GA: Deborah (Debbie) Collier 10 Sept 2022 autopsy implies foul play

[Cedars]

In my experience, it's a slow and painstaking process to get the coroner to change the manner of death to undetermined if not homicide, and even slower to get an investigation reopened. IMO, somebody likely working for DC's son is working behind the scenes, hoping the release of the autopsy results will generate momentum and public support. As I said, a slow process....

It's also pretty common for family members to refuse to accept a verdict of suicide, altho it's true.

I've seen some cases where the investigation is left open by LE for a looong time, perhaps until some forensic experts are able to take the time do to some tests/recreations of the scene, or research other similar cases.

It keeps the family hanging, but seems to make them more likely to accept a suicide verdict.

JMO

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Snipped by me.

Did she? I don't recall her saying that. I thought she also suspected foul play?

ETA: Did some digging. In a Nov. interview AR says she now suspects it was suicide, but I believe this was after LE also changed their tune. Originally AR said:

---

In an emotional interview, Bearden voiced her distress at losing her mother, telling CBS 46: “Somebody took my whole world from me,” and “She was a beautiful, kind, giving woman — and she didn’t deserve any of this … I want justice for my mom.”

Source

---

The only thing I recall was that at some point, Amanda said that her mom had been giving away some of her things just prior to her death. That, to me, could indicate suicidal thoughts, or just wanting to clean up the house and give her daughter, who'd just returned to the area, some items of her own.

 

[Dotta]

What a twist in this terrible case!

So what will happen now?
Has it become a cold case?
Or is suicide still the official verdict?

I cannot imagine what her family is going through

 

[Jade]

Has LE ever said if Debbie's computer or phone searches were checked? Surely she would have had to have done some research if she was planning suicide by fire. That's just not something that most people come up with easily.

Imo, intended by inhalation of smoke not by fire.

Imo, the flash fire intensity was unexpected.

The tote being used as a hood blasted off and her flammable looking jersey caught fire startling her to her feet then she stumbled to the tree.

I’m similar to her demographic and I learned about that method of suicide from a description of a forest in a country I was planning a visit.

No searching, no keywords used, there it was just innocently on a page about the forest.

It’s amazing the information we gather without any trace. A show, a conversation, an aspect of a webpage that’s not the main subject of the page, and so on.

I’ve been thinking of DC and that pretty little spot with all those native blooming and beneficial to wildlife trees and shrubs now would have sweet spring ephemeral wildflowers.

This was no grungy forsaken side of the road it is an absolutely beautiful place in our world.


All imo

 

[Cedars]

Imo, intended by inhalation of smoke not by fire.

Imo, the flash fire intensity was unexpected.

The tote being used as a hood blasted off and her flammable looking jersey caught fire startling her to her feet then she stumbled to the tree.

I’m similar to her demographic and I learned about that method of suicide from a description of a forest in a country I was planning a visit.

No searching, no keywords used, there it was just innocently on a page about the forest.

It’s amazing the information we gather without any trace. A show, a conversation, an aspect of a webpage that’s not the main subject of the page, and so on.

I’ve been thinking of DC and that pretty little spot with all those native blooming and beneficial to wildlife trees and shrubs now would have sweet spring ephemeral wildflowers.

This was no grungy forsaken side of the road it is an absolutely beautiful place in our world.


All imo

And, it occurs to me, police would not want to provide a detailed description of the method, as it would give ideas to others.

JMO

 

[Seattle1]

What a twist in this terrible case!

So what will happen now?
Has it become a cold case?
Or is suicide still the official verdict?

I cannot imagine what her family is going through

Without new evidence that LE believes supports foul play, I don't see this case investigation reopened.

I think at least one family member is hopeful that by making the autopsy results public, and the opinion of forensic experts known, it might help their effort to get the manner of death changed from suicide to undetermined.

All I know for certain is that DC died a horrific death with more than 80% of her head and body burned-- information not previously known shared with the public at the last press conf by LE.

 

[DeDee]

<modsnip: Referenced podcast does not have blanket approval>

Now, I'm conflicted when I had convinced myself that it was indeed a suicide but when hearing the accelerant was mainly on her head and face, <SMH>. How can she douse the accelerant over her head, while striking a fire with her refillable lighter, and holding a tote over her head to catch and inhale the smoke, not the flames, and also grab ahold of a tree as she's dying? It sounds like she may have been dead before she was burned. Is that possible?

