Lies point us to the truth #3

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
JR not only failed to protect PR; he basically pointed the finger right at her. As, PR attacked JR in the RN.
JR could have made JB his good little girl. It is also possible that PR was jealous of JB because of this relationship. This might help explain the distance between the couple.
And then on the other hand, it could have been BR. Since he took after his father with his anger issues, maybe he just had enough w/JB on Christmas night.
I understand your thoughts that the original attack occurred in JB bedroom. Where are the missing pink pajamas pants? Whose fecal stained pajamas were lying on JB floor (that were much too big for JB)? Why was the drape behind her bed in such disarray?
And then the basement was the staging area. If this is this case I do believe that JB was grievously harmed before transferring her to the basement.

Rain on my Parade,

JR not only failed to protect PR; he basically pointed the finger right at her. As, PR attacked JR in the RN.
JR could have made JB his good little girl. It is also possible that PR was jealous of JB because of this relationship. This might help explain the distance between the couple.

Could be JR knew if it came to a court case, although involved, he wanted to smear Patsy as much as possible up front?

JR would have been, probably still is, alert to the accusation of child abuse, given his fibers found on JonBenet's genitalia which should not be there, particularly in the wine-cellar, beneath the new on size-12s does suggest the case might be JDI, hence the explicit Child Abuse True Bills rendered by the Grand Jury?

The big clue here is LHP's claims regarding JR's intimate demands on PR, which she detested, so did PR capitulate to JR and neglect JonBenet?

The pink pajama bottoms probably left in the same manner as JonBenet's size-6 Bloomingdales, could be JonBenet was initially cleaned up with them, or they were bloodstained along with her size-6 underwear?

Whose fecal stained pajamas were lying on JB floor (that were much too big for JB)?

Yes, another unanswered clue, what were the CSI doing, did they put the stained pajamas in an evidence bag, you can identify people from their fecal deposits, yuk?

Why was the drape behind her bed in such disarray?

Evidence of a potential struggle or postmortem search for damning forensic evidence?

And then the basement was the staging area. If this is this case I do believe that JB was grievously harmed before transferring her to the basement.

I reckon it all kicked off upstairs in one of the bedrooms, just pick your favorite theory.

The basement is all staging, Fleet White realized this on returning back down to the basement despite being told to stay upstairs.

Also I believe Fleet White knows enough to tell us if the case is BDI, JDI, or PDI, etc. As he helped make BR's bed and talked to BR in his bedroom, so he will know who the Fecally Soiled Pants belong to, i.e. the ones found in JonBenet's bedroom, not her toilet floor!

Is it not obvious BPD must know who killed JonBenet, even if Hunter might claim he could never take it to court on the grounds there is NO Smoking Gun?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The big clue here is LHP's claims regarding JR's intimate demands on PR, which she detested, so did PR capitulate to JR and neglect JonBenet?

UKGuy,
It happens. I personally know this as fact.

The pink pajama bottoms probably left in the same manner as JonBenet's size-6 Bloomingdales, could be JonBenet was initially cleaned up with them, or they were bloodstained along with her size-6 underwear?

Sort of confused by this statement. Although we know all the police found in JB pantie drawer were size 4 and 6 we do not know exactly if the bloomies (size 6) were recovered. it is possible that JB underwear could have gone in the washing machine/then dryer as did JB blanket.
What I wonder is how did all that blood get on the Barbie nightgown? It was splattered across the front of it. How did this happen?

Yes, another unanswered clue, what were the CSI doing, did they put the stained pajamas in an evidence bag, you can identify people from their fecal deposits, yuk?

They probably already knew who the contributor was.

Also I believe Fleet White knows enough to tell us if the case is BDI, JDI, or PDI, etc. As he helped make BR's bed and talked to BR in his bedroom, so he will know who the Fecally Soiled Pants belong to, i.e. the ones found in JonBenet's bedroom, not her toilet floor!

Yes, he was hit early on with you are no longer my friend when he became vocal about the CNN telecast.

Is it not obvious BPD must know who killed JonBenet, even if Hunter might claim he could never take it to court on the grounds there is NO Smoking Gun?

IMOO, Tom Koby was silenced.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
It happens. I personally know this as fact.


Sort of confused by this statement. Although we know all the police found in JB pantie drawer were size 4 and 6 we do not know exactly if the bloomies (size 6) were recovered. it is possible that JB underwear could have gone in the washing machine/then dryer as did JB blanket.
What I wonder is how did all that blood get on the Barbie nightgown? It was splattered across the front of it. How did this happen?


They probably already knew who the contributor was.


Yes, he was hit early on with you are no longer my friend when he became vocal about the CNN telecast.


IMOO, Tom Koby was silenced.

Rain on my Parade,

It happens. I personally know this as fact.

Sadly it does. JonBenet might have been a victim many times over, not having someone to talk to will have left her confused and at the mercy of her abuser, hence the bedwetting, etc? JR's personality traits match the profile for this scenario, as does Patsy's, never forget PR defending JR regarding JonBenet appearing at pageants in Las Vegas!

Sort of confused by this statement. Although we know all the police found in JB pantie drawer were size 4 and 6 we do not know exactly if the bloomies (size 6) were recovered.

Sure, but you can infer something from the fact that BPD have never released any details about the contents of JonBenet's underwear.

Also if there were no size-6 Bloomingdale's in JonBenet's drawer, where did they go, why were they not returned with the size-12s?

if you read Patsy's Atlanta 2000 BPD Interview, you can plainly see she says she purchased BLOOMINGDALES for both JonBenet and Patsy.

How many does not matter, since BPD tell us what they found, i.e. size 4 and 6. Guess what I'll bet the size-6 pairs are Bloomingdales?

Also Patsy must have purchased one pack of Bloomingdale's size-12, since JonBenet was found dressed in Bloomingdale's size-12 and the Ramsey's allegedly returned the remainder.

Also Patsy NEVER purchased a pack of size-12 Bloomingdales for JonBenet, otherwise she would have put them in JonBenet's drawer, and there would have been a pack of size-12 Bloomingdales left over which were intended for Jenny.

Check the interview and its an inescapable conclusion that Patsy purchased one pack of Bloomingdale's size-6 for JonBenet and one pack of Bloomingdale's size-12 for her niece Jenny.

Any extra Bloomingdale's packs in either size do not add anything to the above, just means the Ramsey's smuggled them all out?

BTW, the Bloomingdale's size-6 for JonBenet were probably her big-girl pants, a step up from size-4? Also there was all the upcoming festive party's which JonBenet would want to dress up for.

What I wonder is how did all that blood get on the Barbie nightgown? It was splattered across the front of it. How did this happen?

JonBenet was possibly lying on top of it when the SA took place or the staging? Or it was used to wipe her down, e.g. JR and his fiber transfer?

Another scenario is it was simply used to clean blood-spattered items, including someone's hands?

The blood on the Barbie nightgown likely places it at the crime-scene, also if you accept JonBenet wore size-6 Bloomingdales to the White's Party and Pink Pajama top and bottoms to bed, then with the size-6 underwear and pink bottoms missing. The role of the Barbie nightgown becomes evident.

It's just that the stager found the Barbie nightgown and the size-12s were not a good match as the size-12s not only fell down but left JonBenet's bloodstained groin area visible.

The big Question is was Patsy telling the truth about the long johns or was she covering for Burke, in which case you should be able to work out the sequence of staging?

They probably already knew who the contributor was.

I'll bet they do. A homicide case and CSI does not bag prime forensic evidence?

Yes, he was hit early on with you are no longer my friend when he became vocal about the CNN telecast.

Yes, get the guns prepared, etc. When Fleet White returned back downstairs it must have been to compare something from his earlier visit in the morning, i.e. another sign he knew what was going on?

JR NEVER knew Fleet White had searched the basement, so he never knew what Fleet White could say about anything that had changed since that visit.

IMO, Fleet White is BPD star witness. Might be Hunter had a chat with him regarding the Colorado Child Protection Statutes so Fleet White has backed off?

.

 

[UKGuy]

In an interview with BPD John admits visiting the basement that morning somewhere about 10 AM.

John never knew that Fleet White had already searched the basement and looked into the wine-cellar, seeing nothing unusual.

Later when John and Fleet White return to search the basement, John before he has the door fully open, i.e. enough to allow ambient light to illuminate the crime-scene, immediately shouts he has found JonBenet!

