ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[debbiediablo]

If you go back a number of pages, you'll find my account of being mugged, where my initial response was to shut down, followed by hysteria when the violence escalated, followed by being immobile again before I and my friends were finally able to seek help. I'm not saying that my experience is identical to D's, but shutdown is a very, very common response to fear and violent crime. It's the freeze response, or a dissociative response, to being threatened. You freeze up because your brain tells you it's the way to stay safe - like a rabbit in headlights - or your brain goes into complete denial about what is happening and you either disbelieve what you're experiencing as unreal, or your brain sends you on a mundane errand, like going to the shops for milk when you've been a victim of an assault and your bottle of milk got broken and what you actually need is medical attention (this is an imaginary example of the kind of things people can do).

I am not a psychologist or any kind of expert, but there is a wealth of information out there, and here on Websleuths, about how people don't react how they think they're going to react when they are victims or witnesses of violence.

MOO

Fight, flight or hide. We're hardwired for it. My youngest daughter and I were in a car accident; afterward we went to have lunch. She has autism and was so scared and upset that she fell asleep eating. Which is much preferable to a meltdown. John (johnmccauleyphd.com) was a longtime friend. He died almost two years ago but his website is still up because there's a self-help section where he does a great job of explaining defense mechanisms.

 

[Cool Cats]

Eh, recording targeting: So someone in LE said "targeting" in the early days. The question would be what or whom was being targeted? Young women, in general? College kids, in general? One victim, in particular? The house itself, as a potential target because of its suitability for home invasion or because kids had parties there or because he had ways to surveil it? What does it even mean? And maybe even LE had some cognitive difficulty imagining a guy who just wanted to slaughter young people.

No one really knows to this day. The public demanded answers and LE just didn't know and as they said, could only go by current information uncovered in the investigation. The police desperately wanted to know what to say to reassure and advise the public.

Have lock downs? Warn people? It was scary and unprecedented in that area and overwhelming for a small rural town police department. A police department used to noise complaints, not used to homicide scenes.

I would be anxious for answers from the police. Should I assume a killer is out there targeting other homes? My home? Other student's homes?
Will he strike again?

If it was targeted then the community feels that another house - another student - won't be next because the killer killed his targets and was done.

LE says it appears BK targeted and stalked these specific students so they can now reassure the good folks in Moscow and the University staff and students of Idaho that the vicious cowardly cold blooded killer is locked away and won't be stalking anyone again except from behind bars.

Which is why he has his own cell. Even the Sheriff, who runs the jail, probably doesn't want to subject another person to BK by making them share close quarters with him.

They also need to protect BK from being killed or injured, the People of the State of Idaho want justice and need BK alive and healthy for that to happen.

2 Cents

 

[jepop]

snipped for focus

I agree with your post until we get to this part. Why would KG and MM choose MM's single bed when they could share (from crime scene photos) the big bed in KG's room? Plus DM thought she heard KG, directly above her, playing with her dog. I think the event began with everyone in their own beds and somehow ended with KG falling in MM's bed. <moo>

It's what I infer from my reading of the PCA. I've discussed it over several previous posts so won't repeat here. MOO

 

[B4igo2it]

I know lots of people can't grasp why DM called friends before police, this case here in the UK with the headteacher killed by her husband, she rang her sister 7 minutes before she was shot. She never rang the police and she was obviously a grown adult. I think in a fear moment it's just impossible to act rationally that those who have the benefit of hindsight have

I agree with you QB. The thought of calling the police may not have entered her thoughts. Poor DM.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

When Cary Stayner sent the letter to LE letting them know the location of Julie Sund's body, he had some random kid lick the envelope at the post office. BK should have had some stranger, maybe unaware male kid, touch the sheath. Cary Shayner said he learned his tricks watching the Discover Channel. IMO

Stunning details in Stayner's confession / In taped statement, handyman tells of slaying Yosemite tourists

Stunning details in Stayner's confession / In taped statement, handyman tells of slaying...

www.sfgate.com

The accused killer's cleaning of the room was so complete he even wiped his hairs off the bedsheet. An FBI agent asked him on the tape why he did that, and he replied: "I watch the Discovery Channel."