@Warwick7 have you seen this thread about Debbie Collier? You always thought she was murdered, iirc.

“I think the big question is, is this something she did to herself, where she takes a tank of gasoline and pours it on her head, and then initiates a flame by striking a match? Or is this something somebody else did to her?” ‘Body Bags’ Host & Forensics Expert Says Georgia Mom’s Suicide by Fire is ‘Rare,’ Given the Circumstances Surrounding Her Death

 

[Knox]

Famed pathologist Dr. Baden believes Debbie Collier’s autopsy implies murder

“I think the medical examiner doesn’t understand what forensic pathology is,” Dr. Michael Baden quipped to The Post.

nypost.com

I was surprised to see this thread, I thought the conclusion previously announced had closed the door to any further speculation related to Debbie's death

Why did Baden review the autopsy? Did I miss that somewhere?

 

[MistyWaters]

I just noticed this, how LE drew their suicide conclusion according to unnamed sources -

Autopsy for Georgia woman's 'suicide' reveals extensive injuries previously unmentioned

A newly released autopsy report reveals new information about the death of missing Georgia mom Debbie Collier after her body was found naked 90 minutes away from her home in Athens.

www.fox5atlanta.com

“In support of investigators' suicide declaration, the autopsy reportedly only mentioned, "Investigation by law enforcement revealed circumstances consistent with a self-intentioned act and that she was alone at the time of the incident."

Law enforcement sources told Fox News Digital the conclusion was drawn from the toxicology report, depression, and an unsent text message to her son reading "I love you."…..”

 

[caradana]

Encouraging thoughtful WS readers to read upon Michael Baden’s past and come back and share their opinions as to whether they would find him credible? Michael Baden - Wikipedia (don’t miss the Phil Spector section)

 

[Warwick7]

<modsnip: Referenced podcast does not have blanket approval>

Now, I'm conflicted when I had convinced myself that it was indeed a suicide but when hearing the accelerant was mainly on her head and face, <SMH>. How can she douse the accelerant over her head, while striking a fire with her refillable lighter, and holding a tote over her head to catch and inhale the smoke, not the flames, and also grab ahold of a tree as she's dying? It sounds like she may have been dead before she was burned. Is that possible?

@Warwick7 have you seen this thread about Debbie Collier? You always thought she was murdered, iirc.

No I hadn't. Thank you!
I quit going to that thread after they declared it a suicide. It irritated me. Yes I will look into this. Thank you again!

 

[MistyWaters]

Encouraging thoughtful WS readers to read upon Michael Baden’s past and come back and share their opinions as to whether they would find him credible? Michael Baden - Wikipedia (don’t miss the Phil Spector section)

It’s not only Baden who’s publicly commenting on the autopsy results.

‘Body Bags’ Host & Forensics Expert Says Georgia Mom’s Suicide by Fire is ‘Rare,’ Given the Circumstances Surrounding Her Death

'Revisiting the Debbie Collier Case'

www.crimeonline.com

“The host of “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan” says the circumstances surrounding the death of Georgia mother Debbie Collier have left him “befuddled,” following the Georgia Bureau of Investigation’s determination that the death was a suicide.

Morgan, a medicolegal death investigator and Distinguished Scholar of Applied Forensics at Jacksonville State University, said that what police claimed happened to Collier is something he has rarely seen in his decades-long career in forensics.

“They’re not arriving at any other conclusion other than she doused herself with gas and set herself on fire,” Morgan said. “I have worked cases of self-immolation…[this] is not something you would encounter…That’s what makes this so bizarre for us that work in forensics.”…..”

 

[MistyWaters]

I was surprised to see this thread, I thought the conclusion previously announced had closed the door to any further speculation related to Debbie's death

Why did Baden review the autopsy? Did I miss that somewhere?

It appears he reviewed the autopsy report at the request of the NYPost. But it doesn’t say how or from who the Post obtained it.

Famed pathologist Dr. Baden believes Debbie Collier’s autopsy implies murder

“I think the medical examiner doesn’t understand what forensic pathology is,” Dr. Michael Baden quipped to The Post.

nypost.com

“The autopsy report, obtained by The Post and provided to Baden for review, claims Collier died from “inhalation of superheated gases, thermal injuries and a hydrocodone intoxication” and speculates she died in a “flash fire” due to the presence of a nearby gas can.”

