MI MI - Oakland County Child Killer, "The Babysitter Murders" , 1976-77 #2

[Richard]

I'm a firm believer that this set of crimes, and other sets of crimes against juveniles around roughly the same period of time along the Great Lakes, could very well be related in various ways. The Double-Initial/Alphabet Murders in my hometown come to mind, at least the two that LE know for sure are a mystery. Others happened elsewhere along L. Erie. One more that comes to mind is the Tammy Jo Alexander murder (formerly Caledonia Jane Doe).

What I'm driving at is I think various perps in these cases may have known each other.

It is very likely that this series of the murder of 4 children is related to other crimes against children.

The fact that the perpetrator had committed so many separate murders in such a short space of time indicates that he had been "working up to it" earlier. Perhaps not abductions and murders, but certainly committing other crimes against children. And he could not have simply turned it off and cured himself immediately afterward. There were more.

 

[aclueappears]

Coroners report on Timothy King by John E. Smialek, M.D, states "death is estimated at approximately 6-8 hours prior to the body being found. The body was dumped at the scene approximately 2 hours or less before being found."

 

[Nina Michigan]

Coroners report on Timothy King by John E. Smialek, M.D, states "death is estimated at approximately 6-8 hours prior to the body being found. The body was dumped at the scene approximately 2 hours or less before being found."

yes because the Wayne County Coroner's office does such great work /sarcasm

JMO

 

[aclueappears]

What is the source for his body being warm and the efforts to revive him?

 

[Nina Michigan]

What is the source for his body being warm and the efforts to revive him?

I did a multipart series on this case in 2018-2019 interviewed Tim's siblings and others connected to the case. I'm sort of the resident expert on OCCK (JMO/YMMV)

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Everything we know about the Oakland County Child Killer case

It has been 47 years since the first known victim of the Oakland County Child Killer was abducted and murdered.

www.clickondetroit.com

OAKLAND COUNTY, Mich. – It has been 47 years since the first known victim of the Oakland County Child Killer was abducted and murdered.

Mark Stebbins, 12, vanished on Feb. 15, 1976. He was found dead four days later. Police believe a serial killer murdered Stebbins and three other children in Oakland County between 1976 and 1977.

The children were all last seen within a mile of Woodward Avenue. They had been fed and cared for until their murders. The killer, or killers, bathed them or made them bathe. The killer is known primarily as The Oakland County Child Killer, but they are also known as The Babysitter or the Babysitter Killer.

The investigation into the serial killings was the largest of its kind in U.S. history at the time...

 

[SecretAgentMan]

Quite a few persons of interest in this case......almost 50 years later & no suspect to arrest. If they have any DNA evidence, run it thru genealogy DNA testing & they will get the killers name, thats if they have his DNA.

 

[Ozoner]

Quite a few persons of interest in this case......almost 50 years later & no suspect to arrest. If they have any DNA evidence, run it thru genealogy DNA testing & they will get the killers name, thats if they have his DNA.

They already matched the only DNA that they have to James Vincent Gunnels, who was a young teen at the time of these killings. He was a known victim of Christopher Busch, and many people think that Busch got Gunnels to participate as an accomplice. Gunnels has denied it, of course. If Gunnels didn't participate, then I think that his DNA was inadvertently transferred by Busch.

It seems clear that Busch was involved, either as the main perp or as an accomplice, and it seems likely that L. Brooks Patterson knew it and kept his mouth shut in exchange for some generous campaign contributions and/or political favors and/or because he had worked out a very lenient plea deal for Busch on some previous child molestation charges and was therefore the reason that Busch wasn't already in prison.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

They already matched the only DNA that they have to James Vincent Gunnels, who was a young teen at the time of these killings. He was a known victim of Christopher Busch, and many people think that Busch got Gunnels to participate as an accomplice. Gunnels has denied it, of course. If Gunnels didn't participate, then I think that his DNA was inadvertently transferred by Busch.

It seems clear that Busch was involved, either as the main perp or as an accomplice, and it seems likely that L. Brooks Patterson knew it and kept his mouth shut in exchange for some generous campaign contributions and/or political favors and/or because he had worked out a very lenient plea deal for Busch on some previous child molestation charges and was therefore the reason that Busch wasn't already in prison.

