4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[maconrich]

Respectfully snipped by me

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. And that's just from the little we know at this VERY EARLY STAGE.

I'm not going to stop questioning or being curious, but I'm not seeing any reason to start looking for conspiracies or co-conspirators, either.

MOO

It is early and there's a lot that hasn't been released yet. And that's why I've held my tongue so to speak. I do expect that the evidence that will convince me will come out later - one way or another. And I'm less than neutral about BK's guilt: what's been released so far does point to him. But I wouldn't be ready to start the lethal injection based on what's been released so far.

 

[iamshadow21]

What do you mean by the second page of the PCA redacted? I think you might mean the autopsy results/details for EC aere redacted in the PCA at the bottom of the second page? Hope I'm not misunderstanding you, so could you point me to where you're coming from? MOO

ETA

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

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I seem to recall the second page thing being a big nothing burger. The folks on the earlier threads chewed it over for a good long while before deciding the blank page was just an accident because the text just flowed right on, and you could see the reverse of a stamp from the first page clearly on the blank one.

But I have no link to hand because I'm already in bed and super overtired, so I'll say it's MOO.

 

[I'm Nobody]

What do you mean by the second page of the PCA redacted? I think you might mean the autopsy results/details for EC aere redacted in the PCA at the bottom of the second page? Hope I'm not misunderstanding you, so could you point me to where you're coming from? MOO

ETA

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

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Yes the Brett Payne statement PCA you added. My thoughts go back to the redacted page 2. It was talked about here in thread #52+? Nothing is most popular opinion. Just one of the many questions I ponder waiting for June.
I'm fine with not being popular. JMO

edit ?

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

BBM. me too. I wonder about the 2nd page of the PCA being redacted. Could there have been another person there? In the bathroom? Maybe passed out--the unconscious person? Was page 2 redacted for security purposes? The longer I think about some things the more confused I get. The evidence seems strong, cell, DNA, car, eye-witness but why all the confidentiality and "pray" to keep things sealed? Both sides.

JMO

Why is it beneficial to both sides?
Does anyone have an answer or two?

 

[iamshadow21]

I wrote a post about this before I'm remembering now. I will have to go through them and repost here MOO

Appreciate it if you would. I've been awake for about 21 hours solid and my phone really isn't ideal for searching back through old threads. Trying to get tired enough to sleep, it just hasn't happened for me yet. Tired, but my head's still racing. (Have got up to the preliminary hearing on Gannon's thread... And it's A Lot to take in. Poor kid. End result is, I'm still awake when I should be sleeping but can't.)

 

[FromGermany1]

Since the DD warrant is only for the 1122 King address, surely there weren't all that many deliveries. In that regard, it doesn't seem like too much information to request. The roomies had vehicles so they could get their own food except when liquor consumption prevented the drives then, DD it is.
How many drivers are we talking about? How often did DD driver's quit in those ten months and new ones take their place?

I personally would not take offense at the prosecution requesting my information to help them solve a quadruple homicide but not everyone thinks like that. I see it as DA's due diligence, att.


We have early morning courts reserved so I must shove off but wanted to mention that I saw where someone opined the 10 (non legible) inside glove, inside box were not ID cards but are likely SD cards. It would be a good hiding place for SD cards to use a sock then a box to place them inside. Comparing the handwriting samples of the s's and many look like i's.

( from @jepop 's post 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74 ) BBM
EVIDENCE FROM PA HOUSE: (63 item total).
Knife...
[snipped for focus]...
10 (non legible) inside glove inside box...
Various criminology books, notes, license, card...
[snipped for focus]...
1 pair of brown boots

JMOO

The mention of "(UR61)" makes sense in connection with SD cards, I think.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

While I have no problem with parallel investigations, imo jmo our constitutional rights are sacred, and warrants must be generated with purpose. Ones that are overly broad and subject those with no real connection to the crime to unreasonable search and seizure are a violation of our rights. Curiosity and hunches are not reasons for warrants imo ime and in the volumes of case law that exist.

