UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

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It wasn't just that there were numerous collapses. There were numerous near-fatal collapses during which the babies were unusually difficult to resuscitate. When the babies were removed from Letby's orbit, they made speedy recoveries, according to the prosecution.

I think that is what makes the collapses significant.
That was definitely one bit I wasn’t sure of at all. Couldn’t quite figure out how one collapse was different from another and then none of them seemed very healthy or without problems, thus seemingly already compromised health. Totally get difficulty in resus for an iv air embolism though. Thank you.
 
The Ibiza trip mentioned was with her friends. I do wonder what they think of this. Do they think she's wrongly accused of a crime she didn't commit?
It would be useful to hear more about what her colleagues/friends thought of her.

It doesn't change the medical evidence in any way, but it would help in providing a more rounded picture
 
Snipped by me
Interesting, so in the cases where LL is accused of attempted murder during her night shift, the babies tend to deteriorate during her night shift and then improve during the following day shift. And in this case, where LL is accused of attempted murder during her day shift, the baby deterioarates during her day shift and then improves during the following night shift.

Also, I wonder who and what she was referring to here: "I am a bit up and down. Have not had nice shifts and not been feeling supported by some people."
The last quote you mentioned is another example of her me, myself and I attitude imo. Unless we are not seeing the entirety of the message, there is no mention of the baby who nearly died on her shift, just LL feeling sorry for herself.

Also, regarding the notes "mummy visiting, carrying out feeds and cares" which the defense say could have occurred from 8am to the point the note was made, I am an English teacher and the -ing form is called present continuous and is used for something that is happening contemporaneously. So I would interpret the mother's visit as being in progress whilst the note was being written. Otherwise it would have said " mother visited."

I have no experience of nurses' note-taking so stand to be corrected if there is a process involved, however, the other notes appear to use a variety of tenses that make absolute sense in the context eg. 'did not wake for feed at 1600 therefore NG Tube feed given'. ( past simple - something that has already happened) and 'Colour appears pale but improved from earlier in shift. ( present simple - current status).
 
It would be useful to hear more about what her colleagues/friends thought of her.

It doesn't change the medical evidence in any way, but it would help in providing a more rounded picture
Sub j.
I still don't remember this particular Eng? expression :)

ETA
(Latin) sub judice
 
Sub j.
I still don't remember this particular Eng? expression :)

ETA
(Latin) sub judice
Less one sided, without bias, not based on little information, detailed, complete or as close to being complete within reason. Assuming you mean “well rounded”. If used in reference to a person normally means they are good at many things or they have some of everything, not too much of one thing or another. “He was a well rounded footballer”.
 
Snipped by me
Interesting, so in the cases where LL is accused of attempted murder during her night shift, the babies tend to deteriorate during her night shift and then improve during the following day shift. And in this case, where LL is accused of attempted murder during her day shift, the baby deterioarates during her day shift and then improves during the following night shift.

Also, I wonder who and what she was referring to here: "I am a bit up and down. Have not had nice shifts and not been feeling supported by some people."
She does also show sensitivity to the issue of planning (IMO) by saying I wasn't expecting to work.

To a colleague after baby A's death - LL: 'I wasn't supposed to be in either - [boss] swapped my nights as unit busy

baby I - LL messaged Jennifer Jones-Key to say she had been originally taken off the Sep 30 shift for working the previous Wednesday night, but was later put back on the shift.

JMO
 
So the Baby I if survived, would have been severely disabled due to brain damage.

It was the 2nd case.

Im afraid to ask if other victims who survived also suffer from brain damage?
 
"Giving evidence on Friday, [GP] Dr Beebe said: "I remember Lucy crying with another nurse and it was very much of the gist of 'it's always me when it happens, my babies, it's always happening to me a lot'."
Prosecutor Philip Astbury asked: "Who was saying that?
Dr Beebe replied: "Lucy."
Mr Astbury said: "You can't remember precisely when that was?"
"No," said the witness.

[...]

Dr Beebe said: "I recall (Child I) because it was unusual that she was seemingly well and then became unwell.

"In my memory I felt like she was shipped out to a tertiary centre, made a rapid recovery and then was brought back very quickly.
"It certainly stuck in my memory because it had never happened to a baby I had been involved in the care of before or since, at any of the neo-natal units I worked at."
Asked about her reaction to Child I's death, she replied: "Shock and frustration at the time because on reflection I felt there was something else going on with (Child I) that we were not getting to the bottom of."

'It's always me when it happens': GP tells murder trial of Lucy Letby's tears

Lucy Letby: Accused nurse in baby murder trial cried 'it's always me when it happens', court hears
 
So the Baby I if survived, would have been severely disabled due to brain damage.

It was the 2nd case.

Im afraid to ask if other victims who survived also suffer from brain damage?
Unfortunately.

Baby M

A paediatric neuroradiologist reviewed a brain scan on May 2016 and found brain damage for Child M, likely caused by the cardio-respiratory collapse on April 9.

Possibly Baby Q

A professor reviewed brain imaging of Child Q taken in November 2019 - more than three years later. He found evidence of abnormalities which whilst they were not diagnostic of him having suffered a brain injury as a result of being given excessive air and liquid via his NGT, they could be explained.
 
“Giving evidence on Friday, [GP] Dr Beebe said: "I remember Lucy crying with another nurse and it was very much of the gist of 'it's always me when it happens, my babies, it's always happening to me a lot'."
Prosecutor Philip Astbury asked: "Who was saying that?
Dr Beebe replied: "Lucy."
Mr Astbury said: "You can't remember precisely when that was?"
"No," said the witness.”


Dont take that as a sign of selfishness, that might just be someone feeling very conspicuous and victimised by misfortune. Jmo. Very very interesting indeed.
 