Why Fleet White was unable to see JonBenet under similar lighting conditions is a mystery.

Everyone should also understand that John Ramsey had extremely poor eyesight, so poor he was unable to pilot his own plane, therefore he had to hire a pilot.

So how come John with bad eyesight can see something Fleet White could not?

This, I reckon is the reason why Fleet White returned back down to the basement to view the wine-cellar.

He wanted to check what was visible if you just opened the wine-cellar door with no light switch used?

I'm fairly confident that John moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar when he returned back down to the basement about 10 AM?

This would explain why Fleet White never noticed anything unusual when he looked in earlier that morning, i.e. John had not yet moved JonBenet?

Also with John admitting to breaking the window in the basement.

Why would JonBenet's killer latch the window on the way out

Patsy says she cleaned up all the broken glass down in the basement, yet Linda Hoffman Pugh the housemaid says she never saw any broken glass down in the basement?

Thinking it over, it makes sense for the Ramsey's to hide JonBenet's body from view, as they have just staged a kidnapping, which is not quite the same thing if you find a dead body?

So really the Ramsey's were intending to flee interstate via their private plane to wherever and leave JonBenet behind.

This was the Ramsey's game plan, simply to get out of Boulder ASAP.

Then fight extradition using expensive attorneys at a later date?

One detail that is curious is why the Partially Opened Gifts were left in the wine-cellar?

If they are Partially Opened then placing them in the wine-cellar achieves what?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Very informative regarding the light switch:

(I'm so reassured we have smart people here at WS.)


For reference, I’ll include at the end of this post the information we have (on record) relating to the light switch. It’s not necessary to read it all, but it’s there in case you want to read it. Here though is what I think happened that explains the confusion about the WC light based on what we now know:

Shortly after he arrived at the Ramsey house, Fleet White started looking through the basement trying to find JonBenet. White is a smart man. When he tried to open the WC door, he saw it was blocked by the piece of wood at the top and he turned it so the door could be opened. Knowing now where it is, I can’t believe that White couldn’t see or find the light switch just inside the door of the WC. I think after he opened the door, he found the switch and flipped it on but it didn’t turn on the light because the outlet switch was turned off. There were screens and boxes all over the room (you’ve seen the pictures) and the outlet was probably partially obscured and not visible in the darkened room. Maybe he flipped the switch on and off again with no result. I don’t know if her body was in the room at that time or if it was in a different location within the room. Maybe it too was obscured by some of the clutter in the room. In any event, seeing no exit from the room other than that door, he dismissed the thought that she might be in there in the dark. (Remember that because of a recent incident with his own daughter, he thought JonBenet might be hiding somewhere as a prank.) When he left, he closed the door and turned the wooden block back to lock the door as it was before he opened it.

Later in the morning, John Ramsey sneaked off from the others and went to this room. He knew that to turn on the light in that room, both switches had to be turned on. So he turned on the light and maybe moved the body closer to the door. Whatever he did while he was in there, he had to have turned on the light (turning on both switches). When he left, he turned the light off only at the light switch at the door. He didn’t know until his first interview with investigators in 1997 that White had been in the basement by himself before he was there. At first he told them he (Ramsey) was there “probably before 10 o’clock.” After he had learned White had been there, he tried to shave that time frame down in his 1998 interview by saying it was much earlier -- before 7:30 at first, and then agreeing to “before eight o’clock” at Lou Smit’s suggestion. (Linda Arndt said he went missing after the 10 o'clock deadline had come and gone.)

So Ramsey was the last person in the WC until Detective Arndt sent him and White to search for anything “out of place.” While White was looking at the broken window in the basement, Ramsey went to the WC, unlatched the door, opened it, and saw JonBenet’s body before flipping on the switch at the door. To White’s surprise (I imagine), when Ramsey flipped the switch, the fluorescent light lying on the bookshelf brackets came on. He probably didn’t give it that much thought at the time because of the panic in Ramsey’s voice, but later I imagine he couldn’t figure out why that same switch he had found earlier didn’t turn on the light for him but worked for Ramsey.

Most accounts of what White did that morning when he went on his own to the basement say that “he couldn’t find the light switch.” Knowing now where it was makes that implausible. Instead I think he told investigators that he “couldn’t find the switch that turned on the light.” When his statement was written by investigators and then passed on to reporters, book writers, or anyone else, I believe his words were shortened to say simply that he couldn’t find the light switch.




:lookingitup:

Bonita Papers (source used for ACR quotes):

Within minutes of arriving at the Ramsey home, Fleet decided to look around the house. His own daughter had been missing a few months ago, and after the police were called they found her hiding under her bed. Fleet was hoping that JonBenet too was just hiding somewhere in the house. Since everyone had been told by the police officers not to go upstairs, Fleet went town to the basement. He noticed that the lights were on. He found a small piece of glass from a broken window in a room used for model trains. In checking the latch for the window he discovered that it was unlocked, but closed. Fleet also noticed a blue suitcase was sitting underneath the window. He continued with his search by opening every cupboard and door. He opened the door to the wine cellar, reached inside, but could not find the light switch and could not see inside the room. The wind cellar is completely formed by cement and has no windows. Finding no evidence of anyone entering or leaving from the basement area and no trace of JonBenet, Fleet went back upstairs.​

​

...and:

While Fleet was still checking other closets, John walked to the wine cellar and tried to pull open the door. Because the top latch was secured, the door would not open. John reached up, undid the latch, and opened the door. Fleet, who was about 20 feet away, heard John exclaim, "Oh my God, oh my God," and went running to the room where John was standing. As Fleet approached the door, John flipped on the wine cellar light switch. Fleet saw the body of JonBenet laying on the floor.​

​

John said he saw the white blanket on the floor as soon as he opened the door, and when the lights came on he saw his daughter laying on the blanket.​

​

...and:

The team now concentrated on the wine cellar. Two light switches were located for this room one on the inside east wall 5 feet above the floor level, and the other on the west wall 2 feet above the floor level and 2 feet inside the doorway. Polaroid photos were taken before any of the investigators entered the room. Unfortunately, other officers had tromped through the room immediately after discovery of the body in making their own inspection of the crime scene. Even Fleet admitted that he had returned to the room twice. These actions would hamper the gathering of reliable evidence as the investigation progressed.​

​

PMPT:

After he left the train room, he turned right, into the boiler room. At the back of the room, he said, he saw a door to what the Ramseys called the wine cellar. He turned the closed wooden latch and opened the door. The room was pitch-black, he said. He didn’t enter, and he saw nothing. When he couldn’t find a light switch, he closed the door and went back upstairs. He did not remember whether or not he relatched the door. Later, when White saw John Fernie, he told him that a window downstairs had been punched open. The police wondered why White had not seen JonBenét’s body and later Ramsey had, since they both stood at the same spot after opening the door to the wine cellar.​

​

...and:

After they had washed the windows, Hoffmann-Pugh and her daughter started searching the house for the missing trees. She saw a closed door in the basement just past the boiler room, which she had never noticed before. She tried to open the door, but it was stuck shut, apparently from a recent painting. She pulled at it hard and the door finally opened. Feeling around in the dark, she found a light switch on the wall to her right.​

​

IRMI:

Moving deeper into the basement, he found the same white door that had been checked by Sergeant Reichenbach. Fleet White turned the makeshift latch and pulled the door open, toward him. It was totally dark inside, and when he could find neither of two light switches, he closed the door, relatched it, and went back upstairs. He never saw JonBenét.​

​

FF:

White then moved from the Train Room to the white door of the Wine Cellar and, unlatching the wood block, partially opened the door to that room. Unable to locate a light switch for the windowless room, White failed to see a blanket on the floor that wrapped the body of JonBenét.​

​

...and:

He then moved out of the Train Room, and down a short, dead-end hallway to a storage room that would later be identified as the Wine Cellar. A block of wood rotated on a screw to secure the door to this room, and he reportedly “unlocked” the door and peered inside. It was pitch black inside the windowless room, and unable to find a light switch, he closed the door and secured it with the wood block.​

​

...and:

John also provided specific details about immediately observing a white blanket, and his daughter’s body upon opening the cellar room door that afternoon. He reported that he saw the white blanket, in which JonBenét was wrapped, the “instant” he opened the door of the Wine Cellar. This observation purportedly took place before he flipped on the light switch.​