Someone above asked why this case still holds interest. For me, it's because I think it is more complex that it appears. I think that the legal questions that will be addressed are fascinating. I have a personal interest, and the education and professional experience that make me want to delve more deeply, and so I follow the case.

Additionally, the Ted Lasso in me demands that I be curious. I find the liminal spaces and legal issues interesting. Some of us are happier with pat answers, and those quick and certain responses may or may not be correct, but that's not really the point. Imo Ime fast and certain answers mean a lot of important questions are skimmed over or discouraged, and probably a lot of stupid ones, too. To me, that's a real loss, and defeats the point of engaging.

My questions are valid, and I think that in time, more will reveal. This does not mean that I don't believe that bk is guilty. This does not mean that I think it's a vast conspiracy. It just means that imo ime jmo there is more here than is obvious and digging into those details, questioning the evidence and the warrants, and considering the case from all sides is the rich learning experience on offer. That is why I joined WS and what I think the highest purpose of this site is - at least imo.

And this is all jmo imo ime.

 

[Peppery]

Kohlberger's Elantra was called in on 11/29.
The DoorDash warrant was served on 12/6.

Those things don't necessarily have to have any relation. It's likely LE was still pursuing any and all leads at that time. Including double and triple checking DoorDash guys' story and to check if any other DoorDash drivers were of interest.

Also possible DD driver has a small white sedan and LE wanted to definitively rule him out.

 

[jepop]

Yes the Brett Payne statement PCA you added. My thoughts go back to the redacted page 2. It was talked about here in thread #52+? Nothing is most popular opinion. Just one of the many questions I ponder waiting for June.
I'm fine with not being popular. JMO

edit ?

BBM: I see, I disagree with the conclusions you have drawn.. And that has to do only with logic and rational inference. It is not to do with being popular, "un popular" or otherwise. MOO.

IMO, there is no missing"or "redacted" second page.

The blank page between page 1 and page 2 is a reverse copy of the back of page 1, IMO. IMO, someone mis-copied and forgot to remove that mis-copy before releasing the PCA to the public. I wonder if anyone here is aware of any officially released and corrected version of the PCA minus this blank page? If such a version exists, perhaps it coukd be updated in the media thread. MOO

Here is why I think the blank page between page 1 and page 2 of the PCA is a reverse copy of page 1 and not a "redacted second page" of the PCA:

- the pages of the PCA are numbered 1,2,3...etc. Page 1 follows page 2. The blank page sports no number. A redacted page would still sport a number in logical sequence IMO.

-I can see that the word "redacted" is in reverse at the bottom of that blank page. The logical inference is that the "redacted" stamp from the bottom of page 1 has seeped through in a reverse mis-copy of page 1. IMO.

-the bottom words of page 1 of the PCA join logically with the top/opening/words of page 2 of the PCA.

- the upright "redacted" stamp at the bottom of page 1 would logically refer to the blank space after the word "Examiner" at the top of page 2.

The above analysis is MOO.

I'm not good with screen shots which is why I've attempted to recreate this below using cut and paste.

"Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin, hereafter, "Chapin". Chapin was also deceased with wounds later determined (Autopsy Report provided by Spokane

1.

REDACTED
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
County Medical Examiner...[ blank space ]...dated December 15,2022) to be caused by "sharp-force injuries."....

2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MOO

EBM: added sentence above "The above analysis is MOO".

 

[jepop]

They have an obligation to pursue all leads, sure. But if every case hinged on whether police did the level of investigation that you're suggesting despite having a strong case/leads on a suspect.......

That's getting into a gross exaggeration of the intent of the Brady laws/rules IMO. Does LE have to clear an entire town? City? State? Every person they've ever come into contact with? Thank goodness that's not the bar, otherwise we'd likely have a lot of people having their charges/cases being thrown out.

To play devil's advocate for a second. They do have his DNA at the scene, on top of the bed where 2 of the murders occurred. On a piece of the murder weapon no less. Which is enough to clear the entire planet. Which is more than drivers who frequented a house or a town or city or state etc etc. So there's that.

