CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[ldlager]

I haven't listened yet.. and I'm very behind.. but just wanted to mention from before, while I think of it..... doesn't it say that these things were found when police arrived? If so.......... why would the cleaning lady, and the realtor, have both left anything lying around while the home was being shown? That doesn't make sense at all.

Officers quickly found both Sherman wallets (sources say Honey’s, containing $7,500, was in the kitchen near where she entered the home) and spotted the cash. They also noticed two iPads in the Shermans’ bedroom, Honey’s iPhone in a powder room she never used, and Barry’s BlackBerry on the basement floor near where he entered the house from the underground garage
Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

That isn’t consistent with other reports that said that the realtor picked up Barry’s stuff and put it on a shelf in the hallway. Unless the realtor picked up the inspection report and gloves and not the phone? That wouldn’t seem to make any sense.

 

[FromGermany1]

Second installment of KD podcast out this morning. Of interest, KD says the second autopsy indicates that the ligature was a soft material, and the marks on the neck indicate the ligature was “ …. a couple of centimetres wide”. So less than an inch. Sounds to me like perhaps a mans necktie could be possible. If that wide, how was it possibly missed or overlooked in the first autopsy?

Might it have been a Latex workout band perhaps?

 

[FromGermany1]

Further to my post just above, it is interesting to view the evolution of the description of the bodies as they were found:

Nov. 15, 2020
The bodies were kept upright by belts looped around their necks, holding them in a seated position, reclining backwards, under a low railing.

Account Suspended

Feb. 19, 2021
Their bodies were posed in a seated position, legs out front (Barry’s were crossed), reclined slightly backwards at the waist.

Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle

Sherman daughter says her life is more tragic than a Shakespeare play; Son Jonathon says of his sudden wealth, at some point it is just ‘extra zeros.’

www.thestar.com

June 16, 2022
Seated on the floor, she is tipped back at the waist to a position that I estimate from the photos is a 20- to 30-degree angle. (Ninety degrees would be seated upright.) The belt that is looped around her neck has its pressure point at the back of her neck.

Barry is situated on the other side of Honey. He is attached to the angled railing a little bit farther back, which explains why, though he is taller than Honey, his feet are roughly one foot from the wall. He, too, is wearing his shoes. His right leg is crossed over the other at the ankle. He is wearing his glasses.

Like Honey, Barry is seated, rear end on the pool deck, his torso tipped back but at a less severe angle than Honey. His head is slumped forward slightly, with the belt tension under his chin.
Where the belt tension is located is important, sources say, because the later examination by the forensic pathologist hired by the Shermans factored that in to his examination — determining that the location of the belt, plus the fact that there was relatively little weight pulling against the belts, made it highly unlikely that one or both committed suicide.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

Feb. 10, 2023
They discovered the Shermans in a reclined position, seated on the pool deck, belts looped around their necks, tied to a low railing above, keeping them from falling backward into the pool.

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

..... keeping them from falling backward into the pool.

That was always wrong, if one takes it exactly. They would have fallen rather sideways into the pool, NOT backwards, as they didn't sit with their backs to the pool. First the crime scene was described quite different, I remember. Later on the wall came into play, on which Honey's feet were positioned and Barry's feet with a little more distance; now they both HS/BS were sitting in a new position, namely aslant along the pool side.
I can't understand, why the position of the victims was so questionable, until today you can say.

 

[deugirtni]

..... keeping them from falling backward into the pool.

That was always wrong, if one takes it exactly. They would have fallen rather sideways into the pool, NOT backwards, as they didn't sit with their backs to the pool. First the crime scene was described quite different, I remember. Later on the wall came into play, on which Honey's feet were positioned and Barry's feet with a little more distance; now they both HS/BS were sitting in a new position, namely aslant along the pool side.
I can't understand, why the position of the victims was so questionable, until today you can say.

I think KD was just doing his best to describe the positioning from what he'd been told verbally... until such time as he had the opportunity to actually view the crimescene photos, which happened more recently. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Might it have been a Latex workout band perhaps?

Or one of those things that guys use to secure stuff.. would be commonly used by people moving stuff? A couple of cm isn't exact, so....

