Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

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Other than the prison record, not much seems to be known about MG, did he ever have a job or go to school after he was returned to the UK, what did he do for fun (in the UK not US!) again- did he keep in contact perhaps through mail delivery with fellow Florida prisoners?
What connections, friends did MG make, how did he support himself before his UK <modsnip>?
speculation, imo.
This is the only info I have seen ..

Since meeting in London in 2016, the couple is believed to have led a reclusive existence, with Ms. Marten, a theatre student at the time, severing links with her family and acquaintances.

Gordon is said to have resided nearby and worked as a labourer, though it is unclear how they met.

 
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We don't know if there was a search activated before the car caught fire.
I had assumed so.

Because, really, what kind of people, living in a car where she'd just given birth two days earlier and that they hadn't cleaned up yet, would just abandon that home when it caught fire on a motorway, taking only what they could carry, and disappear - on foot, in the dark - into the unknown countryside to eventually find a taxi to drive them far away?

No flagging other motorists down: help, my wife just had a baby and our car is on fire, can you call 911, our car might explode and injure people, and we need a place to go...?

<modsnip>

JMO
 
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For the benefit of anyone still doubting that families sleep rough in London, this is a news story from 2018 about a fire that broke out in a homeless camp in a little park close to the Barking Road/North Circular interchange, which is a couple of roads away from where CM and MG were dropped by the taxi they took from Essex. I'm not local so I don't know if that particular camp is still there, but the article illustrates the general problem, which imo is only likely to have become worse since 2018.

Fire crews tackle ‘out of control’ bonfire at homeless camp in East Ham
<modsnip> I’m sure, in the whole country, social services has not provided houses to every single child out there. This article says there were children’s items found indicating children lived there. I’m not sure why people are so quick to say that there are no unhoused children.
 
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<modsnip> I’m sure, in the whole country, social services has not provided houses to every single child out there. This article says there were children’s items found indicating children lived there. I’m not sure why people are so quick to say that there are no unhoused children.

Social care don’t provide houses to families. They work with the local housing departments who would provide emergency housing to a homeless parent and child. Emergency housing is often a hotel initially then they become priority for the councils stock of temporary or standard housing.

If the housing department refused to house the family (eg they discharged their duty due to particular circumstances such as an adult making themselves intentionally homeless) social care would typically cover the hotel costs until a long term solution was found
 
Social care don’t provide houses to families. They work with the local housing departments who would provide emergency housing to a homeless parent and child. Emergency housing is often a hotel initially then they become priority for the councils stock of temporary or standard housing.

If the housing department refused to house the family (eg they discharged their duty due to particular circumstances such as an adult making themselves intentionally homeless) social care would typically cover the hotel costs until a long term solution was found
Someone above stated there was zero chance that they wouldn’t be recognized living amongst the homeless with a child because the UK does not allow any child to remain homeless. That is clearly not the case. Homes/hotels/etc is just semantics.
 
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Would the couple be welcomed and maybe hidden within the traveller community?

I very much doubt it to be honest, the travelling community are quite insular. They don't tend to mix with "Gorja's" as they call non travellers in anything other than passing in my experience.
 
Realistically how long can the police keep this high intense search going for? It's been close to 3 weeks since the last publicly released sighting of them. I wonder if CM and GM think they can wait the clock out so to speak and once the newspapers have moved onto the next story and they're nothing but a distant memory they'll be able to go back to living low like they were pre baby.
 
Realistically how long can the police keep this high intense search going for? It's been close to 3 weeks since the last publicly released sighting of them. I wonder if CM and GM think they can wait the clock out so to speak and once the newspapers have moved onto the next story and they're nothing but a distant memory they'll be able to go back to living low like they were pre baby.
We don't know what they think.
They're not talking.
We don't know anything about their relationship or abilities jointly to process problems in their lives.
In fact we don't even have the faintest of ideas in this regard.
 
Someone above stated there was zero chance that they wouldn’t be recognized living amongst the homeless with a child because the UK does not allow any child to remain homeless. That is clearly not the case. Homes/hotels/etc is just semantics.
When we moved to this site from the old site it took me ages to grasp the method for tracking back conversations so one can read what it was the poster was addressing.
This might be useful for new members, there are quite a few.
If you klik the arrow beside the poster's name it will take you to the original post and back and back.
I think it's sometimes the cause of confusion here.

