Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[Arboreal]

With what we know now in terms of surveillance on the accused, I'd say that 'search' and discovery of shovels was...hmmm...a set up??

I recall a news report a few weeks after the recovery of the shovels saying that the police had said the implements were not linked to the case.
As for a set up. There are very strict rules in all Australian states about such actions and police generally do not do things like that, as it can cause all sorts of trouble in the court case and more broadly, affect trust in the police service. For instance, police are not permitted to lie to a person being interviewed in order to obtain an admission. In parts of the US they can. In Australia they can't: Australian laws ... prevent police from using Reid tactics, such as confronting a suspect with fabricated evidence. Australian legislation ... prevents police officers from lying to suspects during an interrogation.
What counts then as a lie becomes the issue.
Note: "Reid tactics" refers to the Review interview technique. See this wikipedia entry for an overview. It is not used in Australia for a variety of reasons including that it produced an unacceptably high number of false confessions.

 

[KathPlumber]

I wonder if GL had a suspicion that he was being bugged, and put on a bit of a show.

Ie maybe he said stuff like. "if only he hadn't grabbed the gun" or "he just wouldn't let it go, I had to defend myself"

This would be a sensible argument to run, were you his lawyer.

 

[Arboreal]

This report in the Daily Mail answers some questions we have raised - but also raises others.
We have wondered when Mr Lynn took police to Rose River Road, where he claimed he disposed of various items of property belonging to Mr Hill and Ms Clay:
Information contained within that brief alleges Lynn camped overnight in the wilderness after he allegedly shot Ms Clay and stabbed Mr Hill to death.
On March 1 last year [Arboreal comment: this would be 2022 - several months after his arrest], police allege Lynn took them to a section of Rose River Road and showed them where he disposed of Mr Hill's and Ms Clay's mobile phones.
He allegedly told them he had thrown them into the river.
This may suggest that Mr Lynn "drip fed" information to the police - if Mr Lynne provided to police in November, the location he disposed of the property, would they have waited four months before going to the area? If they did go to the area, did they conduct a search? Did they find anything?
The DM report states that the "brief alleges Lynn camped overnight in the wilderness" following the murders. This would be the evening of 21/22 March. According to this time line, the murders are believed to have occurred sometime after 18:00 hrs on the 20th - and the night of 20/21 March, then taken up with burning Mr Hill and Ms Clay's tent and disposing of the bodies. According to the time line, Mr Lynn was captured on the Mt Hotham camera at about 09.50 on the 21st and at 3pm, Mr Lynn’s mobile phone is detected near Mansfield. [Arboreal comment: this suggests that the prosecution does not have any CCTV of Mr Lynn's vehicle after it was caught on the Buckland’s Gap traffic cameras, about 9.48am.] Mr Lynn arrived at his home on 22 March.
Question:
(1) If Mr Lynn did camp outdoors overnight on the 21/22 March - when did he go to the motel to clean up - recall, evidence that blood was recovered from a bath mat?
(2) When - time wise - was Mr Lynn at the Rose River Road location?
(3) What route does the prosecution alleged Mr Lynn took from Buckland’s Gap, where his vehicle and trailer were photographed at about 9.48am, to Mansfield? Was the vehicle caught on CCTV at any other time? If so, did he still have the trailer?

Here is the time line, according to Fairfax:

• MARCH 16, 2020​

  Police allege airline pilot Gregory Lynn left Caroline Springs bound for Wonnangatta Valley in a dark blue 1997 Nissan Patrol, camping at an area known as Bucks Camp over the coming days.

• MARCH 19, 2020​

  Russell Hill and Carol Clay arrive at the same campsite in the Wonnangatta Valley in a white Toyota LandCruiser utility about 2-3pm. Hill had in his possession a drone.

• MARCH 20, 2020​

  Hill and Clay are last heard from when they make a radio call to a friend at 6pm. Police allege later that night Lynn murdered the pair before disposing of their bodies using his own trailer. He then allegedly set fire to their campsite.

• MARCH 21, 2020​

  Lynn’s blue 1997 Nissan Patrol towing a box trailer travels through traffic cameras on the Great Alpine Road at Buckland’s Gap, about 9.48am. Analysis of Hill’s mobile phone shows it connects to the nearby Hotham Heights phone tower about 9.47am. At 3pm, Lynn’s mobile phone is detected near Mansfield.

• MARCH 22, 2020​

  Police allege Lynn arrives home in Caroline Springs.

