people with loaded guns?

In respect of the first victim, as you say, he doesn't claim it was self defence, but rather accidental discharge. But in that case surely at least manslaughter has to arise as how did it come to pass that the gun was loaded? I am not sure how mens rea works here, but there would seem to be at least high levels of negligence, going to confront strangers with a loaded gun.

Evidentially It seems all a bit hard to believe as to why did the victim start wrestling the loaded gun if the accused is merely an innocent party in all of this, and how did the second victim end up dying?

if the argument is the first victim was killed by accidental discharge and then he had to kill the second victim in a life or death struggle, that seems to run into the policy issues that he ought not to be able to argue self defence in a scenario he created?
Click to expand...
I literally spent hours this afternoon trying to find the answer but got precisely nowhere.

GL's barrister suggested in November a self-defence argument might be on the cards. Not being a lawyer, I can only say that might be possible for one person, but as you say, what about the second victim. The only thing I can come up with is if one bullet killed both, i.e. first hit RH, fragmented and hit CC in the head?
 
I can't recall exactly what post here, but one of Russell's friends said that Carol had divorced her husband so she could be with Russell
She bought a new house with the divorce settlement money.
Russell was to leave his wife to live with her but pulled out at the last moment.
 
TootsieFootsie said:
I can't recall exactly what post here, but one of Russell's friends said that Carol had divorced her husband so she could be with Russell
She bought a new house with the divorce settlement money.
Russell was to leave his wife to live with her but pulled out at the last moment.
Click to expand...
That's my recollection too.
 
Detective Willy said:
GL had many opportunities to confess if this was indeed an accident:

IMO he did everything possible to cover up his crimes and then avoid detection.

How much did his wife know about this?

Did he confess to her straight away and she covered this up the whole time or did he only confess to her later on when he knew there was no escaping the charges?

So many questions but IMO he is only trying to worm his way out with an improbable story because it's his last resort. He tried to burn all of the evidence which I believe is very telling and adds to his "guilt".
Click to expand...

IMO, he is showing the characteristics of a true psychopath. No guilt, no remorse, give over nothing, control the narrative.
 
Bats said:
Very inciteful!
I suspect once it is revealed how RH died, the jigsaw puzzle will start looking like a picture.
Click to expand...
One of the media outlets (Daily Telegraph quoted below) is reporting that RH was stabbed to death by GL after CC was shot.
And that RH had grabbed a gun from GL's vehicle.

Per Daily Telegraph article:
"In a separate statement provided to the court by forensic expert Mark Gellatly, he claims police informed him they believed Mr Lynn was annoyed by Mr Hill’s drone and confronted the pair about it before returning to his campsite.

He said crime scene investigators believe Mr Hill then allegedly grabbed a shotgun from Mr Lynn’s vehicle, before a physical fight broke out between the two men and the gun discharged.

It’s alleged Ms Clay, who was standing near Mr Hill’s car, was fatally struck in the head, with an ensuing fight between the two men, ending when Mr Lynn fatally stabbed Mr Hill."

 

Crime scene investigators returned to the Wonnangatta campsite in March 2022 where they allegedly located a piece of human skull, linked by DNA to Ms Clay, and a piece of lead near where the couple’s tent had been set up.

Forensic testing to determine whether the lead was related to firearms and ammunition seized from Mr Lynn’s home is ongoing.
 
TootsieFootsie said:
Crime scene investigators returned to the Wonnangatta campsite in March 2022 where they allegedly located a piece of human skull, linked by DNA to Ms Clay, and a piece of lead near where the couple’s tent had been set up.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised they would have missed that when they first searched the site.
 
so had lynn gone to the campsite with the intention of hunting? and bringing the dead animal home on a trailer?
otherwise why take a trailer and gun camping? and why did rh go there alone just days earlier?
i wonder if he ran into lynn on that trip and they argued then about the site?
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Who goes to ‘speak’ to someone with a loaded firearm under any circumstances but especially, if there’s a heated argument?
Click to expand...

JBowie said:
Someone with alpha male syndrome.
Click to expand...

Those who know him (and there are few) have described him as self-sufficient, self-absorbed, self-contained; a narcissist with an obsessive eye for detail. He was also a proficient pilot, highly intelligent and calm under pressure.

Link
 
The
SouthAussie said:
I'm confused too. I always thought that they stopped at the old homestead then carried on to where they camped.

Sounds like they were camped near to the Homestead Flat camp ground. I looked back in the threads ... back in July 2020 Herald Sun reported that Russell said he was about to set up camp near the old homestead site (presumably when he spoke with his ham radio friends).

View attachment 395762

Also ....

"Arson detectives have been unable to work out what caused a fire that destroyed camp chairs, a table and a tent at their campsite at Dry River Creek Track near the Wonnangatta campground."

www.abc.net.au

Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

Police say a Victorian man who went missing, along with a close friend, during a camping trip a month ago was "meticulous" in the bush. But they still haven't worked out what started the fire that destroyed the pair's campsite.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...
They were camped at Dry River track camp about 2 km or so north of the homestead. I visited the area again after the gates opened in November after they dissapeared. I camped within 10m of where Russells tent was burnt, the blackened ground was still evident as was the area where they corralled the horses used in the searches. At that stage we did not know anything about GL being charged.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 229 more.
Total: 4,648 (members: 230, guests: 4,418)

Online statistics

Members online
230
Guests online
4,418
Total visitors
4,648
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,334
Messages
17,967,687
Members
228,750
Latest member
AlternativeLuck
Back
Top