Yeah I read about the connection between Busch & Gunnels....& Gunnels’ DNA is a mitochondrial DNA match to a hair found on Kristine Mihelich’s body, but Gunnels being around 16 years old at the time of the murders makes it difficult to me that Gunnels was the sole perp.

I dont think a 16 year old could pull off 4 separate kidnappings & murders & get away with all of it. Now whether Gunnel was an accomplice too all these terrible acts we may never know, or whether his hair what inadvertently transferred to the crime scene. Busch committing suicide in 1978 hurts the investigation even tho he was never connected to any of the 4 crimes scenes by DNA or any other evidence. Doesnt mean Busch wasnt guilty of these murders, just means cant be connected.

Doesnt help that the police lost evidence found at the Busch house after he committed suicide.....police found blood-stained ropes that were kept in an evidence locker for years before they went missing.

 

[clinteastwood]

Yeah I read about the connection between Busch & Gunnels....& Gunnels’ DNA is a mitochondrial DNA match to a hair found on Kristine Mihelich’s body, but Gunnels being around 16 years old at the time of the murders makes it difficult to me that Gunnels was the sole perp.

I dont think a 16 year old could pull off 4 separate kidnappings & murders & get away with all of it. Now whether Gunnel was an accomplice too all these terrible acts we may never know, or whether his hair what inadvertently transferred to the crime scene. Busch committing suicide in 1978 hurts the investigation even tho he was never connected to any of the 4 crimes scenes by DNA or any other evidence. Doesnt mean Busch wasnt guilty of these murders, just means cant be connected.

Doesnt help that the police lost evidence found at the Busch house after he committed suicide.....police found blood-stained ropes that were kept in an evidence locker for years before they went missing.

That was quite a “suicide”

 

[Ozoner]

That was quite a “suicide”

I've always assumed that his father had him killed because he (the father) knew what CB was, but I suppose it's also possible that an accomplice killed CB and staged the suicide in order to ensure that CB couldn't blab.

 

[Passion4RealJustice]

Quite a few persons of interest in this case......almost 50 years later & no suspect to arrest. If they have any DNA evidence, run it thru genealogy DNA testing & they will get the killers name, thats if they have his DNA.

They claim they have run the DNA but there isn't a match. Find that very hard to believe since I would imagine at this current time, that most people have someone in their family that have submitted DNA, one way or another, whether it be a genealogy site or some other way. I am pretty confident that they know who the OCCK was, but because they were either trying to keep their mistakes covered up or they were covering for someone or a group of people. Things were really up in the 70's when it comes to pedophilia. The rabbit holes are never ending. There were so many people involved in these rings, it's absolutely disgusting.

 

[Ozoner]

They claim they have run the DNA but there isn't a match. Find that very hard to believe since I would imagine at this current time, that most people have someone in their family that have submitted DNA, one way or another, whether it be a genealogy site or some other way. I am pretty confident that they know who the OCCK was, but because they were either trying to keep their mistakes covered up or they were covering for someone or a group of people. Things were really up in the 70's when it comes to pedophilia. The rabbit holes are never ending. There were so many people involved in these rings, it's absolutely disgusting.

What DNA are you talking about? They ran mtDNA on a hair found on Kristine Mihelich's body and matched the hair to James Vincent Gunnels.

They also found matching hairs on Tim King's body and Mark Stebbins's body, but those hairs did not match any of the known suspects. They might only have mtDNA, and I don't think that they could do genetic genealogy with that. Those same hairs match hairs found in Arch Sloan's car, but the hairs aren't his. There's little doubt that Sloan could provide the information needed to solve the case if he wanted to. I don't know whether he's keeping his mouth shut because he participated or just out of spite for law enforcement.

I would love to see DNA testing on the dog hairs that were found on some victims. I would bet good money that a breed could be identified. I love love to know if the breed is a match for the Busch family dog. One theory is that Chris Busch was not the primary OCCK but functioned as a babysitter for the OCCK.

 

[Passion4RealJustice]

What DNA are you talking about? They ran mtDNA on a hair found on Kristine Mihelich's body and matched the hair to James Vincent Gunnels.

They also found matching hairs on Tim King's body and Mark Stebbins's body, but those hairs did not match any of the known suspects. They might only have mtDNA, and I don't think that they could do genetic genealogy with that. Those same hairs match hairs found in Arch Sloan's car, but the hairs aren't his. There's little doubt that Sloan could provide the information needed to solve the case if he wanted to. I don't know whether he's keeping his mouth shut because he participated or just out of spite for law enforcement.

