MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

[Erutan]

Except, not. I have been there, as have many others. There are so limited beds many places. People sometimes sit in the ER psych "holding" rooms for weeks on end, or are sent home because there's no beds opening any time soon that their insurance will cover.

So sorry that you have endured that !

I was speaking solely about my coworker's relative.
There is another case with somewhat similar circumstances (friend of a friend), where a person asked another family member to help them as they felt they were dangerous to themselves.
They received outpatient treatment and took their meds, and they've been doing better, it's now five years on.
There were other options besides the one Lindsay chose.
M00.

 

[spicyrock]

So sorry that you have endured that !

I was speaking solely about my coworker's relative.
There is another case with somewhat similar circumstances (friend of a friend), where a person asked another family member to help them as they felt they were dangerous to themselves.
They received outpatient treatment and took their meds, and they've been doing better, it's now five years on.
There were other options besides the one Lindsay chose.
M00.

She was trying to get help, though- trying to work through treatment and trying meds. That’s the thing that makes me feel like her medical care wasn’t responding or wasn’t seeing her illness or was prescribing the wrong meds. She was trying. Something went wrong there. Sometimes insurance won’t pay, like that poster said, sometimes there are no beds and sometimes doctors won’t listen and sometimes treatment doesn’t work. Some illnesses can be incredibly hard to treat. There may have been options that she wasn’t able to access; she may have believed she had no other way out even though we can see another way out from our outside perspective. But she was trying. That’s something.

 

[Bostongirl]

I’m not sure I see everything the way the prosecutor does. I for one use Google maps/Apple Maps every single day to figure out how far something is. For instance, why is looking at Apple Maps to see how far the Plymouth restaurant was is a bad thing? My take on it is that she could’ve been thinking is that too far to send him for takeout? Like any wife would.

Also, in terms of her journal entries, I don’t see anything that really stands out to me. Yes, there is the notation about her resenting her older children, because of the relationship with her youngest, but what mother doesn’t have those thoughts? She didn’t have enough time with the baby due to the older kids needs. The difference is she wrote this thought down, in a private journal. Would it have been better if she was out for a glass of wine with friends, and talking about how she wish she had more one on one time with the baby to a friend?

Just some thoughts. The idea of hearing a man’s voice telling me to kill my children is so foreign, and if it’s true, I can imagine how scary and powerless you might feel.

All my own thoughts, MOO

 

[Which_pancake]

I’m not sure I see everything the way the prosecutor does. I for one use Google maps/Apple Maps every single day to figure out how far something is. For instance, why is looking at Apple Maps to see how far the Plymouth restaurant was is a bad thing? My take on it is that she could’ve been thinking is that too far to send him for takeout? Like any wife would.

Snipped and bolded for focus.

This is kind of what I was thinking. The DA said something to the effect of "she checked maps to see how long he would be gone." Now if they interviewed LC and she said that is why she checked it, that is one thing. But if they saw from an examination of her phone that maps was checked, they can't affirmatively say WHY it was checked. She could have wondered "where exactly is this place?" or "is it so far the food will be cold when he gets back?" or "will I have enough time to commit murder and suicide?" We just can't say at this point. MOO

 

[SpideySense]

But there was something else there that made her do what no one else on this board that has suffered through similar experiences do. And that's why my heart breaks for the kids, why I'm devastated for the husband. But also why I cannot bring myself to feel much sympathy for LC herself. She did what so many others didn't in similar situations.

IMO, the missing ingredient is narcissism. Narcissistic mothers (and fathers) often annihilate their children emotionally, but some annihilate them physically. Alex Murdaugh, Lori Vallow, etc. I’ve gone back today and looked at some of LC’s FB posts on groups like “Attachment Parenting for Littles” and “Peloton Preggos + Postpartum,” Her dismal, complaining view of her middle son, Dawson, as the most difficult person she’s ever encountered, and her repellent braggadocio on social media, are out there to see.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Got to admit after that hearing I'm now struggling to understand why she did this.

I was expecting her lawyer to bring up her mental health issues in detail, but it was more about her physical injuries.

Think I need to see more to convince me she wasn't in her right mind.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Just some thoughts. The idea of hearing a man’s voice telling me to kill my children is so foreign, and if it’s true, I can imagine how scary and powerless you might feel.

Totally understandable, but from what I gathered from the hearing was that this was the first time she heard a voice. I imagine if I suddenly heard a voice telling me to kill my children I don't think I would act on it straightaway. Can't discount it because... never say never, but again I'm struggling to understand.