​

This didn’t jive with details provided by Fleet White during his interviews with detectives. White had opened the cellar door earlier that morning and reported that it was too dark to see anything without a light being turned on in the room. He had stepped partially through the door and couldn’t find a light switch, let alone see the blanket and body.​

​

...and:

Continuing his exploration of the basement, White unlatched a door and briefly looked in the darkened room identified as the Wine Cellar. Unable to find a light switch and not seeing anything in the dark, he closed the door and returned upstairs.​

​

1997 Interview:

ST: And Fleet had talked about earlier being down there, I think alone at one point, and discovering that window. When you say that you found it earlier that day and latched it, at what time of day was that?​

JR: I don’t know. I mean it would have been probably, probably before 10 o’clock.​

ST: Was that prior to Fleet’s first trip down?​

JR: I didn’t know he was in the basement. I didn’t know that. I mean other than that trip with me.​

ST: And on the trip that you latched the window, were you alone when you went down and latched the window?​

JR: Yep.​

ST: And on this, what I’m assuming is only your second trip to the basement on the 26[SUP]th[/SUP] with Fleet, how much time did you spend in the basement before moving to the cellar room door?​

JR: Not very much time. A minute maybe, or less, probably less than that.​

ST: And when you moved to that cellar room door to open the door, did you move the tag on the top of the door?​

JR: Yeah.​

ST: And did you open the door?​

JR: Yeah.​

ST: And did you open the door?​

JR: Uh-huh.​

ST: And was the light on or off?​

ST: I think it was off.​

ST: And did you turn the light on?​

JR: Probably, I don’t remember specifically turning it on, but probably would have, it’s a dark room.​

ST: From the time you opened the door of the cellar room, when did you discovered your daughter, was this a fraction of a second or a matter of seconds, give me an idea.​

JR: Instant. I mean, as soon as I opened the door I saw the white blanket. And I knew, I just saw a blanket, and I knew that was our, you know.​

ST: and was it then you instantaneously opened the door, saw the blanket, you may or may not have turned the light on?​

JR: Uh-huh.​

ST: You don’t know? In all fairness.​

JR: In fact, I don’t remember.​

​

1998 Interview:

8 LOU SMIT: And you don't know if you were​

9 the first one down there?​

10 JOHN RAMSEY: I thought I -- Well the police,​

11 they probably went through the house a bit. I​

12 don't know where they went. I heard later that​

13 Fleet White claimed he went through the basement​

14 alone. I don't know if that was before or after I​

15 did alone.​

16 LOU SMIT: That's why we're trying to​

17 determine your time. If you can get that down.​

18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I wish I can tell​

19 you precisely, but it had to be -- you see I think​

20 when the first uniformed officer came, French, he​

21 very quickly said, I want all you people in the​

22 room, and then people started showing in this​

23 room, which was the solarium where he talked, is​

24 the solarium.​

25 And then some other officers came and I my​

0281​

1 impression at that time was that they did a​

2 cursory check of the house. One of the uniformed​

3 house went through the house. That had been fairly​

4 early.​

5 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE)​

6 JOHN RAMSEY: We don't. I think it's between​

7 6:00 and 6:30. So that person should have been the​

8 first one to go through the house.​

9 I went in the basement, certainly before we were​

10 getting ready for the call. (INAUDIBLE) until​

11 eight, so that would have been eight o'clock. So​

12 we were preparing for that. By 7:30, let's say,​

13 and Fleet and I were talking about what we were​

14 going to say.​

15 LOU SMIT: Would that have been before​

16 then or after?​

17 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have been before​

18 then I believe.​

19 LOU SMIT: So it was before eight o'clock?​

20 JOHN RAMSEY: That's right. (INAUDIBLE) I'm​

21 trying to reconstruct in it my mind.​

​

 

[UKGuy]

Very informative regarding the light switch:

Rain on my Parade,

Sure is, except on the light switch, as it's ambiguous.

from otg, and the Bonita Papers (source used for ACR quotes)

John reached up, undid the latch, and opened the door. Fleet, who was about 20 feet away, heard John exclaim, "Oh my God, oh my God," and went running to the room where John was standing. As Fleet approached the door, John flipped on the wine cellar light switch. Fleet saw the body of JonBenet laying on the floor.

...

John said he saw the white blanket on the floor as soon as he opened the door, and when the lights came on he saw his daughter laying on the blanket.

BBM: states that John saw JonBenet before he flipped the switch.

Both John and Fleet corobborate each other here!

from otg, and the Bonita Papers (source used for ACR quotes)

The police wondered why White had not seen JonBenét's body and later Ramsey had, since they both stood at the same spot after opening the door to the wine cellar.

More or less the question I'm asking. Also add in John's very bad eyesight and you want to know how come Fleet could NOT see what John could under similar circumstance, e.g. NO flipped switch, just ambient light?

1997 Interview:

JR: Instant. I mean, as soon as I opened the door I saw the white blanket. And I knew, I just saw a blanket, and I knew that was our, you know.
ST: and was it then you instantaneously opened the door, saw the blanket, you may or may not have turned the light on?
JR: Uh-huh.
ST: You don't know? In all fairness.
JR: In fact, I don't remember.

How does John know to infer from a white blanket to JonBenet?

Notice how John does NOT say I saw a "Pink Barbie Nightgown and I knew right away"

Just a blanket ...

My money is on John wrapping JonBenet in the white blanket and moving her into the wine-cellar, as he had made his mind up to discover JonBenet later on?

Everything John says and everything Fleet White says agrees with this assumption, there are no grey areas.

I'm currently mulling over the possibility that John carried JonBenet, wrapped in the white blanket, down the back stairs and snagging JonBenet on the decorations?

Also after John lifts JonBenet and carry's her upstairs any forensic cross-transfer can be easily explained away.

This is why he wrapped her in a white blanket?

Just as there is no need for the ligature garrote as hands will do fine, there is NO need for the blanket, again hands would have been sufficient.


.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I'm currently mulling over the possibility that John carried JonBenet, wrapped in the white blanket, down the back stairs and snagging JonBenet on the decorations?

UKGuy,
I use to work in a building that had a spiral staircase that I used numerous times daily. There is no way you can carry a 6 year old up or down them. But great thought. It seems more likely that he would have carried her down the front stairwell, then turned the corner to the basement. The kill took place outside the wine cellar as JB voided in this location. There was so much rubbish in the basement that she could have been hidden under something there or in a crawl space. Also (thinking cap on) perhaps she was in the trunk of the car and he carried her from the garage, through the butlers pantry which led him directly to the basement door. That is also a possibility. As for the green garland from the staircases I have always thought that PR grabbed onto it (with hair tie in hand) and that’s how it got in her hair. The second hair tie made no sense.

More or less the question I'm asking. Also add in John's very bad eyesight and you want to know how come Fleet could NOT see what John could under similar circumstance, e.g. NO flipped switch, just ambient light?

Yes, JR did not know that FW had visited the wine cellar previous to the 10 o’clock timeline. So, JR is caught is a huge lie here. He knew exactly where JB was and therefore shot directly to her discovery. When it happened at the time, I thought there is no way he wasn’t involved in order for that to take place. That was from day one. How did dear old dad know where to look When everybody failed to find her? Perhaps she was in the back of the car or upstairs. It doesn’t dismiss the fact that he found her.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I use to work in a building that had a spiral staircase that I used numerous times daily. There is no way you can carry a 6 year old up or down them. But great thought. It seems more likely that he would have carried her down the front stairwell, then turned the corner to the basement. The kill took place outside the wine cellar as JB voided in this location. There was so much rubbish in the basement that she could have been hidden under something there or in a crawl space. Also (thinking cap on) perhaps she was in the trunk of the car and he carried her from the garage, through the butlers pantry which led him directly to the basement door. That is also a possibility. As for the green garland from the staircases I have always thought that PR grabbed onto it (with hair tie in hand) and that’s how it got in her hair. The second hair tie made no sense.


Yes, JR did not know that FW had visited the wine cellar previous to the 10 o’clock timeline. So, JR is caught is a huge lie here. He knew exactly where JB was and therefore shot directly to her discovery. When it happened at the time, I thought there is no way he wasn’t involved in order for that to take place. That was from day one. How did dear old dad know where to look When everybody failed to find her? Perhaps she was in the back of the car or upstairs. It doesn’t dismiss the fact that he found her.