This is the type of thing I was thinking of, it is 'one inch':

https://www.lowes.com/pd/MULTUS-Roller-Cam-Buckle-with-9-Foot-Black-Polyester-Strap/5001668419

And dog leashes come in all different widths, there is this one at 3/4", which is 1.905cm:

belgian-malinois-dog-breed-store.com - L15##1016 Nylon multifunctional leash

Have Nylon Police Lead 3/4 inch x7FT(2cm on 2m)-Tracking LeadNylon dog leash for training two length adjustable.nylon dog leash size: 3/4 inch on 7 foot (2.0 cm on 210.0 cm) This dog running leash can quickly become answer to all your leash needs (probably beside long tracking line) in any...

www.belgian-malinois-dog-breed-store.com

Deer dragging thing (2 1/2"):

HOYDATE 4.9ft Deer Drag Orange Harness Deer Tow Rope Deer Drag and Harness Deer Puller Deer Hunting Accessories with Comfort Grip Handle, Calls & Lures - Amazon Canada

HOYDATE 4.9ft Deer Drag Orange Harness Deer Tow Rope Deer Drag and Harness Deer Puller Deer Hunting Accessories with Comfort Grip Handle in Calls & Lures.

www.amazon.ca

I wonder if there was footage of anyone 'walking their dog', who police didn't bother to interview, because they were just walking their dog?

 

[dotr]

I wonder if there was footage of anyone 'walking their dog', who police didn't bother to interview, because they were just walking their dog?

2019 rbsbm

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

While the Shermans lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

www.thestar.com

''Six weeks after police obtained a copy of the homeowners’ video, a detective from the homicide squad made an appointment to speak to the homeowners and came to their house on Jan. 25, 2018. The detective brought with her two photos, one showing a couple walking a dog and the other a lone woman. These photos were shown to the homeowners with no explanation, except that they were taken from other security cameras in the area.

The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a woman they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners’ videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a woman (the woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that day. The homeowners could not say if this was a different couple than the people in the photo shown by the detective.

There is no suggestion that the people in the two photos were involved in the slaying — only that police were showing them around the neighbourhood, possibly in a search for witnesses to the crime.''

 

[newclues]

Might it have been a Latex workout band perhaps?

The detective asked if Barry Sherman had any marks on his wrists when Gold saw him on Wednesday. That question took her aback. Thomas provided no explanation, which is normal when police conduct an interview; they do not want to give away any information that could be spread as gossip or, in future, hurt their case. Gold told the detective she could not recall seeing any. Often, when training Barry, she used elastic latex bands, looping them on his wrists, and had him do small exercises to strengthen his arms. Wednesday, she had not used them. The detective did not ask her about Honey’s wrists. There was nothing more to the interview, no other questions that stood out to Gold. (Donovan, Kevin. The Billionaire Murders (pp. 277-278). Penguin Canada.)

 

[WINDSOR]

Posted by DOTR

"The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a woman they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners’ videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a woman (the woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that day."

Okay, If I understand this correctly, two days before the Shermans were killed, their home was entered, by a couple walking a dog.

• Were the Sherman's home at that time that night? Should be easy to determine.
• 8:20pm, seems to me, a little late to have house guests, or a real estate showing.
• One tends to assume dog walkers are people who live in the area.
• Has the TPS identified this couple? I would assume they have, because in the press conference announcing the Night Walker, they implied they had identified everybody else.

Interesting information, to discover 5 years later.

 

[ldlager]

Posted by DOTR

"The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a woman they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners’ videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a woman (the woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that day."

Okay, If I understand this correctly, two days before the Shermans were killed, their home was entered, by a couple walking a dog.

• Were the Sherman's home at that time that night? Should be easy to determine.
• 8:20pm, seems to me, a little late to have house guests, or a real estate showing.
• One tends to assume dog walkers are people who live in the area.
• Has the TPS identified this couple? I would assume they have, because in the press conference announcing the Night Walker, they implied they had identified everybody else.

Interesting information, to discover 5 years later.

Agreed. But it doesn’t say that the people that entered the house were walking a dog. That was another time, and may not have been the same couple.

 

[deugirtni]

Posted by DOTR

"The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a woman they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners’ videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a woman (the woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that day."

Okay, If I understand this correctly, two days before the Shermans were killed, their home was entered, by a couple walking a dog.

• Were the Sherman's home at that time that night? Should be easy to determine.
• 8:20pm, seems to me, a little late to have house guests, or a real estate showing.
• One tends to assume dog walkers are people who live in the area.
• Has the TPS identified this couple? I would assume they have, because in the press conference announcing the Night Walker, they implied they had identified everybody else.

Interesting information, to discover 5 years later.

Just noting the article quoted was from March 2019, one and a half years after the murders. I'm wondering if they may have been people wanting to view the home out of the blue? It does seem awfully late (and would've been dark at that time of day at that time of year?) though.