• MARCH 26, 2020​

  Hill is reported missing by his wife Robyn before Clay is reported missing two days later.

• MARCH 27, 2020​

  Another camper reports finding a burnt out campsite in Wonnangatta Valley to police.

• March 28, 2020​

  Police first examine the fire-damaged campsite and find items including Hill’s locked utility.

• JULY 14, 2020​

  Missing person’s squad detectives first visit Lynn’s family home, spotting a 1997 Nissan Patrol parked there which is now painted beige.

• NOVEMBER 7, 2021​

  Police appeal for information to help locate Hill and Clay, releasing an image of Lynn’s car from the Great Alpine Road camera site. It followed a public plea for information from the victim’s family members the previous month.

• NOVEMBER 22, 2021​

  Twenty months after the deaths, Lynn is arrested and later charged with two counts of murder.

• NOVEMBER 30, 2021​

  Human remains are found in bushland north of Dargo.

• MARCH 2, 2022​

  A piece of human skull belonging to Clay is found at the Wonnangatta campsite following a subsequent forensic search of the area. A week later a suspected bullet is also found in the same area.

 

[Detective Willy]

If GL is successful having charges downgraded to Manslaughter later on, I wonder if Police have thought to lay additional charges like tampering with evidence and interfering with a corpse. Do we have a list of all of the charges against him? Interesting that he has a silencer! Who needs a silencer to hunt animals? Maybe I have watched too many movies.

 

[Puggo]

...

I must confess that I remain surprised the ute was returned to Mr Hill's family so quickly and that the bone fragments and bullet were not found at the capt site for over a year, following a subsequent search. I would have thought the area would have been intensely examined at the time. Vicpol, like the police in all Australian jurisdictions are generally exceptional at crime scene examination and analysis. So this is really puzzling. I am sure it will be canvassed during a trial, if indeed one is held that is a decision the magistrate still must make.

...

• JULY 14, 2020​

• Missing person’s squad detectives first visit Lynn’s family home, spotting a 1997 Nissan Patrol parked there which is now painted beige.

@Arboreal do you know if there is a difference in forensic procedures for a case handled by Missing Persons Squad vs Homicide Squad? IMO this might have affected the way the forensics played out.

 

[Cedars]

I'm a bit confused by some of the comments about whether GL might be found guilty of manslaughter and how that would happen. I'm most familiar with the legal system in Canada, where:

-prosecutors (not police) decide on what charges will be laid. They lay the charges they know they can win, ie prove beyond a reasonable doubt. So if they have no evidence of premeditation, they won't lay a charge of pre-meditated murder.

- the jury can only find guilty or not guilty of those specific charges, they can't make a finding of guilty of a less serious crime, tho it seems in some other jurisdictions they can.

- prosecutors do lots of plea deals to keep lesser crimes out of court, but for most murders, the public want to see proper justice. A deal with an accomplice in hideous murders 30 years ago is still frequently discussed as a deal with the devil. I know plea deals are common in American states that have the death penalty as a bargaining chip.

Just wondering if someone can explain the exact situation in the Victoria system.

thnx

 

[Puggo]

Also further to the above, this time span was interrupted by covid restrictions within Victoria. Although police matters where always granted work authorisation to travel, I know isolation requirements and covidsafe workplace managent plans often split staff into separate rosters in other sectors.

 

[5L00TH]

I lived in the area for a few years. One very obvious place that would be handy to dispose of a trailer would be Lake Buffalo. Much of the banks are accessible and mellow and it is a large body of water. If you Google Map ‘Mt Hotham > Lake Buffalo > Rose River Road’ it is an obvious route and it heads in the direction of Mansfield. There is also the William Hovell Dam en route to Mansfield.

(Just a wild hypothesis based on nothing more than a look on Google Maps and a bit of local knowledge)

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Decision over whether accused double murderer will stand trial looms

The ruling comes after days of evidence about covert recordings, blood spatter analysis, phone data and a s...

www.9news.com.au

After days of evidence about covert recordings, blood spatter analysis, phone data and secret but potentially explosive police interview, a magistrate is set to decide if accused double murderer Greg Lynn will stand trial.

Lead investigator, Detective Sergeant Brett Florence is set to finish his evidence when the case continues on Wednesday afternoon.

He's the final witness before magistrate Brett Sonnet must decide if there's sufficient evidence to send Lynn to trial in Victoria's Supreme Court.