Rain on my Parade,

Also (thinking cap on) perhaps she was in the trunk of the car and he carried her from the garage, through the butlers pantry which led him directly to the basement door. That is also a possibility. As for the green garland from the staircases I have always thought that PR grabbed onto it (with hair tie in hand) and that’s how it got in her hair. The second hair tie made no sense.

Yes, the trunk of the car is a possibility. Another consideration is: what does JR say if while moving JonBenet he meets someone enroute?

With JonBenet wrapped in the blanket, I'll bet he is going say, "I just found JonBenet".

The crawl space is definitely a possibility, how did JR know where to find a white balnket?

There is also the possibility that JonBenet was wiped down by JR during the moving phase as JonBenet may have bled into the size-12s which JR noticed?

The hair-ties are really bizarre, as the Ramsey version of events is that JonBenet was put sleeping to bed, i.e. NO hair dressing took place.

Then Coroner Meyer cites the hair-ties in his autopsy report.

This surely tells us JonBenet had made it to her bedroom, after a pineapple snack and having her hair dressed by Patsy?

If JonBenet voided on the basement floor due to her being asphyxiated then surely that was one of the parents, does all the forensic evidence fibers etc, rule in say Patsy and exclude BR?

One thing I'm speculating about is that the Ramsey's moved artifacts into the wine-cellar so that the BDI investigators would not link them to JonBenet or BR?

One really stand out clue is the broken window in the train room. John claims responsibility for that and Burke gives him an alibi too.

LHP and family never saw any broken glass when they were moving the Christmas decorations from the wine-cellar to upstairs.

Also LHP can also tell us if there were wrapped gifts in the wine-cellar?

So before JR and Patsy embarked on their Kidnapping Scenario they patently cleaned up a prior staging, one likely fabricated by Burke?


The big question is: did Burke bring JonBenet downstairs and break the window, baseball bat, etc and stage JonBenet, or could this have been Patsy's attempt at staging assuming she asphyxiated JonBenet?

The latter fits PR and JR staging BR out of some crazyness happening up in JonBenet's bedroom?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Yes, the trunk of the car is a possibility. Another consideration is: what does JR say if while moving JonBenet he meets someone enroute?

With JonBenet wrapped in the blanket, I'll bet he is going say, "I just found JonBenet".

The crawl space is definitely a possibility, how did JR know where to find a white balnket?

There is also the possibility that JonBenet was wiped down by JR during the moving phase as JonBenet may have bled into the size-12s which JR noticed?

The hair-ties are really bizarre, as the Ramsey version of events is that JonBenet was put sleeping to bed, i.e. NO hair dressing took place.

Then Coroner Meyer cites the hair-ties in his autopsy report.

This surely tells us JonBenet had made it to her bedroom, after a pineapple snack and having her hair dressed by Patsy?

If JonBenet voided on the basement floor due to her being asphyxiated then surely that was one of the parents, does all the forensic evidence fibers etc, rule in say Patsy and exclude BR?

One thing I'm speculating about is that the Ramsey's moved artifacts into the wine-cellar so that the BDI investigators would not link them to JonBenet or BR?

One really stand out clue is the broken window in the train room. John claims responsibility for that and Burke gives him an alibi too.

LHP and family never saw any broken glass when they were moving the Christmas decorations from the wine-cellar to upstairs.

Also LHP can also tell us if there were wrapped gifts in the wine-cellar?

So before JR and Patsy embarked on their Kidnapping Scenario they patently cleaned up a prior staging, one likely fabricated by Burke?


The big question is: did Burke bring JonBenet downstairs and break the window, baseball bat, etc and stage JonBenet, or could this have been Patsy's attempt at staging assuming she asphyxiated JonBenet?

The latter fits PR and JR staging BR out of some crazyness happening up in JonBenet's bedroom?

.

UKGuy,
I have also been doing a lot more research and thinking lately. I realize that PR was getting cancer treatments when JB was 3 but why did she not care whether or not either child of hers was potty trained?
The more I am looking into this case, the more confused I become on who actually committed the murder and why.

I found this picture and it is making me ponder.
Story with picture:
In the fall of 1990 the Ramsey family moved to Boulder, Colorado so John Ramsey could pursue his career with Access Graphics. It would not be until the following fall did the family move to their house on 755 Fifteenth Street. The large Tudor style house quickly became what Patsy described as a “remodeling nightmare”, and even with the long days of construction the house was not quite ready for the 1991 holiday season. None the less, Patsy and John were able to have all five of their children together for Christmas. They cleaned up a small section in the living room, and celebrated the day surrounded by holiday decorations and sheetrock. Patsy had placed a small artificial tree on top of the piano and surrounded it with gifts.

Despite the mess, everyone was happy. This would be the first and only Christmas that all seven members of the Ramsey family would celebrate together in the Boulder house. Two weeks later, on January 8th, 1992 their oldest daughter, Elizabeth Ramsey was killed in a car accident at the age of 22.

Coincidence?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I have also been doing a lot more research and thinking lately. I realize that PR was getting cancer treatments when JB was 3 but why did she not care whether or not either child of hers was potty trained?
The more I am looking into this case, the more confused I become on who actually committed the murder and why.

I found this picture and it is making me ponder.
Story with picture:
In the fall of 1990 the Ramsey family moved to Boulder, Colorado so John Ramsey could pursue his career with Access Graphics. It would not be until the following fall did the family move to their house on 755 Fifteenth Street. The large Tudor style house quickly became what Patsy described as a “remodeling nightmare”, and even with the long days of construction the house was not quite ready for the 1991 holiday season. None the less, Patsy and John were able to have all five of their children together for Christmas. They cleaned up a small section in the living room, and celebrated the day surrounded by holiday decorations and sheetrock. Patsy had placed a small artificial tree on top of the piano and surrounded it with gifts.

Despite the mess, everyone was happy. This would be the first and only Christmas that all seven members of the Ramsey family would celebrate together in the Boulder house. Two weeks later, on January 8th, 1992 their oldest daughter, Elizabeth Ramsey was killed in a car accident at the age of 22.

Coincidence?
View attachment 410485

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, John appears to have his daughters pre-decease him. Concidence, well might be, then again did his daughter suffer from any medical condition that might end in a road accident, are her medical records out there?

I guess, at a stretch, John could have arranged Elizabeth Ramsey's accident, which seems a long shot, particularly if Elizabeth Ramsey had private diary or similar locked away in some bank vault?

I have also been doing a lot more research and thinking lately. I realize that PR was getting cancer treatments when JB was 3 but why did she not care whether or not either child of hers was potty trained?

Could be her cancer treatments zoned her out. I would give PR a pass here as cancer can be so debilitating.

Still she must have eventually realized JonBenet was not being raised properly. I'd love to hear LHP's take on this as she would be picking up all the soiled sheets and pants, etc?

Similarly with Burke did her cancer treatments and her focus become diluted, resulting in PR deciding Burke was not progressing, so she concentrates on JonBenet and her pageant project with JonBenet, just dumping Burke?

Was Burke angry at the switch of attention, he seemed to enjoy his pageant outings with Patsy and JonBenet. You have to wonder if the pageant events helped form Burke's views on girls, and women?

The more I am looking into this case, the more confused I become on who actually committed the murder and why.

Well the evidence suggests Patsy asphyxiated JonBenet knowingly or not, her fibers are embedded into the ligature knotting and are on the sticky side of the duct-tape.

Patsy is patently NOT staging herself out of a homicide as she leaves all that forensic evidence behind. A better staging, for Patsy, would have been one in JonBenet's bedroom, where any forensic transfer could have happened at any point in time.

Again with the Partially Opened Gifts, she claims to have opened them, also with the size-12s, these vanish, despite Patsy stating she OPENED them and placed them in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

So from all the above I reckon Patsy is covering for someone else. Is it John or Burke?

If Burke is innocent, i.e. collateral damage, then the Colorado Child Protection Statutes have not helped him, since some evidence that might clear him cannot be made public?

There is circumstantial evidence pointing towards Burke's presence in JonBenet's bedroom and the basement on Christmas Day. e.g. Kolar's claim that Burke stated he visited the basement and opened the gifts, and his Swiss penknife left in the basement.

John was intending to flee Boulder interstate by private plane, so this makes you wonder was he just assisting Patsy in the staging to deflect attention away from Burke, or is John really the PRIME suspect?