Like someone long ago theorized... what if the 'hitperson' rented a place nearby somewhere, perhaps a month or more ahead of the murders?

And then made a habit of walking his/her dog so that it would seem 'normal' if questioned after the event? So LE wouldn't have a reason to suspect anything other? Oh, that's them, they are so-and-so, and they live over there, and they've been seen walking their dog', cross them off the list. ??

 

[RHR]

What he says on the podcast matches the ‘urban explorer’ that trespassed on the Sherman property before it was torn down.

“I figured a lot of stuff would have been taken out by Toronto Police, sent to an auction house or saved by family members, but that wasn’t really the case,” the man recalls. “There was stuff everywhere, furniture, clothes, artwork, books, personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased, the works. Pretty much every room I stepped into had me saying ‘jesus f--- christ’ out loud to myself, wondering what I was getting myself into.”

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

One Saturday afternoon in May of 2019, when nobody was looking, a man slipped under the garage door of the late Barry and Honey Sherman’s home.

www.toronto.com

Like Deug suggested above it may be a voice actor, but he sounds familiar to me.

At the end of the podcast in KD's credits he said the urban explorers voice is a person who he names as an actor.

 

[RHR]

But there is no indication that the shoes HS was wearing in this picture are the same shoes she was wearing when murdered?

It was winter and freezing cold. I am sure she would have had winter boots or shoes on when she went to the meeting at apotex. She went into her house through the side entrance. I think she would have taken off those boots along with her winter jacket hung it up and slipped into the mules kept at the side door

 

[RHR]

Just wanted to point out the difference between two drawings done at/for(?) the Toronto Star in regard to depicting the 'crimescene' based on viewing the actual 'crimescene' photos. (I put 'crimescene' in single quotes, because it is the scene where the bodies were hung after death, but not sure if there may have been other 'crimescenes' where each of the Shermans were actually killed.)

This one is from KD's article dated June 16, 2022, wherein he states:

Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 403300

This next one is from KD's article dated Feb. 10, 2023, wherein he states:

The Star has viewed the crime scene photos and this story includes a depiction of the scene by Toronto Star artist Susan Kao.

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 403301

Note that it is left to the reader's interpretation as to whether in the February drawing, when KD states, "this story includes", he means the article he linked in that particular sentence (which was a previous article from June wherein the positioning is different), or the article he was publishing that very day, wherein the positioning is more reclined than ever before. Why would the depictions change? Are both of them drawings by Kao? Who is Kao? Did someone get together with her to describe the scene depicted in the photos more accurately over time?

ETA: Sorry for being morbid... but do y'all remember the photos of the bodies being wheeled out of the home by the attendants, and the one was an odd shape? Now look at the most recent 'depiction'... would that explain the odd shape?

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

This, exactly. I've been reading things on here like "Barry would never do this" or "Barry seems like the kind of guy who would...", but really, you people know nothing about Barry, Honey, or what was going on in either of their minds. I understand how the family feel, my own brother killed...

www.websleuths.com

I get were you are going and i agree. I noticed it years ago when i first saw them being brought out of the home. Now that the diagram of them has been released it fits perfectly .

 

[dotr]

'Numerous' persons of interest in the murders of billionaire couple

Authorities in Toronto, Canada, have clarified that there are 'numerous' persons of interest in the ongoing case of Barry and Honey Sherman, who were found dead inside their mansion in 2017

www.dailymail.co.uk

Pictured: The bodies of Honey and Barry Sherman being removed from their home in December 2017

 

[RHR]

more thoughts:

RE: BS phone found with paper work and gloves, this makes me wonder, did BS carry his blackberry/phone in his hands when he entered the home? with paper work and his gloves in his hand and his phone too? no briefcase or bag for his work was mentioned? I would think most people put the phone in a pocket, purse, briefcase as they enter the home?

Why did the killer(s) leave the phones in these places? they took time to stage the bodies but not pick up the paperwork or gloves or phones?

RE: HS wallet, why is it out, where is the purse or did she not carry a purse and only carried a wallet and this would be normal to sit on the kitchen counter?

At what point would all of these little oddities indicate to the service providers in the house that morning that something was not right?

1. newspapers on the doorstep
2. alarm not on
3. HS car there, but no HS or BS as expected (for workouts or baking)
4. wallet on kitchen counter
5. a cell phone with nice cover found on floor of powder room
6. beds not in expected condition for a Friday morning
7. HS sink not wet

 

[RHR]

Maybe they didn't go back down that hallway to leave. Therefor not re seeing the phone/paperwork etc.
I always walk into my house with my phone in my hand and if i have paperwork or something similar on my passenger seat that i need to take into my house i would carry it in.