The affadavit and details of return of service on the Doordash warrant are sealed in accordance with the reasons given in the Judges order, IMO. In this case, I believe some of those reasons coincide with the prosecutor's' original motion to seal (but I'm unsure on the technicalities so you could follow that up if you felt like it). There has been some release of info but also redactions. I'm unable to look at the DD warrant again atm but I believe the sealed parts are sealed on the basis of several factors including protecting a confidentail source, investigative technique/procedure protection.

I guess my point is that this warrant was granted on the basis of an affadvit that we are not privy to. People here have been speculating on what the rationale for the warrant might have been and all I think is being speculated by the OP (and myself) is that the warrant may be to do with following up on a lead that LE had at the time. This warrant was granted for a reason.
MOO

 

[GRT]

ikr?! what the heck? Why would they need all the info about Door Dash? Did BK ever pose as a Door Dash guy or something and deliver food not ordered or was DD how he found them? This doesn't make sense.

the confidential source was in quite a few, too.

Just about anyone can be a Door Dash delivery person, can't they? I think they use their own cars, too. It would have been a good way for BK to scope out various apartments and residences if he was in targeting mode.

I can't see any logical reason why LE would want all that data unless they somehow linked BK to Door Dash.

Alternatively, when was that warrant issued? Could it have been before BK was a suspect?

 

[GRT]

Nancy Grace visited (for better or worse) one of the neighbors with cameras pointed towards the house. Their camera was sound activated.

Reportedly (I remember reading) a Ring Doorbell ring cam was luckily (or unlucky for BK) triggered by a cat jumping past it and captured the car.

I'm not sure what Nancy Grace said--or was thinking, but Ring cameras are not activated by sound.

Can my indoor camera be set to activate and record on sound from a loud noise?

Hey neighbors. Ring Security Cameras and Video Doorbells do not detect or record based on sound. This feature has been requested before, which you can find on our Feature Request board here. For the Peephole Camera, we have heard feedback to bring this product back as well. You can vote on that...

community.ring.com

Caitlyn_Ring
Dec '22

Hey neighbors. Ring Security Cameras and Video Doorbells do not detect or record based on sound. This feature has been requested before, which you can find on our Feature Request board here 41. For the Peephole Camera, we have heard feedback to bring this product back as well. You can vote on that request here 10. The Feature Request board is how we gather and share new ideas with our teams here. Thank you for your continued feedback, we appreciate it.

The neighbor's Ring camera was triggered by motion--maybe a cat, but not likely. They have sensitivity controls that typically only detect larger moving items, like humans. That keeps them from being triggered constantly.

So, there's something we're not hearing about the Ring audio--such as it has a video to go along with it.

 

[maconrich]

Just about anyone can be a Door Dash delivery person, can't they? I think they use their own cars, too. It would have been a good way for BK to scope out various apartments and residences if he was in targeting mode.

I can't see any logical reason why LE would want all that data unless they somehow linked BK to Door Dash.

Alternatively, when was that warrant issued? Could it have been before BK was a suspect?

The ddash search warrant was issued on 6 Dec which should have been before BK was a suspect. IMHO the dates of the search warrants let us see the investigative process, as in earliest ones were focused on the victims banking and social media, etc while the later ones include BK. I expect the next batch will be even more focused.
Edited to add link to Door Dash warrant

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20DoorDash%20Inc.pdf

 

[GRT]

I understand your point but the motion could have been any other type of movement that triggered the camera to begin audio/visual recording and therefore it incidentally captured the audio of an area it does not visually cover. If you see what I mean.

Yes, that is correct. The cameras can be adjusted to pick up motion within a predetermined range and then start recording. Most owners will adjust the camera range to within their own yard so cars passing by do not trigger the recording. And, they can also set the sensitivity. The newer models can usually differentiate between birds, cats, and humans. I have the split-screen doorbell cams and they will pick up a human walking up to about 30 feet away, and they will also detect a package if it's left on the porch.