Is this why the Grand Jury hit both parents with the same True Bills, since surely just one of them killed JonBenet?

Looks like either they thought John was abusing JonBenet with Patsy's collusion or both parents colluded to stage Burke out of a homicide?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, John appears to have his daughters pre-decease him. Concidence, well might be, then again did his daughter suffer from any medical condition that might end in a road accident, are her medical records out there?

UKGuy,
What caught my attention was the date. It is exactly 2 weeks before JB death. It occurred on the Jan. 8, hence $118,000. IMO, there are no such things as coincidence. Everything happens for a reason.

Still she must have eventually realized JonBenet was not being raised properly. I'd love to hear LHP's take on this as she would be picking up all the soiled sheets and pants, etc?

I read LHP’s statement and conclusion after the GJ. It wasn’t near as telling to me as Linda Wilcox’s statement on a candy rose.

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview
PETER BOYLES: Things that you haven't said so far, stories you haven't told, tell me about them.

LINDA WILCOX: One thing I thought was really odd, when I first worked there. Their oldest daughter, Beth, had died before I started working there. I've had a lot of death in my family, lots of family members have died, most of them prematurely. So, in the back of my photo albums, I tend to have like a collage of whoever it was, like my father, for example.

Well, he had this frame with the different holes for the different sized pictures, like a collage frame. He had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom. It wasn't even hung up at first. It stayed between, (some talking here that I can't understand - except she says, no let me go on, this is significant). He had one of those big sunken tubs and a separate shower and it sat between the tub and the wall. And then when the house flooded, which I'll tell you about later, it was right before the tour, like a week before the tour, the house flooded over Thanksgiving break which was a problem with a window and a faucet - it ran the whole time and flooded the house. Fortunately, it skipped that picture. But, at that time, it went on the wall, a few feet up and over behind the door but it stayed in his bathroom. It just, that always struck me as being kind of weird. Who keeps a picture of their dead kid in the bathroom?

Was Burke angry at the switch of attention, he seemed to enjoy his pageant outings with Patsy and JonBenet. You have to wonder if the pageant events helped form Burke's views on girls, and women?

This is what Burke told Detective Dan Schuler, in his 1998 interview:
Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons
DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?
BR: Yeah.
DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?
BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.
DS: Did you? How did you like that?
BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.
DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.
BR: That's about it.

John was intending to flee Boulder interstate by private plane, so this makes you wonder was he just assisting Patsy in the staging to deflect attention away from Burke, or is John really the PRIME suspect?

It could have gone down like this: JR SA JB. PR catches them. PR decides to hit JR upside the head with her Softball bat. JR ducks and PR hits JB Instead. BR was a witness to said act. PR then takes directives from JR. She was used to this as it was technically her role in the relationship. They were more business partners then husband and wife.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
What caught my attention was the date. It is exactly 2 weeks before JB death. It occurred on the Jan. 8, hence $118,000. IMO, there are no such things as coincidence. Everything happens for a reason.


I read LHP’s statement and conclusion after the GJ. It wasn’t near as telling to me as Linda Wilcox’s statement on a candy rose.

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview
PETER BOYLES: Things that you haven't said so far, stories you haven't told, tell me about them.

LINDA WILCOX: One thing I thought was really odd, when I first worked there. Their oldest daughter, Beth, had died before I started working there. I've had a lot of death in my family, lots of family members have died, most of them prematurely. So, in the back of my photo albums, I tend to have like a collage of whoever it was, like my father, for example.

Well, he had this frame with the different holes for the different sized pictures, like a collage frame. He had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom. It wasn't even hung up at first. It stayed between, (some talking here that I can't understand - except she says, no let me go on, this is significant). He had one of those big sunken tubs and a separate shower and it sat between the tub and the wall. And then when the house flooded, which I'll tell you about later, it was right before the tour, like a week before the tour, the house flooded over Thanksgiving break which was a problem with a window and a faucet - it ran the whole time and flooded the house. Fortunately, it skipped that picture. But, at that time, it went on the wall, a few feet up and over behind the door but it stayed in his bathroom. It just, that always struck me as being kind of weird. Who keeps a picture of their dead kid in the bathroom?


This is what Burke told Detective Dan Schuler, in his 1998 interview:
Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons
DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?
BR: Yeah.
DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?
BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.
DS: Did you? How did you like that?
BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.
DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.
BR: That's about it.


It could have gone down like this: JR SA JB. PR catches them. PR decides to hit JR upside the head with her Softball bat. JR ducks and PR hits JB Instead. BR was a witness to said act. PR then takes directives from JR. She was used to this as it was technically her role in the relationship. They were more business partners then husband and wife.

Rain on my Parade,

I read LHP’s statement and conclusion after the GJ. It wasn’t near as telling to me as Linda Wilcox’s statement on a candy rose.

Sure, yet Linda Wilcox is yet to explain all regarding her relationship with the Ramsey's, it's fair to say she probably did not like JR?

On the death of JR's oldest daughter, Beth. Everyone deals with grief differently, so if bathroom pictures of Beth helped JR process his grief, so be it.

There does not appear to be any causal link between Beth and JonBenet's death, also the circumstances were completely different.

Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons

Burke liked going to the pageants, he is not on record demanding to stay behind and play with his trains down in the Train Room?

If the case is BDI then I would bet my last dollar on pageants and sleepovers encouraging BR to be precocious?

It could have gone down like this: JR SA JB. PR catches them. PR decides to hit JR upside the head with her Softball bat. JR ducks and PR hits JB Instead. BR was a witness to said act. PR then takes directives from JR. She was used to this as it was technically her role in the relationship. They were more business partners then husband and wife.

Yes, but I reckon PR wilfully neglected JonBenet in this aspect. PR's intimate relationship with JR was under strain according to LHP, PR was looking for a way out, i.e. "What do you do with a guy like this?"

So PR catching JR en flagrante should have been no surprise. Also JonBenet's injuries go way beyond that of an accidental whack! She had multiple contusions and abrasions on her body.

JR would have restrained PR if she had launched a sustained assault on JonBenet. I'm not saying such a scenario is not plausible, as it is, just the evidence points somewhere else.

What explains JonBenet's chronic internal injuries? Why would the parents favor BR over JonBenet by asphyxiating her, what could she possibly have told medical staff if she had been allowed medical attention?

It appears there is more to the case than a surface summary yields.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Sure, yet Linda Wilcox is yet to explain all regarding her relationship with the Ramsey's, it's fair to say she probably did not like JR?

According to LHP:

While working for the Ramsey family as a housekeeper, I was able to see the interaction between John and Patsy. In the fourteen months I was there, they never once showed the slightest affection for one another.
I never once saw them embrace.
I never once saw them hold hands,
I never once saw them a kiss, or hug, or use words or terms of endearment, or speak to one another with any warmth or tenderness.
Not once.
Not ever!

According to LW:
The relationship was amiable and polite for the most part. It was a business relationship. They didn't..they weren't affectionate, they didn't act like a married couple, if I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife.

*Side note: If LW didn’t care for JR then perhaps it was because he wasn’t there by PR side during her stints in the hospital and of course the time he turned off the vacuum cleaner while she was using it w/out so much as a word. LW worked for the R’s from JB age 2 to 4.

On the death of JR's oldest daughter, Beth. Everyone deals with grief differently, so if bathroom pictures of Beth helped JR process his grief, so be it.

JR could have hung the collage of pictures of Beth in his office which was located directly outside of his bathroom and above JB porch. I recall a story of a father that sexually abused his daughter in the shower. So, it wasn’t just LW that found that unusual.

Burke liked going to the pageants, he is not on record demanding to stay behind and play with his trains down in the Train Room?

PR wouldn’t have allowed BR to stay at home by himself. He was only 9 1/2. Mothers that don‘t work are less likely to leave their other child at home (More day back in the day then present tense). Besides BR stated he didn’t like it.

If the case is BDI then I would bet my last dollar on pageants and sleepovers encouraging BR to be precocious?

You very well could be correct. Especially after his statement on Dr. Phil about JB in those pageants.

So PR catching JR en flagrante should have been no surprise. Also JonBenet's injuries go way beyond that of an accidental whack! She had multiple contusions and abrasions on her body.