 

[keek]

IMO, the missing ingredient is narcissism. Narcissistic mothers (and fathers) often annihilate their children emotionally, but some annihilate them physically. Alex Murdaugh, Lori Vallow, etc. I’ve gone back today and looked at some of LC’s FB posts on groups like “Attachment Parenting for Littles” and “Peloton Preggos + Postpartum,” Her dismal, complaining view of her middle son, Dawson, as the most difficult person she’s ever encountered, and her repellent braggadocio on social media, are out there to see.

I see you have to join the groups to view. Was it bragging about her children or herself and children? He was only a little boy being himself, how could it be otherwise. I've just had these whispers with myself of things like this about personality for some reason a while back, so interesting to see this.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Snipped and bolded for focus.

This is kind of what I was thinking. The DA said something to the effect of "she checked maps to see how long he would be gone." Now if they interviewed LC and she said that is why she checked it, that is one thing. But if they saw from an examination of her phone that maps was checked, they can't affirmatively say WHY it was checked. She could have wondered "where exactly is this place?" or "is it so far the food will be cold when he gets back?" or "will I have enough time to commit murder and suicide?" We just can't say at this point. MOO

The DA said they'd used the place before though, so she must know roughly where it is. Also 'is it so far the food will be cold when he gets back' IIRC the DA said 45 mins.? then that kind of answers the cold food question, but she still ordered from there.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Just learned of this case today. Almost wish I had not. This one palpably hurts.

Heartbreaking and soul-crushing.

 

[Which_pancake]

The DA said they'd used the place before though, so she must know roughly where it is. Also 'is it so far the food will be cold when he gets back' IIRC the DA said 45 mins.? then that kind of answers the cold food question, but she still ordered from there.

Sure, I was just throwing out possibilities. Mainly I was trying to point out that unless they have heard from LC herself why she checked maps (and they may have, I don't know), the DA can't say for certain why she checked maps, only that she did check.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Sure, I was just throwing out possibilities. Mainly I was trying to point out that unless they have heard from LC herself why she checked maps (and they may have, I don't know), the DA can't say for certain why she checked maps, only that she did check.

Yeah true, I was just trying to eliminate a couple of the reasons. It's their job, I know but the DA painted a very calculated picture yesterday. I'm disappointed her defense team didn't put up much of a defense.

Mind you it could be that they're waiting because they don't want to show their hand too soon, but other than medical records and testimony to her character what more could they have that the DA doesn't already know about?

 

[sds71]

Lindsay Clancy psychiatrist says she is 'wondering what's going on'

Dr. Paul Zeizel is a clinical psychologist in Massachusetts. He was hired by Clancy's lawyer to evaluate her, and must spend several hours a day with her in order to do so.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[spicyrock]

Lindsay Clancy psychiatrist says she is 'wondering what's going on'

Dr. Paul Zeizel is a clinical psychologist in Massachusetts. He was hired by Clancy's lawyer to evaluate her, and must spend several hours a day with her in order to do so.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Who the kids were.

Breaks your heart. <modsnip: insensitive/inappropriate> There’s no punishment worse than what’s going to happen to her mind as she continues to wake up to this reality.

 

[spicyrock]

When I’ve been thinking about this case I’ve been thinking about the most disconnected from reality I’ve ever been- manic psychosis. Earlier I said I was not sick when my child was little, but that’s not true. I wasn’t experiencing true mania, but I did have depression including psychosis, once for a long time. It was different. I felt the world wasn’t real, I couldn’t recognize my face in the mirror. I thought I was infected, invaded by parasites. It was awful. I still never once had impulses or invasive voices directed at my child but I definitely had them aimed at me, bad.

I knew what they were, though. I could fight them because I recognized them as abnormal.

If I had never heard them before? If they just popped up, especially while I was out of my mind on meds? That could have had a very different end.

 

[WillenFan21]

IMO, the missing ingredient is narcissism. Narcissistic mothers (and fathers) often annihilate their children emotionally, but some annihilate them physically. Alex Murdaugh, Lori Vallow, etc. I’ve gone back today and looked at some of LC’s FB posts on groups like “Attachment Parenting for Littles” and “Peloton Preggos + Postpartum,” Her dismal, complaining view of her middle son, Dawson, as the most difficult person she’s ever encountered, and her repellent braggadocio on social media, are out there to see.

Wish I could read these posts. Are u able to link them?

 

[SpideySense]

Wait a minute… something pretty obvious just dawned on me.

LC describes herself on her FB page as a “Labor & Delivery RN at Massachusetts General Hospital.” So, she’s an RN.

RNs have to take and pass a pretty advanced Anatomy & Physiology course - in CA that course is more rigorous and detailed than the Anat&Physio classes required for EMTs, but I’m not sure if that’s the case nationally.

Regardless, any person with medical training knows how to feel for a pulse in the radial or carotid artery. They know exactly where those critical vessels are located. They know about blood vessel collapse, clotting, etc.

