TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[JennieM]

Perhaps contact with the pastor made her have a better understanding of the school's security measures.(IF he did counsel her).

 

[JennieM]

Oh, I don’t doubt this has been something the shooter has considered or planned for a long time… but why now, as opposed to say, a few months ago or a few months from now? It seems at least possible to me that the painting thing that he showed up at could’ve sent him into a spiral of actually following through.

I took it to mean a link between the pastor and his daughter being potentially targeted, not that the pastor did something wrong, but perhaps in the shooter’s mind, a punishment of sorts for the pastor for perceived wrongs.

Thank you for wording it better.

 

[YepperBepper]

Perhaps contact with the pastor made her have a better understanding of the school's security measures.

Agree. The contact may have been purposeful on her end...again . .if it did happen. Imho

 

[iamshadow21]

Lovely article on ABC Australia (our national public broadcaster, like NPR) about the three adults who lost their lives.

'She would run to it, not from it': Head teacher and other victims of Nashville school shooting remembered

 

[YepperBepper]

Thank you for wording it better.

Apologies for my post. I just re-read it. I did not word it well. I just jumped off of your post and did not mean to insinuate that "you" personally, were making accusations or jumping to conclusions. Frankly, I'm guilty of it. I ALWAYS want to know why....so I'll go down the rabbit hole.

My point was generic. Several people have already been thrown in the pool as possible triggers for this event...and until we know the whole ugly truth, that will continue. The Mass Murderer is still capable of hurting people, post mortem.

(Again...apologies).

 

[JennieM]

Apologies for my post. I just re-read it. I did not word it well. I just jumped off of your post and did not mean to insinuate that "you" personally, were making accusations or jumping to conclusions. Frankly, I'm guilty of it. I ALWAYS want to know why....so I'll go down the rabbit hole.

My point was generic. Several people have already been thrown in the pool as possible triggers for this event...and until we know the whole ugly truth, that will continue. The Mass Murderer is still capable of hurting people, post mortem.

(Again...apologies).

I couldn't say what I wanted clearly, I edited my reply so many times, I don't think I made much sense at the end. I didn't think you were accusing me so no need to apologise to me, but thank you!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*I came across this short personal story. I’m touched.

CAUDILL: Are we just going to keep letting this happen? How many - do we have that many Katherine Koonces that can just be erased? That woman was a tree. And to uproot her, you're talking about a loss of generations of knowledge and building and empowering. We can't afford that.

MARTÍNEZ: That's Anna Caudill talking about her friend Katherine Koonce, who was killed Monday by a mass shooter at the Covenant School in Nashville. Transcript provided by NPR

Remembering Katherine Koonce, a victim of the mass shooting in Nashville

Anna Caudill shares her memories of Katherine Koonce, 60, the headmaster at The Covenant School, who was among six people killed at the school in Nashville on Monday in a mass shooting.

www.ypradio.org

 

[evilwise]

Mass shooters always have grievances, that's how it works. For Audrey to have had a list of schools doesn't seem to me as much like a case of targeting a specific person who actually abused her as perhaps holding a more conservative school system she considered to be generally accountable for stifling her sexual identity in childhood and causing her to be awkward or whatever and to feel like it was that schooling path that caused her to be "awkward" and have difficulty forming relationships. I would guess that she sort of vicariously experienced relationships through fixations on her former basketball teammates.

I'm not going to sleuth them to be able to speculate about exactly what sort of relationships but I can imagine how one of them dying unexpectedly might push a person who has for a long time fantasized about being/being with/being like them over an edge to where idle thoughts of killing/dying could start becoming real plans.

 

[waldojabba]

Here is the former pastor Jim Bachmann remembering Mike Hill. <modsnip>

Former pastor at Covenant School remembers custodian Mike Hill well

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I said back on the last thread that I think gender, autism, and mental illness were distractions, here.

That this was another young man deciding to blame the world for his anger and his problems and take it out on a vulnerable population with a gun. It's why I think the manifesto will be, in essentials, exactly like all the others we've seen from the hundreds of other mass murderers before him. It won't have answers that are understandable to any of us.

We all suffer, we all experience grief, most of us who don't fit the cis/hetero mould experience stuff from our families that is soul-crushing. But we don't get a gun and kill innocent people. We don't target schools, or churches, or malls.

We create found families for ourselves. We go to therapy, and if we can't afford therapy, we work on ourselves as best we can. We look for the shining places between the pain.

I find this kind of offender impossible to understand. I cannot comprehend the arrogance, the selfishness, the entitlement that must exist within them, to think that making others die and suffer is their right. To make people who never hurt them hurt. I really can't.

MOO

Autism? I had not heard that.

I agree with what you are saying. As humans, we are constantly trying to figure out a pattern of events so that we can better understand them and perhaps prevent them from occurring again. However, not everything is a pattern, and not every variable causes an event.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I'm sure USA today did publish it. It's clear that's what people want to hear.

Not an academic approach - or even real journalism. Just USA Today (which I am very familiar with - it's not exactly investigative journalism).

What does publishing mean in this context? Because I can't find a single person in my own social circle (academics, police, students) who have read any manifestos from mass killers. Who reads them?

IMO. Sincerely wanting to know.

It was clearly identified as an opinion piece, written by a Professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

“Truth is none of us know why she did that,’ Sims’ sister said of the rampage.

‘Nothing about what she [Hale] has done is Ok, we’ve not had any contact with that girl for years due to other things.