This is good UKGuy. Wonder who was this angry with JB and over what exactly? I know I have read or heard that there was a bruise on JB back that looked as though somebody placed their knee there (while strangling her).

JR would have restrained PR if she had launched a sustained assault on JonBenet. I'm not saying such a scenario is not plausible, as it is, just the evidence points somewhere else.

You are correct. It obviously points to PR and BR. With that being said JR totally was out of the picture except for the fiber evidence that was found (where it should not have been). And PR fiber evidence it within the ligature, carpet, paint tray etc.

It appears there is more to the case than a surface summary yields.

Without a doubt. Looks like all three remaining family members (that night) took part.

 

[Tricia]

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[UKGuy]

According to LHP:


According to LW:
The relationship was amiable and polite for the most part. It was a business relationship. They didn't..they weren't affectionate, they didn't act like a married couple, if I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife.

*Side note: If LW didn’t care for JR then perhaps it was because he wasn’t there by PR side during her stints in the hospital and of course the time he turned off the vacuum cleaner while she was using it w/out so much as a word. LW worked for the R’s from JB age 2 to 4.


JR could have hung the collage of pictures of Beth in his office which was located directly outside of his bathroom and above JB porch. I recall a story of a father that sexually abused his daughter in the shower. So, it wasn’t just LW that found that unusual.


PR wouldn’t have allowed BR to stay at home by himself. He was only 9 1/2. Mothers that don‘t work are less likely to leave their other child at home (More day back in the day then present tense). Besides BR stated he didn’t like it.


You very well could be correct. Especially after his statement on Dr. Phil about JB in those pageants.


This is good UKGuy. Wonder who was this angry with JB and over what exactly? I know I have read or heard that there was a bruise on JB back that looked as though somebody placed their knee there (while strangling her).


You are correct. It obviously points to PR and BR. With that being said JR totally was out of the picture except for the fiber evidence that was found (where it should not have been). And PR fiber evidence it within the ligature, carpet, paint tray etc.


Without a doubt. Looks like all three remaining family members (that night) took part.

Rain on my Parade,

According to LHP:
While working for the Ramsey family as a housekeeper, I was able to see the interaction between John and Patsy. In the fourteen months I was there, they never once showed the slightest affection for one another.
I never once saw them embrace.
I never once saw them hold hands,
I never once saw them a kiss, or hug, or use words or terms of endearment, or speak to one another with any warmth or tenderness.

Not once.

Let's face it, LHP fell out of grace with the Ramsey's. She was furious the Ramsey's pointed the finger at them, etc.
So are LHP's remarks an embellishment or what?

Probably not, but LHP and her family were given a shockingly raw deal by the Ramsey's. Their lifestyle was never the same again, also LHP was banned from publishing her book, which after Fleet's White's BPD interviews, would have been full of insights, assuming LHP could hold back on the Ramsey invective?

Poor LHP another Ramsey victim tossed under the bus!

Assuming LHP's remarks above are correct, then along with what we know about PR and JR's intimate relationship, it's no surprise they were simply politely tolerating each other?

business associates

I'm certain this is how Nedra Paugh saw things. Remember her remarks about JR making the money and WE spend it, etc.

So, it wasn’t just LW that found that unusual.

Sure, why not his bedside table? It might transpire once JR leaves us that he has had a few Non-Disclosure legal instruments enforced?

Could be JR has off-the-wall erotic proclivities which disgusted Patsy, yet what we know, is this all predated the period running up to JonBenet's death.

IMO, JR is just too clean, particularly forensically, yet he has something to conceal, so much so, his Republican buddies blackballed him from running for political office, what do they know?

You very well could be correct. Especially after his statement on Dr. Phil about JB in those pageants.

Yes, suggesting JonBenet was FLAUNTING herself, tells you pretty much what his mindset was, including the mistake in voicing it. This is him as as ADULT, whut!

Also we have: According to the Bonita Papers and Patsy's LE interview that JonBenet slept in Burkes room on Christmas Eve. So where would she be intending to sleep on Christmas Night?

I reckon JonBenet made it to her bed, e.g. Patsy dressed her hair and added the hair-ties, she must have been wearing the same pajama set, as the Pink Pajama Bottoms vanished along with the size-6 pants she wore to the White's Party.

I'm thinking JonBenet was back in BR's bedroom Christmas Night, likely snacking and watching TV?

Yet, something happened which caused BR to basically go postal on JonBenet. Did she mess with some of his toys, refuse to indulge him with whatever passed for Playing Doctor, etc?

Without a doubt. Looks like all three remaining family members (that night) took part.

100% on the money. Postmortem staging too, with BR faking his being asleep all night.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Let's face it, LHP fell out of grace with the Ramsey's. She was furious the Ramsey's pointed the finger at them, etc.
So are LHP's remarks an embellishment or what?

Probably not, but LHP and her family were given a shockingly raw deal by the Ramsey's. Their lifestyle was never the same again, also LHP was banned from publishing her book, which after Fleet's White's BPD interviews, would have been full of insights, assuming LHP could hold back on the Ramsey invective?

Poor LHP another Ramsey victim tossed under the bus!

Assuming LHP's remarks above are correct, then along with what we know about PR and JR's intimate relationship, it's no surprise they were simply politely tolerating each other?

UKGuy,
My quote came from LHP book. Yes, the Ramsay’s threw them under the bus no doubt. It has been stated that PR left notes for LHP where she found the RN. LHP further stated she was convinced it was PR who had killed JB. She didn’t give her reasoning. She stated as well, that she expected to walk in one day to discover John and Patsy were filing for divorce.

Could be JR has off-the-wall erotic proclivities which disgusted Patsy, yet what we know, is this all predated the period running up to JonBenet's death.

IMO, JR is just too clean, particularly forensically, yet he has something to conceal, so much so, his Republican buddies blackballed him from running for political office, what do they know?

Well I do believe PR was disgusted with JR sexually and upset enough that she couldn’t find herself giving him what he requested (Per her conversation with LHP).
Yes, blackballing by your buddies speaks volumes in a man’s world.

Yes, suggesting JonBenet was FLAUNTING herself, tells you pretty much what his mindset was, including the mistake in voicing it. This is him as as ADULT, whut!

Makes you wonder what in the world is wrong with him! JB was merely doing what she was told! I see this as a streak of jealousy. After all he got all of PR attention until JB was born and then he was pushed aside.

Also we have: According to the Bonita Papers and Patsy's LE interview that JonBenet slept in Burkes room on Christmas Eve. So where would she be intending to sleep on Christmas Night?

Burke has stated that he sometimes slept in JB’s other bed because his was cold. Perhaps this happened Christmas night. Why were the soiled pajamas bottoms (which were too big for JB) found on her bedroom floor after the crime and soiled to boot. We already know he had a problem with sharing his poop with her. His nasty habits would be pushed to the side.

I reckon JonBenet made it to her bed, e.g. Patsy dressed her hair and added the hair-ties, she must have been wearing the same pajama set, as the Pink Pajama Bottoms vanished along with the size-6 pants she wore to the White's Party.

The dressing of Jonbenet’s hair doesn’t sit right. 1) it’s totally unnecessary 2) as the story goes JB was so zonked out she didn’t awake during her hair being redone. Picture leaning your child forward sitting up to,put in another ponytail? 3) it makes more sense to add the additional hair tie at the base of JB neck as part of the staging. Remember there was green garland also found with all this.
Sort of confused about the size 6 Wednesday pair disappearing as we don’t know exactly what was found and where. Has it ever been mentioned what was left in the dirty cloths? Surely, there was some as the house was a mess!
I also don’t know about the pink pajama bottoms disappearing. Obviously they aren’t with her top on the bed. What throws me here is how did the Barbie nightgown come into play? Especially with JB blood splattered across the front of it. Where do you suppose those pink pajama bottoms went to?

I'm thinking JonBenet was back in BR's bedroom Christmas Night, likely snacking and watching TV?

This goes back to the interview mentioning the tupperware bowl found in JB room. I don’t see it in the video so maybe it was found in BR bedroom. I can see this story being plausible though.

Yet, something happened which caused BR to basically go postal on JonBenet. Did she mess with some of his toys, refuse to indulge him with whatever passed for Playing Doctor, etc?

