TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[YepperBepper]

No I don’t, but I think if there is ideology in the manifesto that others relate to then it might influence them to act.

Hypothetical - let’s say the manifesto says group A tries to limit, persecute, infringe on group b and group b needs to rise up against group a. Then other members of group b that may feel they’ve been treated poorly by group a may then feel they need to act against group a.

Clearly anyone who really thinks and feels that violence towards others solves anything or is the answer needs help. They aren’t thinking clearly and probably have untreated mental health issues.

I would agree with your premise 20 years ago. Or maybe 10. Maybe.

But social media, the internet, etc has really made most of this moot. There's a hate group for almost everyone. There's a safe space for everyone who holds a grudge or dislikes one group or another. There's a "gang" who tells you/or your child that they will be a new family and that they love you/them. They hold the same "values". White Supremacists. Pedophiles. Antisemetics. Religious Cults. Activists of every sort.

If manifestos, detailed books about serial killers, etc had that much influence in this country, we'd have a lot more than 100 (or less) people killed in mass shootings each year. I'd blame video games and music first.....and I don't think that has much of an impact, either...but some folks do. All imo

 

[YepperBepper]

“Truth is none of us know why she did that,’ Sims’ sister said of the rampage.

‘Nothing about what she [Hale] has done is Ok, we’ve not had any contact with that girl for years due to other things.

‘We all played middle school basketball together. That’s it and that is all. Granted everyone was welcomed to my sister’s funeral and that’s when we saw her for the first time in a while.

‘She then popped up uninvited to my sister’s painting that my mom held a few weeks ago (odd) and still don’t know how she found out.

‘So with all due respect don’t attach my family, especially my sister, to this mess.’

Woman condemns claims twin's death drove trans Nashville shooter

A grieving twin has lashed out at 'disgusting' suggestions that her sibling's tragic car crash death last year somehow triggered The Covenant School massacre.

www.dailymail.co.uk

BBM, from other articles I thought Audrey was in a relationship with the car accident victim. But the car accident’s twin sister’s statement does not make it seem that way at all. More like there hadn’t been recent contact between Audrey and the deceased.

The more we find out about Audrey the more troubled she seems.

The first article suggested it was odd infatuation. Unrequited. Additionally, it seems that everyone that Hale made contact with recently haven't actually had contact in years...including the person chosen for the final Instagram message. Imho

 

[steeltowngirl]

If I were a person intent on mass killing, I suspect the surveillance footage would be of the greatest interest to me. It was great camera angles, very sharp and you could essentially see and feel those moments. My heart was pounding. Imho

I’d like to hope that a wannabe copycat would see the footage of the shooter himself being shot to death by LE, and then think twice. But realistically, I know that a sick person may also see that as part of the thrill, and it is the outcome they seek - suicide in a blaze of evil glory.

 

[veronica.mars]

IMO I wish they wouldn't make it available to the public but would go into some kind of database for psychiatrists, LE, etc to study if needed.

into some kind of database for psychiatrists, LE, Websleuthers,etc to study if needed.

Fixed it for you. imo and lol

 

[iamnotagolem]

I would agree with your premise 20 years ago. Or maybe 10. Maybe.

But social media, the internet, etc has really made most of this moot. There's a hate group for almost everyone. There's a safe space for everyone who holds a grudge or dislikes one group or another. There's a "gang" who tells you/or your child that they will be a new family and that they love you/them. They hold the same "values". White Supremacists. Pedophiles. Antisemetics. Religious Cults. Activists of every sort.

If manifestos, detailed books about serial killers, etc had that much influence in this country, we'd have a lot more than 100 (or less) people killed in mass shootings each year. I'd blame video games and music first.....and I don't think that has much of an impact, either...but some folks do. All imo

Good point. There is no shortage of hate.

 

[YepperBepper]

I’d like to hope that a wannabe copycat would see the footage of the shooter himself being shot to death by LE, and then think twice. But realistically, I know that a sick person may also see that as part of the thrill, and it is the outcome they seek - suicide in a blaze of evil glory.

That my gut, steel. The infamy of it all seems to be the thing with most of these folks. Put the surveillance footage and the body cam footage together...and it's a heart pounding suspense movie that culminates in a slaughter of innocents. Put that footage in other hands, and it's a goal to reach. Imho

ETA add in those Instagram messages..and it's all right there, with little research or reading necessary. Imho

 

[formerlyme]

Well, I for one am not ready to believe the inside edition report. I haven't heard any mention of he being the pastor of her parents or that being their church and I. I just don't think it is so but I could be proven wrong. I don't feel it right now, but I do think that those three children were simply just separate from the other ones and she walked into the chapel. I I am still waiting for more information on people's locations etc. In the building

 

[Breezie]

Well, I for one am not ready to believe the inside edition report. I haven't heard any mention of he being the pastor of her parents or that being their church and I. I just don't think I could be proven wrong. I don't feel it right now, but I do think that those three children were simply just separate from the other ones and she walked into the chapel. I I am still waiting for more information on people's locations etc. In the building

The former Covenant pastor would have no reason to lie but he also didn’t say who told him that AH was being counseled at the church. It might not have been the parents’ church but Pastor Scruggs could have been recommended to them. He might have more experience with gender/identity issues than pastors at other churches. Her parents may have requested that she seek counseling since she was residing in their home.

AH did some surveillance before this. The only reason that she would have requested counseling from Pastor Scruggs would have been if it were part of her surveillance scheme to spend time there.

 

[YepperBepper]

I do too. Especially after LE has said the attack was not targeted toward any individuals.

If there is any truth to what the pastor said on Inside Edition, and the one child was particularly targeted …. may there be a very special place in hell for AH.

