Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

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I doubt it, especially if the audio quality was enhanced in order to add clarity to the words and possibly separate that from background noise. For every expert witness the defence always seems to come up with another to add the possibility the voice was distorted during recording. I don’t think the strength of a prosecution will weigh heavily on four words nor the image in the video, they’ve got something more. JMO

This snippet refers to using evidence from a recorded telephone call, I would assume very similar to a recorded voice.

“……One of the main hurdles voice analysts have to face is the poor quality of recorded fragments. “The telephone signal does not carry enough information to allow for fine-grained distinctions of speech sounds. You would need a band twice as broad to tell certain consonants apart, such as f and s or m and n,” said Andrea Paoloni, a scientist at the Ugo Bordoni Foundation and the foremost forensic phoneticist in Italy until his death in November 2015. To make things worse, recorded messages are often noisy, short and can be years or even decades old. In some cases, simulating the context of a phone call can be particularly challenging. Imagine recreating a call placed in a crowded movie theater, using an old cell phone or one made by an obscure foreign brand….”

In the podcast DTH they had a segment where the producer related reaching out to a voice analysis expert who said these particular 4 words are not enough to draw firm conclusions. But that was just one expert's opinion, of course and as @MistyWaters pointed out, there are other things that factor in, such as how much the audio had to be manipulated.
Thank you both for answering! Much appreciated.
 
RA lied. His path down the trail would have crossed theirs if he had walked back to a bench as he said. MOO he didn’t know he had been seen.
Lie would have might worked without witness seeing both him and the two girls on the trail.
However his lie never was tested, and has lain dormant for 5 years since police lost track of their prime suspect.

The timing is interesting. According to the evidence, Liberty German took a picture at 2:05pm of the Monon High Bridge looking across it before her and Abby got on it to walk across. At 2:07pm, Libby took the famous last picture of Abby on the Monon High Bridge. It does not look like anyone is behind Abby in the 2:07 pm picture. It also does not look like anyone is on the other side of the bridge in Liberty German's 2:05pm picture.

If Kelsie German dropped the girls off at around 1:30 pm at the side entrance that most people know about, then I think we could reasonably guess that it does not take 35 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge from that entrance. Maybe the girls were messing around on the trail or walking around other parts before finally going to the Monon High Bridge? This would make sense that Richard Allen would be able to catch up to them to watch them.

One thing I wondered is, if no one was around, could he have abducted them before they ever got on the bridge? Would it be possible to still be able to walk to the area where the eventual crime scene was located if they left the trail and were marched into the woods before even getting onto the Monon High Bridge?

It is possible Richard Allen lied, but it is also too bad that when Liberty German took that 2:05pm photo looking across the Monon High Bridge she did not turn around pretending to take a picture of the trail and take another photo. Maybe she would have caught Richard Allen following them?

Why did Richard Allen wait until they crossed the bridge before committing the crime? How many other pictures did Liberty German take with her phone before the one at 2:05 pm?
 
It came out in the probable cause that one of the girls said gun in the video.The video ends as they go down the hill.
It hasn't been shown just referenced

Yes - we have the abduction on video.

Then the girls are found murdered nearby. Any jury is going to infer Bridge Guy forced them there with the gun, and murdered them. This much will not be contested at trial IMO.

The defence will agree Bridge Guy did all the bad things. They will just argue RA is not BG
 
Question wasn’t to me, but I’d like to share my thoughts.

RA was “pre-splaining“. He knew he’d been seen by the three young witnesses. He gave a premeditated alibi of being on the bridge to watch fish. This is where he began to hide in plain sight.

It was a shrewd and strategic move by RA.
Hallmark of a skilled manipulator.

jmo
It was a move that led to his capture and will ultimately result in his conviction. If he had kept his mouth shut, LE would have never caught him! JMO
 
It was a move that led to his capture and will ultimately result in his conviction. If he had kept his mouth shut, LE would have never caught him! JMO
His cover up lie points to a spur of the moment act of violence.
He knew he had his phone on him. What did he do with it? He may have thought he needed to explain his location. But not too exactly just being in the area.
But no one, nor he could have anticipated the colossal error of missing him altogether.
 
@somequestions The probable cause affidavit has the girls being dropped off at 1:49 p.m. That differs quite of bit from the original times we were told.
Yes, and 6 minutes later they crossed paths with the lady at 1:55, as she walked back from MHB.
All the timing makes sense, terrible sense.

Defense will attempt to tangle the times in the jurors minds, to create nonsense arguments in the deliberation room. I hope the DA is up to the challenge of keeping the focus on the sequence tight and strong.
 
The timing is interesting. According to the evidence, Liberty German took a picture at 2:05pm of the Monon High Bridge looking across it before her and Abby got on it to walk across. At 2:07pm, Libby took the famous last picture of Abby on the Monon High Bridge. It does not look like anyone is behind Abby in the 2:07 pm picture. It also does not look like anyone is on the other side of the bridge in Liberty German's 2:05pm picture.

If Kelsie German dropped the girls off at around 1:30 pm at the side entrance that most people know about, then I think we could reasonably guess that it does not take 35 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge from that entrance. Maybe the girls were messing around on the trail or walking around other parts before finally going to the Monon High Bridge? This would make sense that Richard Allen would be able to catch up to them to watch them.

One thing I wondered is, if no one was around, could he have abducted them before they ever got on the bridge? Would it be possible to still be able to walk to the area where the eventual crime scene was located if they left the trail and were marched into the woods before even getting onto the Monon High Bridge?