Since @SophieRose brought Cary Stayner up … please note how quickly/easily he was able to shift targets when his primary & secondary target groups didn’t work out. It was very, VERY quickly.

Given the lack of connection disclosed so far, I’ve often wondered if perhaps the same happened with BCK — that perhaps Xana, Maddie, Kaylee, & Ethan weren’t the initial target(s) but rather a tragic & horrific last-minute substitution?

Of course, it’s also possible BCK targeted one or more of those who lived in the house & they never had a single clue, etc.

But I’ve never forgotten the way Stayner was able to quickly shifted his focus when factors interrupted his predation.

MOO

Edited to correct punctuation error

 

[10ofRods]

It's not Maddie's room over the kitchen, but Kaylee's room. If there was blood in that room then the dog Murphy most likely would have blood on her and they say she didn't. Did something first happen in the kitchen? Or are they blood stains but something left over from Friday night's party?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/05/04/65103395-11487643-As_cops_prepare_to_turn_over_the_house_back_to_its_landlord_the_-a-200_1670213711030.jpg

Ah, then that author is very much in error. There was no evidence of crime in Kaylee's room, according to LE (stated at press conference early on, in many MSM articles, IMO).

Well...the alleged blood stains (both on the outside of the house and on the kitchen cabinets) has never been said to be blood by LE. It's a really strange situation (poorly insulated/sealed house??)

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I know lots of people can't grasp why DM called friends before police, this case here in the UK with the headteacher killed by her husband, she rang her sister 7 minutes before she was shot. She never rang the police and she was obviously a grown adult. I think in a fear moment it's just impossible to act rationally that those who have the benefit of hindsight have

I agree. I would add to that I think we all have our "go to" people we are close to who we would instinctually reach out to in moments of distress, for comfort, to help us process what we're experiencing, and to use as a sounding board to help us decide whether and what we should do next.

I think this is why DM reached out to her housemates and friends before thinking of calling 911, as she really was not sure what may have been going on in the early hours of that day, based on what she thought she heard and saw even if she was scared by it and went into "frozen shock phase".

One scenario that fits, IMO, is:

• her housemates had someone over late (Kaylee & Maddie had been calling Kaylee's ex-bf Jack many times beforehand, so if he answered their calls and came over and brought a male friend with him ("Jack's friend"), that would fit with her hearing (she thought) Kaylee saying "someone is here", as would the DD delivery)
• they were playing around (she heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog)
• someone accidentally was hurt during the playing around (she heard crying and a male voice saying "it's okay, I'm going to help you")
• then when all is quiet, she sees a male she doesn't know (Jack's friend?) who is wearing a mask (which is less startling I think since Covid than it would have been before) walk past

Under such as scenario, it wouldn't seem like an emergency, even if on some level something about it all was shocking to her.

Although a call to 911 can bring immediate action from LE (depending on your location, how busy they are, and what you tell the operator who answers the call), you have to honestly believe that you are a witness to an emergency. Also, it's very much discouraged and is a punishable offense to call 911 in a non emergency situation.

So the onus was totally on her to decide if what she heard and saw early that morning constituted an emergency, and she may have been aware that she could get in trouble for calling 911 if it wasn't an emergency, and decided to wait it out until she could bounce things off a friend and have them assist her.

All this is MOO, including MOO that what DM did or didn't do is irrelevant to the survival of the victims and the murders and solving them.

Per 911.gov:

"While you may know that you should call 911 in an emergency, you may not be sure of when you should not call 911. Too often, requests to 911 do not involve a true emergency, which overloads the 911 system with non-emergency calls. Here are some answers to common questions Americans have about 911."

FAQ About Calling 911

Per Idaho law:

"TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 67
COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY
18-6711A. FALSE ALARMS — COMPLAINTS — REPORTS — PENALTIES — CIVIL DAMAGES. (a) Any person calling the number "911" for the purpose of making a false alarm or complaint and reporting false information which could or does result in the emergency response of any firefighting, police, medical or other emergency services shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be sentenced to a fine of not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or to a term of not to exceed one (1) year in the county jail, or to both such fine and imprisonment."