 

[Bats]

I recall a news report a few weeks after the recovery of the shovels saying that the police had said the implements were not linked to the case.
As for a set up. There are very strict rules in all Australian states about such actions and police generally do not do things like that, as it can cause all sorts of trouble in the court case and more broadly, affect trust in the police service. For instance, police are not permitted to lie to a person being interviewed in order to obtain an admission. In parts of the US they can. In Australia they can't: Australian laws ... prevent police from using Reid tactics, such as confronting a suspect with fabricated evidence. Australian legislation ... prevents police officers from lying to suspects during an interrogation.
What counts then as a lie becomes the issue.
Note: "Reid tactics" refers to the Review interview technique. See this wikipedia entry for an overview. It is not used in Australia for a variety of reasons including that it produced an unacceptably high number of false confessions.

I agree in part, especially "reid tactics" though the Police undoubtedly use "covert" techniques to solve crimes. They caught Daniel Morcombe's killer using a 'set up'.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Ordered to stand trial!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618092779665784832

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Alleged murders of retirees Russell Hill and Carol Clay in Victorian High Country to go to trial

Former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn has been committed to stand trial for the alleged murders of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Victorian High Country.

www.abc.net.au

Former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn has been committed to stand trial for the alleged murder of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

A committal hearing has been running at the Melbourne Magistrates' Court since last week, to test whether there was enough evidence for the case to go to trial.

Magistrate Brett Sonnet today told the court he had "considered the totality of evidence" and believed the evidence presented to the court had "sufficient weight to support a conviction".

Mr Lynn formally entered a plea of not guilty to both of the charges and did not make an application for bail.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Alleged murders of retirees Russell Hill and Carol Clay in Victorian High Country to go to trial

Former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn has been committed to stand trial for the alleged murders of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Victorian High Country.

www.abc.net.au

Magistrate Brett Sonnet today told the court he had "considered the totality of evidence" and believed the evidence presented to the court had "sufficient weight to support a conviction".

Mr Sonnet also praised the dignity shown by the families of Mr Hill and Ms Clay, some of whom have been at the court hearing.

"I understand that would have been a very difficult experience," he said of attending the hearing.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Jetstar pilot committed to trial over murder of secret lover campers

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn has been committed to stand trial in the Supreme Court of Victoria over the murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lynn remained composed throughout the brief hearing, which was held within a near empty courtroom, apart from media representatives.

Dressed in a suit and carrying a bundle of yellow folders, he had stood to address his barrister despite objections from the clerk.

At the conclusion of the hearing he formally pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder, setting up what will be an epic murder trial.

Lynn will now face the Supreme Court of Victoria on February 9 in his first step in finally fronting a jury that will decide his fate.

He has been in jail since November 2021 and again made no application to be released on bail.

The jury trial is not expected to formally begin until later this year after mountains of evidence are discussed before a Supreme Court judge.

The court heard another man had been deemed a particular person of interest in the case after he was nominated by Parks Victoria staff.

Sergeant Florence said police had spoken to the man, who lived in the area the campers went missing, but was subsequently ruled out.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Australian law enforcement practice the PEACE model for police interviews, which was developed in the United Kingdom. Using the PEACE model, police officers use “investigative interviewing techniques” that seek to discover information, rather than secure a confession.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Police plan to resume searching Victoria’s high country where missing campers disappeared, as a former Jetstar pilot is committed to stand trial charged with their murders.

Florence told the Court that investigators plan to continue searching the remote area.

“We have to go back to Mount Hotham to do a search,” he said.

“It hasn’t been completed due to the weather situation over the last six to eight months.

“That’s the only investigation aspect that I know that needs completing.”

He didn't tell the Court what they were looking for in the Alpine National Park.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...e/news-story/2b19970eea5bf2c8aeaeed7add302a5d

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/gregory-lynn-committal-hearing-for-accused-missing-campers-killer-to-conclude/news-story/2b19970eea5bf2c8aeaeed7add302a5d

Russell Hill and Carol Clay: Police plan to continue search where missing campers allegedly murdered

Police will resume searching Mount Hotham, where campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay disappeared, as a former pilot is committed to stand trial for murder

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Police plan to resume searching Victoria’s high country where missing campers disappeared, as a former Jetstar pilot is committed to stand trial charged with their murders.

You beat me to it

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Jetstar pilot committed to trial over murder of secret lover campers

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn has been committed to stand trial in the Supreme Court of Victoria over the murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lynn will now face the Supreme Court of Victoria on February 9 in his first step in finally fronting a jury that will decide his fate

So this is my first beginning to conclusion case I have followed. Does this mean his trial starts on Feb 9?