“Giving evidence on Friday, [GP] Dr Beebe said: "I remember Lucy crying with another nurse and it was very much of the gist of 'it's always me when it happens, my babies, it's always happening to me a lot'."
Prosecutor Philip Astbury asked: "Who was saying that?
Dr Beebe replied: "Lucy."
Mr Astbury said: "You can't remember precisely when that was?"
"No," said the witness.”


Dont take that as a sign of selfishness, that might just be someone feeling very conspicuous and victimised by misfortune. Jmo. Very very interesting indeed.
or possible guilt. (If guilty). Interesting it’s stated this was what was said by her; but there is a lack of this in her messages to colleagues. Unless we’re not seeing/hearing the whole context.
IMO
 
One part of that quote is prominent in my mind. “My babies”, does that suggest responsibility felt or otherwise? Does that suggest “possessiveness”? Does it suggest she is imitating?
very very interesting. Does it also show a lack of fear of possible association with guilt? Or is it an act?
 
One part of that quote is prominent in my mind. “My babies”, does that suggest responsibility felt or otherwise? Does that suggest “possessiveness”? Does it suggest she is imitating?
very very interesting. Does it also show a lack of fear of possible association with guilt? Or is it an act?
I’m actually just re-reading that same point thinking the same; “my babies”.

I do know some midwives refer to their patients as “their ladies”, so this can be a very genuine caring comment on one hand. On the other, if guilty, it now makes me wonder if she has lost a child herself or is creating an environment where she is positioning herself as the “bereaved grieving parent” too (IMO). I think back to the mother bathing the baby and why she kept going back in there. It’s really odd. We’re hearing she was upset and in tears (again, even this can be faked by some people), but if it’s that upsetting, why is she always “there” in the thick of all the grief. Just such a strange case IMO
 
I’m actually just re-reading that same point thinking the same; “my babies”.

I do know some midwives refer to their patients as “their ladies”, so this can be a very genuine caring comment on one hand. On the other, if guilty, it now makes me wonder if she has lost a child herself or is creating an environment where she is positioning herself as the “bereaved grieving parent” too (IMO). I think back to the mother bathing the baby and why she kept going back in there. It’s really odd. We’re hearing she was upset and in tears (again, even this can be faked by some people), but if it’s that upsetting, why is she always “there” in the thick of all the grief. Just such a strange case IMO
It’s also quite odd the mother says she didn’t have much involvement with LL, but on the other hand, LL is saying something quite different (a bit like the alleged reserved conversation about the abdomen being distended; LL stated it was the mother who raised it, the mother says it was LL).. for someone who allegedly wasn’t that involved, there’s then this sympathy card sent the parents from LL herself. None of this makes sense when also compared with other cases in the trial such as baby Es mother.

JMO
 
“Giving evidence on Friday, [GP] Dr Beebe said: "I remember Lucy crying with another nurse and it was very much of the gist of 'it's always me when it happens, my babies, it's always happening to me a lot'."
Prosecutor Philip Astbury asked: "Who was saying that?
Dr Beebe replied: "Lucy."
Mr Astbury said: "You can't remember precisely when that was?"
"No," said the witness.”


Dont take that as a sign of selfishness, that might just be someone feeling very conspicuous and victimised by misfortune. Jmo. Very very interesting indeed.

IMO she could be echoing other peoples thoughts as a sort of cover. If other colleagues are noticing the unusual amount of collapses/deaths and talking about them it would seem strange to me if she said nothing at all about them.
jmo
 
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Another nurse broke down in tears as she recalled Letby telling her a baby looked pale – even though she was standing six feet away and the infant's cot was in a darkened room with her top half covered by a canopy.

When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.

The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.

Unaware that the infant was unwell, Nurse Hudson returned to the nursery but did not immediately examine her. Instead she began preparing the milk with her back to Baby I's cot.

[...]

'She was in the doorway and said something along the lines of "(Baby) I looks pale" or "Don't you think (Baby) I looks pale?"'

Asked by Simon Driver, prosecuting, what the light was like in the nursery, Nurse Hudson replied: 'The main light for the room was switched off but the light in the corridor was on. So you were able to do things in the room and have enough light to see where your patients were and where the equipment was.'

Some light from the corridor came into the room through a window. They were sometimes kept in front of the window, but they did not obscure much of the light.

[...]

'I couldn't see her. I could see that she was in the cot, but I couldn't see the top half because she was covered by the canopy. I switched the main light on'.

Mr Driver: 'Was there anything about the layout or lighting that would have afforded her a better view of the baby than the one you had?'

Nurse Hudson replied: 'No'.

She added: 'After switching the light on I immediately went to I, pushed back the canopy and realised she was in quite poor condition'.

more at link

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'
 
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View attachment 398189

Another nurse broke down in tears as she recalled Letby telling her a baby looked pale – even though she was standing six feet away and the infant's cot was in a darkened room with her top half covered by a canopy.

When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.

The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.

Unaware that the infant was unwell, Nurse Hudson returned to the nursery but did not immediately examine her. Instead she began preparing the milk with her back to Baby I's cot.

[...]

Asked by Simon Driver, prosecuting, what the light was like in the nursery, Nurse Hudson replied: 'The main light for the room was switched off but the light in the corridor was on. So you were able to do things in the room and have enough light to see where your patients were and where the equipment was.'

Some light from the corridor came into the room through a window. They were sometimes kept in front of the window, but they did not obscure much of the light.

[...]

Mr Driver: 'Was there anything about the layout or lighting that would have afforded her a better view of the baby than the one you had?'

Nurse Hudson replied: 'No'.

She added: 'After switching the light on I immediately went to I, pushed back the canopy and realised she was in quite poor condition'.

more at link

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

I struggle with an innocent explanation for this ..how could anyone know the baby looked pale?
 
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