Burke has stated that he really hated it when JB would stomp on his Lego builds. And what do we find in the wine cellar (legos). She could have refused him playing doctor, but would this make him ballistic? Putting her fingers in his pineapple bowl is another story, IMO. He was a germ a phobe. For being a serial germ a phobe. He hated when Dr. Bernhardt drank from his coke. I understand this because I hated my mom drinking from my coke (she slobbered). Ugh. But I didn’t smear either or have toileting issues. Speaking of which LW stated that JB was doing real well with potty training but started regressing closer to four and then it progressed worse by the time she was 6. Occurring much more often. So, who had access to JB within the household for this occurrence? Why was Burke still wetting his bed at 9?

100% on the money. Postmortem staging too, with BR faking his being asleep all night.

Exactly. Why lie about this?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
My quote came from LHP book. Yes, the Ramsay’s threw them under the bus no doubt. It has been stated that PR left notes for LHP where she found the RN. LHP further stated she was convinced it was PR who had killed JB. She didn’t give her reasoning. She stated as well, that she expected to walk in one day to discover John and Patsy were filing for divorce.


Well I do believe PR was disgusted with JR sexually and upset enough that she couldn’t find herself giving him what he requested (Per her conversation with LHP).
Yes, blackballing by your buddies speaks volumes in a man’s world.


Makes you wonder what in the world is wrong with him! JB was merely doing what she was told! I see this as a streak of jealousy. After all he got all of PR attention until JB was born and then he was pushed aside.


Burke has stated that he sometimes slept in JB’s other bed because his was cold. Perhaps this happened Christmas night. Why were the soiled pajamas bottoms (which were too big for JB) found on her bedroom floor after the crime and soiled to boot. We already know he had a problem with sharing his poop with her. His nasty habits would be pushed to the side.


The dressing of Jonbenet’s hair doesn’t sit right. 1) it’s totally unnecessary 2) as the story goes JB was so zonked out she didn’t awake during her hair being redone. Picture leaning your child forward sitting up to,put in another ponytail? 3) it makes more sense to add the additional hair tie at the base of JB neck as part of the staging. Remember there was green garland also found with all this.
Sort of confused about the size 6 Wednesday pair disappearing as we don’t know exactly what was found and where. Has it ever been mentioned what was left in the dirty cloths? Surely, there was some as the house was a mess!
I also don’t know about the pink pajama bottoms disappearing. Obviously they aren’t with her top on the bed. What throws me here is how did the Barbie nightgown come into play? Especially with JB blood splattered across the front of it. Where do you suppose those pink pajama bottoms went to?


This goes back to the interview mentioning the tupperware bowl found in JB room. I don’t see it in the video so maybe it was found in BR bedroom. I can see this story being plausible though.


Burke has stated that he really hated it when JB would stomp on his Lego builds. And what do we find in the wine cellar (legos). She could have refused him playing doctor, but would this make him ballistic? Putting her fingers in his pineapple bowl is another story, IMO. He was a germ a phobe. For being a serial germ a phobe. He hated when Dr. Bernhardt drank from his coke. I understand this because I hated my mom drinking from my coke (she slobbered). Ugh. But I didn’t smear either or have toileting issues. Speaking of which LW stated that JB was doing real well with potty training but started regressing closer to four and then it progressed worse by the time she was 6. Occurring much more often. So, who had access to JB within the household for this occurrence? Why was Burke still wetting his bed at 9?


Exactly. Why lie about this?

Rain on my Parade,

It has been stated that PR left notes for LHP where she found the RN.

Strange place to leave a RN, how do you know its there if you are rushing the downstairs?

LHP further stated she was convinced it was PR who had killed JB.

I reckon she is correct, the forensic evidence places PR at the crime-scene.

She stated as well, that she expected to walk in one day to discover John and Patsy were filing for divorce.

No surprise here, might be once JR leaves us, revoked NDA's will pop up to tell us JR had extra-marital affairs?

(Per her conversation with LHP).

Was there more detail which LHP held back, intendng to publish in her book?

Makes you wonder what in the world is wrong with him! JB was merely doing what she was told! I see this as a streak of jealousy. After all he got all of PR attention until JB was born and then he was pushed aside.

IMO, BR wants us all to see JonBenet through his eyes, i.e. "I Was There." No doubt he was jealous, Patsy was spending loadsa money on JonBenet, e.g. Pageant outfits, Dance Lessons, Voice Coaching, Publicity Photographs, Travel Costs, etc.

What did BR do when he attended the pageants, did he visit the dressing-rooms etc?

BR wants us to see JonBenet as a victim who flaunted herself in public so deserved to be assaulted. That's the story running through his mind, he was there to see JonBenet performing, might be as an early puberty starter BR was affected by the pageant displays of faux adult sexuality?

I reckon the family wealth, the big house, etc, the dysfunctionality, all played a part in sculpting BR's character. BR was already affected by STATUS, which links to male sexual desire. Remember him asking some officer if he was wearing a Designer Watch? Which is alike his "flaunting" remark intending to project his sense of status.

Burke has stated that he sometimes slept in JB’s other bed because his was cold. Perhaps this happened Christmas night.

Sounds like a concocted story to me. Patsy stated similar in her explanation for JonBenet and Burke sharing rooms.

Why were the soiled pajamas bottoms (which were too big for JB) found on her bedroom floor after the crime and soiled to boot.

Patently because BR left them there. I could do a paragraph on this topic, as it offers two main perspectives: one of fear or one of pleasure?

BTW just as JonBenet was pushing back against Patsy, I reckon she was doing the same with BR, it's quite likely he was bullying her to play doctor etc?

it makes more sense to add the additional hair tie at the base of JB neck as part of the staging.

Well the additional hair tie at the base of JB neck contradicts Patsy's version of events. BR could never have dreamed the additional hair tie up as he would know what Patsy would expect to see on JonBenet.

Sort of confused about the size 6 Wednesday pair disappearing as we don’t know exactly what was found and where.

Your confused because BPD have not released the FULL details on the underwear taken from the Ramsey house.
Just that there were NO size-12's anywhere in the house!

So Patsy purchases Bloomingdales size-6 underwear for JonBenet on her NY trip. My money is on JonBenet wearing a pair of the size-6 Bloomingdales, (Wednesday pair ?), to Fleet White's Christmas Party.
Since they became bloodstained, possibly even contained semen deposits, who knows, they had to vanish. So they do not appear on any search list, i.e. they are MISSING.

Similar to above applies if they were size-4 underwear?

Has it ever been mentioned what was left in the dirty cloths? Surely, there was some as the house was a mess!

BPD have lists of the clothing removed from the Ramsey House, they are not telling us if a pair of size Bloomingdale's underwear is missing though!

I also don’t know about the pink pajama bottoms disappearing. Obviously they aren’t with her top on the bed.

The Pink Pajama set is what JonBenet wore to bed on Christmas Eve. You can see JonBenet in the pink top and bottoms in some of photographs taken Christmas morning.

Alike the underwear JonBenet wore to the White's Christmas Party, the Pink Pajama Bottoms are also missing, no cigar for telling us why.

The question to answer is did Burke and JonBenet share a bed on Christmas Night as they likely did on Christmas Eve?

Suggesting that JonBenet's bedroom is the primary crime-scene, kinda makes sense if you reckon the case is BDI, otherwise you have to explain why JonBenet's kidnapper took her underwear and pajama bottoms, but left her behind?

Where do you suppose those pink pajama bottoms went to?

The same route her underwear took.

What throws me here is how did the Barbie nightgown come into play?

Might just be staging that went wrong, i.e. too much postmortem blood?

So they double-down on the Gap Top and Burke's longjohns after JR wipes JonBenet down?

That is Barbie nightgown could have been Burke's idea, which was then vetoed by the parents?

And what do we find in the wine cellar (legos).

Yes, even Kolar speculates along these lines. This has more force if you think most of the stuff in the wine-cellar, is staging, or has just been dumped there, out of sight?

Why was Burke still wetting his bed at 9?

They were a dysfunctional family. Patsy never raised her kids properly, both Burke and JonBenet displayed toileting issues from a young age. It's entirely possible Burke misinterprets his toileting routine in a pathological manner, i.e. linking it with eroticism, etc?

Wetting the bed at Burke's age is a sign of familial stress which plays out once he is in deep sleep, most children grow out of it.

Exactly. Why lie about this?

Because like the pineapple snack they forgot Burke was recorded on the 911 call, or were just plain ignorant.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Strange place to leave a RN, how do you know its there if you are rushing the downstairs?