 

[deugirtni]

Just wanted to point out the difference between two drawings done at/for(?) the Toronto Star in regard to depicting the 'crimescene' based on viewing the actual 'crimescene' photos. (I put 'crimescene' in single quotes, because it is the scene where the bodies were hung after death, but not sure if there may have been other 'crimescenes' where each of the Shermans were actually killed.)

This one is from KD's article dated June 16, 2022, wherein he states:

Based on my description (from photos I viewed, police notes, and interviews with people who saw the bodies that day), Toronto Star artist Susan Kao has prepared an anatomical sketch to show the positioning of the bodies.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 403300

This next one is from KD's article dated Feb. 10, 2023, wherein he states:

The Star has viewed the crime scene photos and this story includes a depiction of the scene by Toronto Star artist Susan Kao.

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 403301

Note that it is left to the reader's interpretation as to whether in the February drawing, when KD states, "this story includes", he means the article he linked in that particular sentence (which was a previous article from June wherein the positioning is different), or the article he was publishing that very day, wherein the positioning is more reclined than ever before. Why would the depictions change? Are both of them drawings by Kao? Who is Kao? Did someone get together with her to describe the scene depicted in the photos more accurately over time?

ETA: Sorry for being morbid... but do y'all remember the photos of the bodies being wheeled out of the home by the attendants, and the one was an odd shape? Now look at the most recent 'depiction'... would that explain the odd shape?

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

This, exactly. I've been reading things on here like "Barry would never do this" or "Barry seems like the kind of guy who would...", but really, you people know nothing about Barry, Honey, or what was going on in either of their minds. I understand how the family feel, my own brother killed...

www.websleuths.com

I get were you are going and i agree. I noticed it years ago when i first saw them being brought out of the home. Now that the diagram of them has been released it fits perfectly .

'Numerous' persons of interest in the murders of billionaire couple

Authorities in Toronto, Canada, have clarified that there are 'numerous' persons of interest in the ongoing case of Barry and Honey Sherman, who were found dead inside their mansion in 2017

www.dailymail.co.uk

Pictured: The bodies of Honey and Barry Sherman being removed from their home in December 2017View attachment 403984 View attachment 403985

This picture from CP24 linked in my original post shows more explicity the odd shape... and then when you look at the most recent drawing.. it reminded me of that. imo. Pic attached

 

[deugirtni]

more thoughts:

RE: BS phone found with paper work and gloves, this makes me wonder, did BS carry his blackberry/phone in his hands when he entered the home? with paper work and his gloves in his hand and his phone too? no briefcase or bag for his work was mentioned? I would think most people put the phone in a pocket, purse, briefcase as they enter the home?

Why did the killer(s) leave the phones in these places? they took time to stage the bodies but not pick up the paperwork or gloves or phones?

RE: HS wallet, why is it out, where is the purse or did she not carry a purse and only carried a wallet and this would be normal to sit on the kitchen counter?

At what point would all of these little oddities indicate to the service providers in the house that morning that something was not right?

1. newspapers on the doorstep
2. alarm not on
3. HS car there, but no HS or BS as expected (for workouts or baking)
4. wallet on kitchen counter
5. a cell phone with nice cover found on floor of powder room
6. beds not in expected condition for a Friday morning
7. HS sink not wet

When one considers collectively all of the things noticed which were unusual, it does seem weird that some sense of curiosity/forboding wasn't felt by the housekeeper, who was a regular in the home and familiar with the owners' habits... at least enough to prompt her to go around the house and look for Honey? imo.

 

[ldlager]

It was winter and freezing cold. I am sure she would have had winter boots or shoes on when she went to the meeting at apotex. She went into her house through the side entrance. I think she would have taken off those boots along with her winter jacket hung it up and slipped into the mules kept at the side door

Blank

 

[WINDSOR]

Agreed. But it doesn’t say that the people that entered the house were walking a dog. That was another time, and may not have been the same couple.

As I understood the quote, it refereed to Monday Dec.11, and there was one couple walking a dog, who later entered the Sherman Home.

I may be wrong, and there actually was dog walkers on one day whom nobody recognized, and a separate unidentified couple who entered the Sherman home on another day.

The couple who entered the Sherman home, if they are still unidentified and not cleared by the TPS, are extremely relevant.

If they were identified, were and how were they related to the Shermans?