Section 18-6711A – Idaho State Legislature.

 

[jepop]

I know lots of people can't grasp why DM called friends before police, this case here in the UK with the headteacher killed by her husband, she rang her sister 7 minutes before she was shot. She never rang the police and she was obviously a grown adult. I think in a fear moment it's just impossible to act rationally that those who have the benefit of hindsight have

Personally, I don't consider it any of my business why DM called friends before police and I don't believe the reason/s has/have any bearing on the actions of the killer or on the guilt or otherwise of the arrested suspect. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Kentucky mom says Bryan Kohberger is her 'divine masculine' and claims she sent him letters and dolled up pics

The Kentucky woman claims to write letters to Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger while he's in jail and sent him pictures of herself.

www.q13fox.com

 

[Boxer]

I know lots of people can't grasp why DM called friends before police, this case here in the UK with the headteacher killed by her husband, she rang her sister 7 minutes before she was shot. She never rang the police and she was obviously a grown adult. I think in a fear moment it's just impossible to act rationally that those who have the benefit of hindsight have

Personally I think a weird make was over and then gone.

Personally, I don't consider it any of my business why DM called friends before police and I don't believe the reason/s has/have any bearing on the actions of the killer or on the guilt or otherwise of the arrested suspect. MOO

MOO There was a ruckus, there as a weird dude. She called and no one said they were in trouble, and her mind did not deliver the unthinkable, she went to sleep.

 

[schooling]

It's not Maddie's room over the kitchen, but Kaylee's room. If there was blood in that room then the dog Murphy most likely would have blood on her and they say she didn't. Did something first happen in the kitchen? Or are they blood stains but something left over from Friday night's party?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/05/04/65103395-11487643-As_cops_prepare_to_turn_over_the_house_back_to_its_landlord_the_-a-200_1670213711030.jpg

I could have sworn is saw it reported that the dog was locked in one of the rooms.

 

[10ofRods]

Actually, they don't know for sure it was a Kabar knife based just on the sheath they found. Other poster(s) on here have indicated they bought a Kabar sheath for their knife, but their knife wasn't a Kabar. They liked the sheath and it fit their knife. I'm guessing that LE know what kind of knife was used based on the results of the autopsy that the medical examiner performed.

If by "they" you mean law enforcement, I do believe they know exactly what knife was used. There are tests that can be run by forensic radiologists to examine the metal particles of a knife. Of course, they also want the shape of the blade to match a Ka-Bar (not sure why exactly the brand matters). But Ka-Bar has a proprietary formula for the metal in the knife. So, they can likely show it was a Ka-Bar. Otherwise, it will remain "7" knife in a Ka-Bar Sheath." Ka-bar style knife.

The autopsy should be able to say with certainty whether it's a KaBar brand with a specific metallurgical profile OR some other non-proprietary knife OR a different knife altogether. If it's important. Since it appears to have disappeared, and I don't think anyone is hopeful it will turn up soon, it doesn't much matter, IMO.

It's what I infer from my reading of the PCA. I've discussed it over several previous posts so won't repeat here. MOO

I would submit that we don't exactly what size bed that Maddie had. It sure looked to me like they pulled two full size or bigger mattresses out of the house (maybe more) when the Public Defender came with her investigators.

Blood-stained mattresses removed from home where Idaho students were slain

Law enforcement officers were seen Friday removing two mattresses that appeared to be stained with blood from the Moscow home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death.

nypost.com

One mattress is shown being carried by two men, it definitely looks Queen to me (at least a double). The other mattress (the bloody one) is in the truck and looks to be the same size.

"Single bed" to me means that there was just one bed in the room, not necessarily its size. But, where I live, we'd say "twin bed" not "single bed."

I think you and I are more or less on the same page.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I could have sworn is saw it reported that the dog was locked in one of the rooms.

Yes - PCA says Murphy was in Kaylee's room, which was not a murder scene.