Basically, there are two types of doorbell cams--those that are wired and those that are wireless (battery operated). If they're wired, they draw power from a circuit wire, so the owner doesn't have to worry about a battery running down, and they can set the sensitivity high so the camera records often. Those who depend on batteries typically set the sensitivity low so they record only when humans come into range.

They're not perfect, however, my Saint Bernard is large enough to trigger the motion detectors at times. But, rarely does a cat trigger one.

 

[GRT]

The ddash search warrant was issued on 6 Dec which should have been before BK was a suspect. IMHO the dates of the search warrants let us see the investigative process, as in earliest ones were focused on the victims banking and social media, etc while the later ones include BK. I expect the next batch will be even more focused.
Edited to add link to Door Dash warrant

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20DoorDash%20Inc.pdf

That makes better sense to me now. Thanks for the date.

The Doordash delivery was just minutes before the killer entered so LE would naturally want to track their deliveries in case there was a connection before BK was a suspect. I can see that.

 

[kittythehare]

Has anyone looked through Ka-Bar reviews on Amazon/eBay? I recall a case where the killer had reviews on Amazon (can’t recall killer’s name). I’m sure the investigation would have already found this. Not that the info would be relevant except to link him to the purchase, I guess. I don’t know that there is a way to search names, usernames, locations, dates of purchase on Amazon/eBay? Just thinking out loud really.

possibly didn't use his real name..
i'd like to get my claws on his dating site info..

 

[maconrich]

That makes better sense to me now. Thanks for the date.

The Doordash delivery was just minutes before the killer entered so LE would naturally want to track their deliveries in case there was a connection before BK was a suspect. I can see that.

Agree, and sadly the delivery person was the last one to see them (aside from the killer). Thank you for the explanation about the doorbell cams. I've wondered how one would pick up sound with no picture.

 

[kittythehare]

SBM

Speculating & tip-toeing to share an unpopular opinion, but … based on the incredibly broad nature of the warrant & the warrant date (12/6/22), I think LE was still looking for a suspect.

MOO & speculating, but I think LE was able to pretty quickly eliminate “all the usual suspects,” perhaps/likely some we aren’t even aware of.

MOO, so LE started casting a much bigger net to try to find someone who might have targeted/fixated on the victim(s) &/or house. In addition to SM, DD is an obvious place to look, it seems to me, since it’s reportedly so commonly used by students at both universities. MOO & speculation.

I know many/most have interpreted the public documents, especially the PCA, as BCK was in LE sights much sooner, but my interpretation is different. MOO

i agree with your interpretation.
This was a mega crime scene, it was always gonna take the broadest of warrants until pinned finally.

 

[kittythehare]

Thanks for the work on looking into these warrants!
I recall per PCA that LE did a capture of cell phone pings (or however it is done) for the crime scene area and immediate surrounds - for the early am hours Nov 13th. I'm not up on how this works exactly but some of the warrants you mention here must be related to that? I think such a warrant allows LE to id cell phone numbers that were active in the area at the time of murders. In the PCA the affiant mentions that owing to this warrant, LE knew in retrospect that the BK no. was not active at that time, via the BK historical cell phone ping info acquired via warrant on 23rd DEcember. RE the timeline, all that coincides with what we are so familar with by now re BK turning phone off then on again (ala IT Crowd) before and after the crime. MOO and what a mouthfull.

That sounds like a geofence warrant.

 

[MrB327]

I'm not sure what Nancy Grace said--or was thinking, but Ring cameras are not activated by sound.

Can my indoor camera be set to activate and record on sound from a loud noise?

Hey neighbors. Ring Security Cameras and Video Doorbells do not detect or record based on sound. This feature has been requested before, which you can find on our Feature Request board here. For the Peephole Camera, we have heard feedback to bring this product back as well. You can vote on that...

community.ring.com

The neighbor's Ring camera was triggered by motion--maybe a cat, but not likely. They have sensitivity controls that typically only detect larger moving items, like humans. That keeps them from being triggered constantly.

So, there's something we're not hearing about the Ring audio--such as it has a video to go along with it.

Has it been confirmed the neighbor had a "Ring" camera? My Arlo cams can been be set to activate by sound.