I would love to see DNA testing on the dog hairs that were found on some victims. I would bet good money that a breed could be identified. I love love to know if the breed is a match for the Busch family dog. One theory is that Chris Busch was not the primary OCCK but functioned as a babysitter for the OCCK.

The DNA found in Sloan's car and on the 2 boys, is the DNA that I am referring to. It is said that they have tried running that DNA and they have not gotten any hits. But I wish they would have tested the dog hairs too. Also convenient that the Busch dogs were cremated. I have recently written to Arch Sloan and Ted Lamborgine. It's a long shot, but anything is worth a try at this point. These guys don't have much time left.

Christopher Busch was most definitely involved and was absolutely murdered because of it. Whether it was McNamee that killed him or his family had it done themselves. I have also written to Busch's nephew Brent Busch, as well as Chris's brother Charles. This rabbit hole goes much deeper than the OCCK unfortunately. The 1970's was like the Wild Wild West in terms of child abuse. I have a few connections that I am still trying to make, but most of these guys were all connected in some way or another, even if they just knew someone who knew someone. And I apologize for sounding as though I am certain of these things, this is very obviously just my opinion of the events that occurred, but I base my opinions on the information that is available to me.

 

[Passion4RealJustice]

Complete long shot, but I have a relative who has been with the MSP for a very long time and I finally reached out today to see if there is ANY possible way to gain access to the documents that "don't exist" in this case. I know they've released some documents through FOIA requests, but you never know what you might find when a new request emerges. I've also been working with Vital Records and have obtained information regarding all missing and murdered children from 1970-1980 just to see if there are any other possible links to other victims or whatever else could possibly come of it. I am also reviewing some of this data in other states such as Tennessee, Louisiana, New Jersey, etc., any state that had to ties to any of these boy camps like the one on North Fox Island. All of these predators have some sort of connection, in my opinion.

 

[samsmom]

Gray Hughes covers this

Oakland County Child Murders aka Children Of The Snow - INSANE case!

#childrenofthesnow #oaklandcountychildmurders #coldcase #truecrimeyoutubers #missingpersons #truecrime"Between February 15, 1976, and March 16, 1977, two boy...

www.youtube.com

 

[MrsWatson]

Another case with possible links to the OCCK case.

Relentless: Daughters refuse to let mother’s unsolved murder fade into past

The pandemic provides new hope of finding the killer in 1978 murder of Gail Webster of Troy.

eu.detroitnews.com

 

[morf13]

On my podcast Citizen Detective, our team will be exploring this case live in a multi part episode. We would love to have participation from anyone here that's interested to get your theories, questions, share ideas, etc
Our team includes a criminologist, a DNA expert, a retired homicide detective.
We record the first part live on April 2nd at 9PM Eastern and would love to have you participate.
Info to join us live is contained here in the 'About the show' section.

 

[morf13]

On my podcast Citizen Detective, our team will be exploring this case live in a multi part episode. We would love to have participation from anyone here that's interested to get your theories, questions, share ideas, etc
Our team includes a criminologist, a DNA expert, a retired homicide detective.
We record the first part live on April 2nd at 9PM Eastern and would love to have you participate.
Info to join us live is contained here in the 'About the show' section.

Just a reminder, for anyone interested in the Oakland County Child murders case, if you have insights or a theory you want to share, or just want to take part in the discussion, my podcast Citizen Detective will be recording a multi part episode on the case starting tonight Tuesday 4/2/24 at 9PM Eastern. Our panel includes a DNA expert, a retired homicide detective, and a criminologist who you will hear from along the way over our multi part coverage, we will also have on various experts including geo profiling expert Douglas MacGregor, and hopefully other surprise guests/experts.

We hope to see you there.
For details on how to take part live, view this page.

 

[morf13]

tonight Tuesday 4/16/24 at 9PM Eastern, part 2 of our deep dive into the Oakland County child murders. Our panel includes a DNA expert, a retired homicide detective, and a criminologist who you will hear from along the way over our multi part coverage, we will also have on various experts including geo profiling expert Douglas MacGregor, and hopefully other surprise guests/experts.

We hope to see you there and that you will share your theories and ideas about the case
For details on how to take part live, view this page.