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Her death was NOT self-immolation and why are they deemphasizing the toxicology report?

Inhalation of superheated gases, thermal injuries and hydrocodone intoxication does not equal self-immolation even if there was a flash of fire and she suffered burns.

What the AF, he's worse than the Daily Mail, did he even read the autopsy report?
" a tank of gasoline and pours it on her head, and then initiates a flame by striking a match?"

An investigator with a master's degree, not a medical doctor, not a forensic pathologist.
Not doubting his distinguished career, but he does not do autopsies.

‘Body Bags’ Host & Forensics Expert Says Georgia Mom’s Suicide by Fire is ‘Rare,’ Given the Circumstances Surrounding Her Death

'Revisiting the Debbie Collier Case'

www.crimeonline.com

 

[Seattle1]

I was surprised to see this thread, I thought the conclusion previously announced had closed the door to any further speculation related to Debbie's death

Why did Baden review the autopsy? Did I miss that somewhere?

The conclusion by authorities has not changed.

Cause of Death: Inhalation of Superheated Gases, Thermal Injuries, and Hydrocodone Intoxication, and Manner of Death: self-inflicted /suicide.

DC's thread remains closed and I opened this thread only to share the full autopsy results and the evaluations. No family member was cited in the MSM reports.

The thread was not opened to challenge the conclusion by authorities and I trust this thread can remain on the honor system to comment on the autopsy results not previously made public, and professional evaluations by pathologists and forensic experts.

 

[Sunshynn]

The thread was not opened to challenge the conclusion by authorities and I trust this thread can remain on the honor system to comment on the autopsy results not previously made public, and professional evaluations by pathologists and forensic experts.

What a twist in an already wild case.
I, jmo, am still having a hard time wrapping my head around the suicide angle of this and am interested to see if anything more comes of this.

 

[annpats]

The conclusion by authorities has not changed.

Cause of Death: Inhalation of Superheated Gases, Thermal Injuries, and Hydrocodone Intoxication, and Manner of Death: self-inflicted /suicide.

Superheated gases? What gases would these have been? Something from an aerosol can?

 

[Sundog]

Perhaps they had no further evidence or leads to follow, and just wanted it all to go away.

I think they should have clarified the evidence they'd found or not found, rather than just shut everything down.

<snipped for focus>

I think that once DC's death was ruled as a suicide by the medical examiner, then LE would not provide any more information to the public, as it was now a private matter.

 

[Cedars]

<snipped for focus>

I think that once DC's death was ruled as a suicide by the medical examiner, then LE would not provide any more information to the public, as it was now a private matter.

I agree, that's the usual protocol.

However, I think widespread media and public interest needs to be taken into account, especially when police stirred up much of that interest to begin with, with their initial statements about homocide.

There was a case in my region that turned out, when the body was found, to be suicide. Police, in that case, had kept a very low, non-commital profile, never suggested foul play. But because of circumstances, people in the region were very invested, and believed it must have been homicide. Possibly some of the family doubted the conclusion, as well.

The coroner's office took the very unusual step of allowing the media to see the autopsy report (not given copies), in exchange for agreeing not to give details, but only report whether they were satisfied with the conclusion.

I think that's because it's so important to the public interest that we feel safe, and that homicide will be recognized and properly investigated, that it sometimes trumps victim's normal rights to privacy.

JMO

 

[Seattle1]

I think that's because it's so important to the public interest that we feel safe, and that homicide will be recognized and properly investigated, that it sometimes trumps victim's normal rights to privacy.

^^rsbm

I'm afraid that concerns for public safety will be forced to take seats further back in the bus as agencies enforce privacy rules due to the increased use of social media, TikTok, etc. where unexplained deaths are being used as entertainment.

I'm thinking about the death of Nicola Bulley in Northern England where authorities had to close airspace during her recent funeral service and burial so that she could be honored privately.

This case was about a woman that did what she's done thousands of times before -- drop the kids off at school, cross the road (from the school) to walk the dog on a park trail along a river, and vanished for 3 weeks until her body was recovered from the river-- less than a mile from where she was last seen.

Police were certain from the beginning that she never left the park, no evidence of foul play, and she had to be in the water but the conspiracies about how and when she entered the water are over the top. And it doesn't help that UK employs an inquest to determine the cause of death which is not scheduled until June! MOO