‘We all played middle school basketball together. That’s it and that is all. Granted everyone was welcomed to my sister’s funeral and that’s when we saw her for the first time in a while.

‘She then popped up uninvited to my sister’s painting that my mom held a few weeks ago (odd) and still don’t know how she found out.

‘So with all due respect don’t attach my family, especially my sister, to this mess.’

Woman condemns claims twin's death drove trans Nashville shooter

A grieving twin has lashed out at 'disgusting' suggestions that her sibling's tragic car crash death last year somehow triggered The Covenant School massacre.

www.dailymail.co.uk

BBM, from other articles I thought Audrey was in a relationship with the car accident victim. But the car accident’s twin sister’s statement does not make it seem that way at all. More like there hadn’t been recent contact between Audrey and the deceased.

The more we find out about Audrey the more troubled she seems.

The school age friend whom she texted ahead of time was from a similar time frame in her life. She also said that she hadn't seen Audrey or heard from her in years. Obviously that team and time of her life were very important to her?

Former teammate of Nashville school shooter got unusual Instagram messages before rampage | CNN

CNN's Don Lemon talks with Averianna Patton, a former teammate and classmate of Nashville shooting suspect 28-year-old Audrey Hale, who received messages from Hale minutes before the shooting.

www.cnn.com

 

[mister happy]

I'm blown away by the footage, both bodycam and school cameras. I can't believe how quickly the school locked it all down. This could have been WAY worse. The fact that they could not find more people to shoot - I know they would have. Where are the children in all of this footage? It hurts a lot for those that were lost, but the school did a great job. As did the police.

I agree, it could have been a lot worse. Audrey Hale was armed with two assault rifles and a 9mm handgun. There was plenty of time to do more mayhem, but as you mentioned, Hale couldn't find more people to shoot. Compare this to last year's Robb Elementary School shooting which left 21 dead and 17 wounded.

Hopefully more details will emerge on how the Covenant School and the police minimized this tragedy. A blessed RIP to the three children and three adults who lost their lives to a deranged Audrey Hale.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Understand.

Motive would be nice in this case....before things go too far. Lots of reputations can be ruined based on speculation. I'd suggest when things are unknown, we all try to come up with the "why" and sometimes people's lives are ruined by those speculations.

This far, I've seen: Parents didn't accept Hale's Identity, which put the perp over the edge. The Dead Teammate and Hale had a possible relationship and the teammates death caused her to lose it....but they really didn't have a relationship and the twin sister had to defend her deceased sister's reputation from being associated with a child murderer. <modsnip>

Publish the manifesto!

Imho

I'm not sure that the manifesto is going to provide clear answers. She may have believed that any of these people wronged her when they did not. Reading the ramblings is not going to make it make sense.

 

[Sundog]

I'm not sure that the manifesto is going to provide clear answers. She may have believed that any of these people wronged her when they did not. Reading the ramblings is not going to make it make sense.

The manifesto may or may not provide motive, but we won't know until it is released. A Christian church school was attacked and we need to know if this was a hate crime directed at Christian children. The same would be true if it was a mosque or synagogue, or a grocery store that served mainly a specific demographic.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm not sure that the manifesto is going to provide clear answers. She may have believed that any of these people wronged her when they did not. Reading the ramblings is not going to make it make sense.

Reading her ramblings might make all of it make sense, according to how she saw things.
Although, we can't know that either way, without reading it.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Reading her ramblings might make all of it make sense, according to how she saw things.
Although, we can't know that either way, without reading it.

I still think that LE has already read it. I have not and will not read any of these people's ramblings. I don't particularly care to hear how she feels she's been wronged and how killing 3 nine year olds makes that better. Screw her.

 

[evilwise]

The whole point of psychology is to make sense of irrational thought with the goal of guiding it to be more rational.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I still think that LE has already read it. I have not and will not read any of these people's ramblings. I don't particularly care to hear how she feels she's been wronged and how killing 3 nine year olds makes that better. Screw her.

I completely understand the sentiment, but I also think that's exactly the kind of information that needs to come out and be understood, if we as a society ever hope to address the root issues that mass shooters are dealing with in their heads.

Who/what were her influences?
What websites did she visit every day?
What kind of messages were/are they promoting?
What sort of idealogy did she personally hold to?
Was childhood trauma involved?
(add a million more questions that only qualified mental health professionals would be able to list)

People don't just wake up one day and decide to kill innocent children. That's a process (shooting range a year ago), and there are loads of things that make up that process and those decisions, whether they make any sense to rational people or not. I mean, society is already constantly asking "why" these things happen so, if we really want to know, we need to look closer and ask the right questions.

jmo

 

[veronica.mars]

This article about the former pastor who, inappropriately imo, shared that she was receiving counseling from Pastor Scruggs (Covenant PCA’s pastor) has a theory in it.

It seems to suggest that his other children went to other schools (and if they’re older than sixth grade, they must) and posits that those might be the other targeted schools.

I hope that’s not true and it was random simply because that is somehow less sick than killing someone’s children because of a problem with him, imo.

But if it is true, imo it could mean something for other Christian pastors who offer help to those outside of their congregations

Nashville shooter did NOT have sessions with school's head pastor

Ex-pastor at the school Jim Bachmann has now walked back his claim that shooter Audrey Hale was receiving private sessions from the current pastor of the school - Chad Scruggs.

www.dailymail.co.uk