It is possible Richard Allen lied, but it is also too bad that when Liberty German took that 2:05pm photo looking across the Monon High Bridge she did not turn around pretending to take a picture of the trail and take another photo. Maybe she would have caught Richard Allen following them?

Why did Richard Allen wait until they crossed the bridge before committing the crime? How many other pictures did Liberty German take with her phone before the one at 2:05 pm?

Why did he wait for them to cross the bridge?

So that they were trapped. He didn't want to try to march them across that bridge at a slow pace OR even try to make them walk east across the steep hilly banks on the north side of the bridge.

IMO, he was able to stay at the north end of the bridge and look back across his shoulder and see that nobody else was coming up the trail to the bridge. Since he had been at the bridge before them, he knew they were the only ones there.
 
Over the years, LE has mentioned having more audio from L's phone. We know, per the RL affidavit, about the 43 second BG video, and that in the video, A can be seen walking on the bridge with BG behind her.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

What we don't know is if the girls made any other video/audio recordings while on the trail that afternoon, before reaching the bridge. Was the "stuff girls talk about" limited to the end of the bridge while BG was behind them, or could there be other audio from the trail? My hope is that maybe something somewhere in the audio/video, the girls said something that puts them and BG in the right place at the right time, like on the trail before the bridge, to help narrow down the timeline of when RA was there. Too hopeful on my part?
 
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Why did Richard Allen wait until they crossed the bridge before committing the crime? How many other pictures did Liberty German take with her phone before the one at 2:05 pm?
RSBM. It's a good question. I know a lot of people think the location the bodies were found was BG's planned kill location, but I'm not convinced of that. I think it's just as likely he crossed the bridge after them to not only trap them, but perhaps carry out his intended crimes somewhere below the south end of the bridge, and the creek crossing was a secondary event.

If RA is indeed BG, I think from the platform, he was scoping out the entire area to where a good location might be. Just because he was familiar with the trail/bridge, does not mean he knew the back way (from the North end of bridge) to below the cemetery, or whatever. Whether he intended to cross the creek or not, he could plan it all out from atop the bridge right before the girls got there...if he knew they were coming. Lots of unknowns, IMO.
 
RSBM. It's a good question. I know a lot of people think the location the bodies were found was BG's planned kill location, but I'm not convinced of that. I think it's just as likely he crossed the bridge after them to not only trap them, but perhaps carry out his intended crimes somewhere below the south end of the bridge, and the creek crossing was a secondary event.

If RA is indeed BG, I think from the platform, he was scoping out the entire area to where a good location might be. Just because he was familiar with the trail/bridge, does not mean he knew the back way (from the North end of bridge) to below the cemetery, or whatever. Whether he intended to cross the creek or not, he could plan it all out from atop the bridge right before the girls got there...if he knew they were coming. Lots of unknowns, IMO.
IMO, he definitely did not want to walk back on the trail after he did the unthinkable. I think he planned on walking out through the cemetery. The bluffs along the creek prevent access to much of the area, he knew this.
 
IMO, he definitely did not want to walk back on the trail after he did the unthinkable. I think he planned on walking out through the cemetery. The bluffs along the creek prevent access to much of the area, he knew this.
Planning to walk out through the cemetery does make sense, but then why not park there? It's a long ways back to the CPS lot via woods along the trail, the road, or an open field. Jmo.

In my own view, him parking at the CPS lot suggests one of two things: 1) he did not intend on doing anything nefarious that day (and always carried weapons on him), or 2) he did plan nefarious activities but did not have time to plan it all out, like where to park, etc. I lean towards number 2.
 
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Over the years, LE has mentioned having more audio from L's phone. We know, per the RL affidavit, about the 43 second BG video, and that in the video, A can be seen walking on the bridge with BG behind her.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

What we don't know is if the girls made any other video/audio recordings while on the trail that afternoon, before reaching the bridge. Was the "stuff girls talk about" limited to the end of the bridge while BG was behind them, or could there be other audio from the trail? My hope is that maybe something somewhere in the audio/video, the girls said something that puts them and BG in the right place at the right time, like on the trail before the bridge, to help narrow down the timeline of when RA was there. Too hopeful on my part?

I don't think it's too hopeful to think that there are more pictures or videos on Libby's phone that will be useful to the prosecution - or if it is, I share that hope:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.


Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

I think we will find out at trial that there are more photos from her phone that help build out the timeline that RA placed himself into.
 
Planning to walk out through the cemetery does make sense, but then why not park there? It's a long ways back to the CPS lot via woods along the trail, the road, or an open field. Jmo.

In my own view, him parking at the CPS lot suggests one of two things: 1) he did not intend on doing anything nefarious that day (and always carried weapons on him), or 2) he did plan nefarious activities but did not have time to plan it all out, like where to park, etc. I lean towards number 2.
Or.... it was a planned abduction that went prematurely sideways. I remain open to the possibility of a (second) vehicle for transport.
JMO
 
I don't think it's too hopeful to think that there are more pictures or videos on Libby's phone that will be useful to the prosecution - or if it is, I share that hope:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.

Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?

A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.


Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

I think we will find out at trial that there are more photos from her phone that help build out the timeline that RA placed himself into.
I'm also curious if there'd been any attempts in the days/weeks prior ...

JMO
 
It came out in the probable cause that one of the girls said gun in the video.The video ends as they go down the hill.
It hasn't been shown just referenced
Which is what I was saying, no video that we're aware of. One person is saying there is video of him abducting the girls, another says we see him on video abducting the girls and others seem to be saying there is more video. Is this presumption, known facts or deducing from what is already available?
 
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