UKGuy,
You can not step over or around on a ring of those spiral stairs. She would have had to step on the rn. Seeing how PR left notes there for LHP; I would suggest this is another concocted statement.

I reckon she is correct, the forensic evidence places PR at the crime-scene.

It also helps explain the dramatics of PR behavior the morning of the 26th.

I reckon the family wealth, the big house, etc, the dysfunctionality, all played a part in sculpting BR's character. BR was already affected by STATUS, which links to male sexual desire. Remember him asking some officer if he was wearing a Designer Watch? Which is alike his "flaunting" remark intending to project his sense of status.

Also JR was out of town most of the time. So he had an absent father. I have not heard that status affects male sexual desire. Interesting indeed! Good point about the watch. Why would a child be concerned about a Rolex? A sense of status at 9. Also, so very interesting!

They were a dysfunctional family. Patsy never raised her kids properly, both Burke and JonBenet displayed toileting issues from a young age. It's entirely possible Burke misinterprets his toileting routine in a pathological manner, i.e. linking it with eroticism, etc?

Wetting the bed at Burke's age is a sign of familial stress which plays out once he is in deep sleep, most children grow out of it.

I understand the toileting issue because PR was so sick. But then she couldn’t even tell BR to stop whittling around the house; much less teach him about proper toileting.
Oh my! Linking toileting routine with eroticism!

Well the additional hair tie at the base of JB neck contradicts Patsy's version of events. BR could never have dreamed the additional hair tie up as he would know what Patsy would expect to see on JonBenet.

Contradicts PR statement .. I.e. JB was zonked out when they got home. No BR wouldn’t have messed with JB hair. So, wondering does this mean PR struck JB in the head as well as strangling her?

Suggesting that JonBenet's bedroom is the primary crime-scene, kinda makes sense if you reckon the case is BDI, otherwise you have to explain why JonBenet's kidnapper took her underwear and pajama bottoms, but left her behind?

JB sheets looked like somebody had pulled her off of it. It looks like a crime scene. BR bedroom seemed clean for leaving wood shavings all over the house. I wouldn’t call him a clean person for leaving his soiled underpants on JB floor. At least his toy chest is stuffed full in a messy manner.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
You can not step over or around on a ring of those spiral stairs. She would have had to step on the rn. Seeing how PR left notes there for LHP; I would suggest this is another concocted statement.


It also helps explain the dramatics of PR behavior the morning of the 26th.


Also JR was out of town most of the time. So he had an absent father. I have not heard that status affects male sexual desire. Interesting indeed! Good point about the watch. Why would a child be concerned about a Rolex? A sense of status at 9. Also, so very interesting!


I understand the toileting issue because PR was so sick. But then she couldn’t even tell BR to stop whittling around the house; much less teach him about proper toileting.
Oh my! Linking toileting routine with eroticism!


Contradicts PR statement .. I.e. JB was zonked out when they got home. No BR wouldn’t have messed with JB hair. So, wondering does this mean PR struck JB in the head as well as strangling her?


JB sheets looked like somebody had pulled her off of it. It looks like a crime scene. BR bedroom seemed clean for leaving wood shavings all over the house. I wouldn’t call him a clean person for leaving his soiled underpants on JB floor. At least his toy chest is stuffed full in a messy manner.

Rain on my Parade,

Also JR was out of town most of the time. So he had an absent father. I have not heard that status affects male sexual desire. Interesting indeed! Good point about the watch. Why would a child be concerned about a Rolex? A sense of status at 9. Also, so very interesting!

Yes, JR absent, PR doing her best with BR but eventually failing then turning to JonBenet and pageants, etc.
All this would have effected BR's sense of status or self value in a negative manner.

Check all the adverts on your media that promote products using attractive women, somewhere in the advert a high status guy using the product attracts the women.

Obviously this is the storyline for guys, it can be patently fake, false or contrived, but guys buy it due to the strong link between desire and status.

So living in a condominium, or house such as the Ramsey's owned, driving a Sports Car, wearing a $10,000 Rolex, wearing a hand-made suit, wearing hand-made shoes, wearing Gold Neck-Chains, etc, are all status indicators saying something about the owner.

In some guys the skewed sense of status, (Purchased), lead to behavoural displays of entitlement and the expectation of preferential treatment.

WRT Burke his Christmas gifts are high status, e.g. Nintendo, Lego etc. Consider his attitude towards LHP and his whittling everywhere, he thinks LHP has a lower status, i.e. house-maid, this is him at 9-years old! I could roll off a list of examples that explicitly link BR with status goods.

So the link between desire and status can become pathological, resulting in bizarre outcomes, just consider recent publicity relating to Jeff Bezos, Donald Trump, etc.

I understand the toileting issue because PR was so sick. But then she couldn’t even tell BR to stop whittling around the house; much less teach him about proper toileting.
Oh my! Linking toileting routine with eroticism!

Yes, there is no doubt BR had toileting issues. Patsy tried to cover them up by referring to JonBenet all the time.
All the books just assume BR grew up normal over time, and it was JonBenet who developed bedwetting problems.

Oh my! Linking toileting routine with eroticism!

Sure, how else do we explain his pajama bottoms on JonBenet's bedroom floor? There is another interpretation but it explains little of the forensic evidence and what took place in JonBenet's bedroom?

So, wondering does this mean PR struck JB in the head as well as strangling her?

Possibly, as in a failed attempt to kill her or even just effect a staging?

JB sheets looked like somebody had pulled her off of it. It looks like a crime scene.

Sure looks that way. BR's bedroom is suspiciously far too clean in the crime-scene pictures, considering he was supposed to have guested JonBenet on Christmas Eve?

Might actually be that he was in JonBenet's bedroom on Christmas Eve, and Patsy's account is just an attempt to avoid linking BR with JonBenet's bedroom, period.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, JR absent, PR doing her best with BR but eventually failing then turning to JonBenet and pageants, etc.
All this would have effected BR's sense of status or self value in a negative manner.

Check all the adverts on your media that promote products using attractive women, somewhere in the advert a high status guy using the product attracts the women.

Obviously this is the storyline for guys, it can be patently fake, false or contrived, but guys buy it due to the strong link between desire and status.

So living in a condominium, or house such as the Ramsey's owned, driving a Sports Car, wearing a $10,000 Rolex, wearing a hand-made suit, wearing hand-made shoes, wearing Gold Neck-Chains, etc, are all status indicators saying something about the owner.

In some guys the skewed sense of status, (Purchased), lead to behavoural displays of entitlement and the expectation of preferential treatment.

WRT Burke his Christmas gifts are high status, e.g. Nintendo, Lego etc. Consider his attitude towards LHP and his whittling everywhere, he thinks LHP has a lower status, i.e. house-maid, this is him at 9-years old! I could roll off a list of examples that explicitly link BR with status goods.

So the link between desire and status can become pathological, resulting in bizarre outcomes, just consider recent publicity relating to Jeff Bezos, Donald Trump, etc.

UKGuy,
Thank you for explaining this. I thought this was only something women did to impress others. Most men I have known do not fall under this umbrella. Sometimes, I feel I live on another planet. But in my own defense I do live in cowboy country.

Yes, there is no doubt BR had toileting issues. Patsy tried to cover them up by referring to JonBenet all the time.
All the books just assume BR grew up normal over time, and it was JonBenet who developed bedwetting problems.

Makes one wonder why one of the books found on PR night table (given to her by her Mom) was ‘Why Johnnie can’t tell right from wrong‘?

Sure, how else do we explain his pajama bottoms on JonBenet's bedroom floor? There is another interpretation but it explains little of the forensic evidence and what took place in JonBenet's bedroom?

I would the take this to read: BR was the one leaving grapefruit size poop in JB bed. This boy has so many issues! People take note!

Possibly, as in a failed attempt to kill her or even just effect a staging?

An 8” cracked skull is some very serious staging if this is the case.

Might actually be that he was in JonBenet's bedroom on Christmas Eve, and Patsy's account is just an attempt to avoid linking BR with JonBenet's bedroom, period.

BR stated himself that JB slept in his room Christmas Eve. Remember he set his alarm for the occasion and then was told to go back to bed until his folks came down? He looked down at the Christmas tree and saw the handlebars of the bike and was excited. As he explained “vroom, vroom”. It is possible that BR spent Christmas night in JB other bed though.