You are correct btw @PNW. Many children do, in fact live on the streets of every country in the world, probably.
 
I think the main concern is for the police and social services at this point is the fact they've not made contact.

The media speculates, as it does, but there is some reason to be concerned that they've not even made contact with someone to say 'hey, we're all good, we just don't want a conventional life'. It's concerning for all 3 of them that they haven't done that. I believe that's why this has gone from a private affair that began in a bizarre way to a public affair where the general public are informed.

It is possible that the mum and the baby have in fact been checked out by a medical centre who, unless they have concerns about the infant, can't pass on those details to other services -- even the police.

Again, my social work training was a while ago and things change, but we have things similar to HIPPA here which means health information can't just be casually shared unless there's a concern for the health and welfare of the child.

So it is entirely possible mum and baby (and even dad) have gone to a walk-in health centre, since an A&E is possibly too public and may have police in by chance, been checked over, and the professionals who checked them have no concerns for the infant, or no concerns that raise the bar high enough to involve social services. (ETA: This is just IMO, there is no proof this has or has not happened.)

It is a very very tricky line to cross between people living how they want, and keeping kids (especially newborns) safe. It is one professionals on both sides have to consider when it comes to sharing information between services and especially with the general public and media.

Would I personally have concerns if I knew that mum and dad are sleeping rough with a newborn? Of course, but that would be coming from a personal, emotional angle. If someone is thinking with their professional head, they might not think their non-conventional life is concerning enough to elevate it and break confidentiality.

If medical professionals started giving information to social services every single time they had a personal concern that someone isn't raising a child the way they would, then people would stop going to medical professionals out of fear. It isn't always clear if there should be a concern. If a baby presents with frequently broken bones that it couldn't have broken by itself and has no medical condition that causes that fragility, then of course social services should be involved -- that's nice and clear. Obviously, this is me being extreme to make that point especially clear, that there's levels to concerns about a baby or child.

But someone going with a healthy baby (and you don't have to disclose how or where you're living) that you may think could be swaddled better or is a little chilly or has parents who don't live the same life you live makes it more complicated. You can't report an otherwise healthy baby to social services just because the parents use a box instead of a crib, for example. You may refer them on to parenting services and try to get them home visits, but they have the right to refuse those things, too -- again, without that raising the bar of concern high enough to ignore privacy.

My main point, mid-ramble, was that it's entirely possible they have had medical exams, but that the concern continues from the angles of social services and the police because these people have made a choice not to be in contact with them or someone who can verify that things are okay.
Great post - loads of rational and well articulated thoughts! Made me think that there is a high chance there’s more to it that we don’t know about.
- Perhaps some kind of existing issue in place around C and M being allowed custody of a child
- Health/mental health/addiction issues for either parent or the baby that we’re not privy to
- Some kind of behaviour/conversation/interaction with people they know, prior to the car catching on fire, that’s raised red flags about their wellbeing

Could be endless details we’re not privy to beyond a simple concern that mum and baby haven’t seems a doctor since birth.

Occam’s razor tells me the police and press aren’t going this hard to find them if there’s not a good reason. Yes there can be all sorts of other theories but the most obvious one is usually the right one.

All speculation on my part.
 
I very much doubt it to be honest, the travelling community are quite insular. They don't tend to mix with "Gorja's" as they call non travellers in anything other than passing in my experience.
Yeah not a chance unless they have extensive blood family ties already, and there are no indications they do. Travellers are not about to take the heat of high profile police investigation crawling all over their sites for anything less.

A newborn in a homless camp in winter would absolutely attract attention. Nor would it stay hidden for long because other homeless people would know best of all how <modsnip> dangerous sleeping in a cheap tent with a week's old baby in subzero temperatures would be.

While there are probably a handful of children truly living rough, (most 16/17,) young kids and especially babies get put in temporary accommodation by the council. The homeless kids statistics include theses kids, as well as those families staying with family/friends, in hotels etc.