According to the details from the arraignment, LC appeared to understand that the ligatures needed to remain tight around the little necks of her children for several minutes beyond the point of loss of consciousness, to ensure they would die and not spontaneously revive. Whether she was acting under a delusion of psychosis or not, she didn’t forget her medical training as she killed her children.

As an RN, LC had the knowledge to very easily complete her act of suicide, fairly quickly and without jumping out a window. I don’t want to go into details in a public forum, but for a trained professional with knowledge of anatomy, IMO it would be difficult to botch a genuine suicide attempt.

So, how can she or anyone possibly explain her huge shift in competence and ability between killing her children and killing herself? Being psychotic throughout wouldn’t explain it, nor would being depressed or suicidal.

The only way this makes sense to me is that she wanted to kill her children, but she only wanted to appear like she wanted to kill herself.

Lindsay Clancy Facebook

 

[Allabouttrial]

Lindsay Clancy psychiatrist says she is 'wondering what's going on'

Dr. Paul Zeizel is a clinical psychologist in Massachusetts. He was hired by Clancy's lawyer to evaluate her, and must spend several hours a day with her in order to do so.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I agree with his comment about her having a flat affect. Even though she had a mask on I don't think I saw her eyes or forehead move once for the duration of the trial.

 

[Erutan]

The faces of those little children and the baby haunt me.

Question :
When her husband arrived home, she was outside on the ground after having jumped, correct ?
Was the window open ?
If so and if the glass was broken, that would be odd as you'd just open your window and push the screen out to jump, right ?

Wait a minute… something pretty obvious just dawned on me.

LC describes herself on her FB page as a “Labor & Delivery RN at Massachusetts General Hospital.” So, she’s an RN.

RNs have to take and pass a pretty advanced Anatomy & Physiology course - in CA that course is more rigorous and detailed than the Anat&Physio classes required for EMTs, but I’m not sure if that’s the case nationally.

Regardless, any person with medical training knows how to feel for a pulse in the radial or carotid artery. They know exactly where those critical vessels are located. They know about blood vessel collapse, clotting, etc.

According to the details from the arraignment, LC appeared to understand that the ligatures needed to remain tight around the little necks of her children for several minutes beyond the point of loss of consciousness, to ensure they would die and not spontaneously revive. Whether she was acting under a delusion of psychosis or not, she didn’t forget her medical training as she killed her children.

As an RN, LC had the knowledge to very easily complete her act of suicide, fairly quickly and without jumping out a window. I don’t want to go into details in a public forum, but for a trained professional with knowledge of anatomy, IMO it would be difficult to botch a genuine suicide attempt.

So, how can she or anyone possibly explain her huge shift in competence and ability between killing her children and killing herself? Being psychotic throughout wouldn’t explain it, nor would being depressed or suicidal.

The only way this makes sense to me is that she wanted to kill her children, but she only wanted to appear like she wanted to kill herself.

Lindsay Clancy Facebook

Bbm.
It's been reported that she jumped, but afaik only the husband said this ?

So, wondering if she was indeed found on the ground with injuries ....

Eta : The spinal fractures would indicate jumping .
Imo.

 

[spicyrock]

Wait a minute… something pretty obvious just dawned on me.

LC describes herself on her FB page as a “Labor & Delivery RN at Massachusetts General Hospital.” So, she’s an RN.

RNs have to take and pass a pretty advanced Anatomy & Physiology course - in CA that course is more rigorous and detailed than the Anat&Physio classes required for EMTs, but I’m not sure if that’s the case nationally.

Regardless, any person with medical training knows how to feel for a pulse in the radial or carotid artery. They know exactly where those critical vessels are located. They know about blood vessel collapse, clotting, etc.

According to the details from the arraignment, LC appeared to understand that the ligatures needed to remain tight around the little necks of her children for several minutes beyond the point of loss of consciousness, to ensure they would die and not spontaneously revive. Whether she was acting under a delusion of psychosis or not, she didn’t forget her medical training as she killed her children.

As an RN, LC had the knowledge to very easily complete her act of suicide, fairly quickly and without jumping out a window. I don’t want to go into details in a public forum, but for a trained professional with knowledge of anatomy, IMO it would be difficult to botch a genuine suicide attempt.

So, how can she or anyone possibly explain her huge shift in competence and ability between killing her children and killing herself? Being psychotic throughout wouldn’t explain it, nor would being depressed or suicidal.

The only way this makes sense to me is that she wanted to kill her children, but she only wanted to appear like she wanted to kill herself.

Lindsay Clancy Facebook

I don’t know that she had as much conscious intent as to only want to appear that she killed herself.

But it does seem to me that she had a plan for them, whereas what she did to herself was spur of the moment.

I don’t know what that means.