Idaho police offer new details about Kaylee Goncalves’ dog at the crime scene

Investigators previously revealed that the dog was found inside the home when officers arrived on the scene of the murders on 13 November

www.independent.co.uk

It can be inferred that it was Kaylee's room (the only other rooms where no murders occurred would be D's or B's - and I think they would have said that, if it were so). Murphy was apparently in the room by himself. IMO.

AH - here's the article that says Murphy was in Kaylee's room, unharmed:

Idaho victim Kaylee's dog Murphy gets his own Instagram account

The account featuring sweet images of the goldendoodle appeared on Tuesday, and within a day had garnered more than 53,000 followers and scores of comments expressing sympathy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

IMO

 

[Montecore1]

...should have had some stranger, maybe unaware male kid, touch the sheath

Maybe the killer did?

 

[Boxer]

Maybe the killer did?

SODDI, stole the Elantra and the phone too?

 

[Montecore1]

SODDI, stole the Elantra and the phone too?

"A" white Elantra in the area and non-pinpoint cell phone pings do not put that person inside 1122 King...

 

[wary]

I could have sworn is saw it reported that the dog was locked in one of the rooms.

The PCA says that there was a dog ‘in the room’ when the officers first responded. That’s not the same as ‘locked in the room,’ but easy to see how a reporter would change it to that.

I suspect that he was latched in, or secured in some way, since an LE report said that he didn’t have blood on him.

 

[TeaTime]

JMHO, but it is likely that Murphy jumped out of the bed where he was snuggled with the girls and ran to the door or even to the landing to jump up and greet BK, then she heard the adjacent bathroom door close and "someone is here".

DM heard the dog's jumping about, then the words.

It is entirely possible that the front door was not closed properly after the DD delivery.

When bodies fall, they don't make a loud thud.

People are shocked when they get stabbed and the killer can stab many times in the 2 seconds it takes for the victim to respond. I have been told by a Lt. Det. that if someone comes at you with a knife, know you will be cut, anticipate it and keep fighting or running. Those seconds are crucial.

All JMHO except for the LE advice. That was his lesson.

And the part about the bodies, that is from experience.

 

[TeaTime]

"A" white Elantra in the area and non-pinpoint cell phone pings do not put that person inside 1122 King...

The DNA does.

 

[SophieRose]

'Is his name out there?' Authorities search unsolved cases for links to Idaho murder suspect

Authorities in at least two Pennsylvania counties where Bryan Kohberger went to college have made no connection to cold cases.

www.ktvb.com

9:01 AM MST February 7, 2023

Authorities have previously said that the 28-year-old Kohberger has no prior criminal record.
However, since Kohberger was a student at Northampton Community College in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania authorities took a deeper dive into records. He may have also attended classes at a satellite campus in Monroe County. Using a crime information center, authorities in Northampton County searched records of unsolved cases using Kohberger’s height, weight, method of operation and other characteristics that could have flagged him in an unsolved crime.
Houck said authorities did not find any evidence linking Kohberger to unsolved cases.
“In fact, nothing with respect to Kohberger has come about in our investigations of cold cases or unsolved cases to this point, but we always continue to investigate and pursue leads,” Houck said.
In neighboring Lehigh County, where Kohberger spent four years studying criminology on the campus of DeSales University, District Attorney Jim Martin asked the same questions.
After Kohberger’s arrest on Dec. 30, Martin said, “The first thing I did was ask the director of the RIC (Regional Intelligence and Investigation Center) to see if we had any contact with Mr. Kohberger.”
That database includes six million police reports and related data. It showed only one contact with Kohberger: a 911 call in which his car was locked behind a parked gate on a bike trail.
“And there was a response from him thanking the police and apologizing for the inconvenience,” Martin said.
Martin said the probe by his office has not found links to Kohberger and any unsolved crimes.
“We have no unsolved homicides that in any way meet the modus operandi of this event out in Idaho," Martin said.

I wonder how many miles he has on his car, less to/from Idaho, seems like he might just drive around all over, not stick to his own county or where he went to school.