Am I incorrect in my memory? Didn't LE indicate that Hale shot indiscriminately? Inho

 

[JennieM]

Am I incorrect in my memory? Didn't LE indicate that Hale shot indiscriminately? Inho

They said she hadn't targeted anyone.

 

[YepperBepper]

The former Covenant pastor would have no reason to lie but he also didn’t say who told him that AH was being counseled at the church. It might not have been the parents’ church but Pastor Scruggs could have been recommended to them. He might have more experience with gender/identity issues than pastors at other churches. Her parents may have requested that she seek counseling since she was residing in their home.

AH did some surveillance before this. The only reason that she would have requested counseling from Pastor Scruggs would have been if it were part of her surveillance scheme to spend time there.

He may have been providing grief counseling? According to the articles about the basketball teammate, there seems to have been an obsession with her death.

And very good point .. perhaps Hale chose to see the Pastor so mapping /security issues could be completed.

 

[Breezie]

He may have been providing grief counseling? According to the articles about the basketball teammate, there seems to have been an obsession with her death.

And very good point .. perhaps Hale chose to see the Pastor so mapping /security issues could be completed.

She left the school after 4th grade. Unless she had a photographic memory, she wasn’t going to remember the school layout. She also wouldn’t know about updates to the school or their level of security unless she went there,

 

[JennieM]

dbm

 

[veronica.mars]

"Through tears we trust that she is in the arms of Jesus who will raise her to life once again," Scruggs said in a statement shared with reporters.

Pastor shares 1-sentence response to daughter's death in Nashville shooting

"Through tears we trust that she is in the arms of Jesus who will raise her to life once again," Chad Scruggs said in a statement.

www.newsweek.com

 

[JennieM]

I was uncomfortable with that pastor giving out personal information, if true. At least there's a face for the source.

Especially involving someone who is a grieving father.

 

[iamshadow21]

She left the school after 4th grade. Unless she had a photographic memory, she wasn’t going to remember the school layout. She also wouldn’t know about updates to the school or their level of security unless she went there,

I went to an infants school (K, 1, 2) of a similar size from '87-'89. I still remember where the different classrooms were, the library, the office. I haven't been to the site in over thirty years. I remember where the staircases were between the floors, the bubblers (water fountains), and what equipment was in the playground and where it was placed. And yet I struggle to remember things from more recent years.

I agree though, unless he'd been recently, he wouldn't have known about recent security measures. Updates, possibly. How common is it for a school to announce things like 'unveiling our new gym!' on official social media, with pictures?

MOO

 

[RainbowRoad]

I'm blown away by the footage, both bodycam and school cameras. I can't believe how quickly the school locked it all down. This could have been WAY worse. The fact that they could not find more people to shoot - I know they would have. Where are the children in all of this footage? It hurts a lot for those that were lost, but the school did a great job. As did the police.

 

[Breezie]

I went to an infants school (K, 1, 2) of a similar size from '86-'88. I still remember where the different classrooms were, the library, the office. I haven't been to the site in over thirty years. I remember where the staircases were between the floors, the bubblers (water fountains), and what equipment was in the playground and where it was placed. And yet I struggle to remember things from more recent years.

I agree though, unless he'd been recently, he wouldn't have known about recent security measures. Updates, possibly. How common is it for a school to announce things like 'unveiling our new gym!' on official social media, with pictures?

MOO

She might have remembered a lot of those things. She wouldn't have been allowed to wander aimlessly throughout the school, but if she was getting counseling there, and asked for a tour, because she was a former student, then she probably would have been shown around the school.

 

[JennieM]

Do you think spree killers read others' manifestos and research on manifestos before killing?

It's a bit too late to suppress all the many, many ideological webstes/forums that explore this kind of thing (most without the integrity of rules that WS has).

IMO. I have no data that shows that spree killers read each others ideological positions. Would love to see some.


Welp, I guess most of us who try to study this stuff professionally should just give up.

I guess social media (including WS) is by far enough to solve all problems in society.

Let's just suppress information as far as possible and hope for the best. Right? I do get it. As it is, there are "databases" that the public doesn't usually access - but making a database just for some occupations (outside LE) is an odd idea to me. Oh well. If this is what people believe will work, that's what will happen.

If something is available to psychiatrists, psychologists, LE, anthropologists, criminologists, sociologists, nurses, general practitioners (all of whom need the info), should we spend resources on making other information seekers be banned (all forensic sciences? which expand daily?) Are we researchers supposed to get special clearance? LE itself is vast. How is this supposed to be contained? No freedom of the press?

Journalists are to be excluded?

Almost no one reads these "manifestos" anyway - so I don't understand the concern. How many of you actually read the Unabomber stuff? Anyone able to list more manifestos than just the Unabomber?

IMO.

The concern to me is that of reward.

These killers crave notoriety, they want us to look at them, talk about them, remember them. Which we do.

They write their manifesto for us to read. Well, I don't think we should gratify them. We should remove this last right.

 

[Sundog]

The only appropriate counseling a pastor should be doing is grief counseling. IMHO.

Beyond that, if they don't have credentials, I doubt they can be helpful in any way. Imho

Assuming this is true, of course. Who knows? He said, "that's what he heard"...am I right?

It's kind of crappy for a pastor to go on inside edition and do this? I can't imagine LE being thrilled about it.

Imho

We don't know if he had a degree in pastoral counseling and was a licensed therapist/counselor in the state. This is very common among clergy, some go back to school to work on their doctorate while serving in the ministry, often after receiving their master's degree for the ministry.

I do think that this information on Inside Edition needs to be confirmed before we accept it at face value. But it does sound like there was some relationship between the pastor and the shooter. We still have a lot to learn about this case. Lots of unanswerd questions with some likely to be answered in her "manifesto."