Nomadic lifestyle is one thing, plenty do it with kids in vans and canal boats and caravans. Dangerously inadequate shelter for a fragile newborn in winter would not fly. If Social Services became aware of parents with young kids living fully on the streets and they refused to be housed, the kids would simply be taken into care.

Hopefully the tent is a just-in-case thing, though, it seems they prioritised getting it the day they got into London. You would hope if MG really intended to camp out in winter he'd have got a better tent (although that could be out of ignorance, he might have little experience camping.) Best case scenario they are holed up in some friends back room waiting for the heat to die down.
 
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Articles claimed that they have been reclusive for years and years, so they are obviously expert at laying low, keeping off the radar. If they start moving around, there is significantly more chance of them being spotted and tracked so presumably they are hiding away in one place, let’s hope it’s not in that tent.
 
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Yeah not a chance unless they have extensive blood family ties already, and there are no indications they do. Travellers are not about to take the heat of high profile police investigation crawling all over their sites for anything less.

A newborn in a homless camp in winter would absolutely attract attention. Nor would it stay hidden for long because other homeless people would know best of all how <modsnip> dangerous sleeping in a cheap tent with a week's old baby in subzero temperatures would be.

While there are probably a handful of children truly living rough, (most 16/17,) young kids and especially babies get put in temporary accommodation by the council. The homeless kids statistics include theses kids, as well as those families staying with family/friends, in hotels etc.

Nomadic lifestyle is one thing, plenty do it with kids in vans and canal boats and caravans. Dangerously inadequate shelter for a fragile newborn in winter would not fly. If Social Services became aware of parents with young kids living fully on the streets and they refused to be housed, the kids would simply be taken into care.

Hopefully the tent is a just-in-case thing, though, it seems they prioritised getting it the day they got into London. You would hope if MG really intended to camp out in winter he'd have got a better tent (although that could be out of ignorance, he might have little experience camping.) Best case scenario they are holed up in some friends back room waiting for the heat to die down.
This. They wouldn't certainly not be accepted by travellers but let's not forget about the squatting community

I spent about 1.5 years in a well organized squat in london in my late teens and there were many people with children who were part of alternative lifestyles and in this case, i could imagine some anti- establishment sorts helping the family to lay low for a time, but ehile i doubt that would last this long, i could certainly see it working for them in the past.

There is also no shortage of squats and squat-able places, ways to access heat and electricity and have a somewhat comfortable place to live for a time.

I imagine at this point, given the coverage they have received, they are keeping to themselves and if they was any interaction with people, it would be strictly with those who have the same views of gov't institutions and authority as they do.

But if it was simply that, there would be no fuss. Imho there is more to the story.
 
Totally off the wall thought but the trio could be getting assustance from family members who believe they need be protected from enemy forces. MOO

“………But it is Napier’s feed of posts – many shared since Constance’s disappearance – that paints a picture of his politics: criticims of the mainstream press; memes mocking Meghan Markle and Prince Harry; news articles about global warming being “a complete hoax” and conspiracy theories about aeroplane trails, the Covid vaccine and the “creature” that is Microsoft founder Bill Gates…..”
 
With MG's conviction IMO/IME I would guess that SS were aware of unborn baby and flight risk warnings were sent to local authorities around the country or in areas they had links to.

Several forces, West Yorks, South Yorks, 6th Jan Essex, MET by 9th Jan were quick to appeal for information on their whereabouts soon after Greater Manchester police, so that lead me to believe they were on police radar before the car fire incident.
My understanding is that nothing could have been done to stop CM leaving the country with the unborn baby. It's only after the baby is born that anything can be done.
 
Talk off MG being a labourer has reminded me. When I lived in NW London there was a place in Cricklewood where immigrant workers would go and what every morning and tradesmen would come and pick up people to take on to work for the day, off the books. I imagine there's a few places like this around London. It could be a way for MG to make money to support them all while living covertly.
 
My understanding is that nothing could have been done to stop CM leaving the country with the unborn baby. It's only after the baby is born that anything can be done.
The baby isn’t legally a child until after birth.

If social care were going to issue care proceedings (to request a judge make an order for baby to be removed) they would have informed parents during the pregnancy but could not have filed papers with the court until after baby was born.
 
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