4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[Trebor5591]

If the State doesn't have a lot more evidence by June (and I personally believe it has a lot more) OR if that evidence doesn't corroborate the PCA, then, yes, BK is well situated to avoid trial and be a free man again. Using the same pile of evidence with a GJ is unlikely to return results, if the evidence is so poor.

IMO.

He will absolutely never be a free man again, IMO.

* His DNA on the knife sheath, found beside a murdered girl.
* His car seen on the various cameras in the neighborhood of the murder and at the right time.
* The roommate seeing a masked man of his size and build leaving the murder scene.
* His cell phone tracking data showing him visiting the murder scene the next day.

If this is all the evidence against him, and its not, its enough for a conviction. I feel it likely he will ultimately accept a plea deal--life in prison for a guilty plea. IMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The only blood noted outside of two bedrooms is the latent footprint. No other blood is noted in LE documents, so far.

I think the two rooms were bloody, but not necessarily the entire living room/kitchen area (especially after seeing where the evidence markers were placed and where the investigators spent their time during the early days of the investigation, as captured in photos published in MSM).

IMO.

Cop on Idaho Murders Case Details Bloody Scene in Court Docs

Details redacted from the affidavit filed in Idaho were revealed in documents unsealed in Washington State.

www.insideedition.com

"The four University of Idaho students slain in November were attacked with such force that there was significant blood, spatter, and castoff throughout the Idaho home where the bodies were found, according to court records."

Blood-soaked Idaho crime scene 'major challenge' for investigators: expert

The crime scene where four Idaho college students were slaughtered will be grueling to process given the number of victims and amount of blood, an expert told Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

"From a blood evidence standpoint, this is a profoundly bloody scene," said Joseph Scott Morgan, distinguished scholar of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University. "It's going to be a very complicated case when you go through blood evidence, when you go to do DNA typing. It's a major challenge.""

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

"“There was blood everywhere. We have investigators who have been on the job for 20, even 30, years, and they say they have never seen anything like this,” a police source close to the probe told the outlet."

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If they hadn't felt the need to use a subpoena, there is a good chance the public wouldn't even know anything unless/until BF appeared at the hearing.

The other issue is that none of the records were sealed via motion/order, so I did a little research, and IMO the documents we saw didn't qualify for the exemptions under Idaho law, much less Nevada where records are much more open. None of the specific exemptions appear to apply, so a motion to redact or seal likely would have failed imo. I think you're right - a subpoena was required to get this done. I don't think that the subpoena was about PR at all. I think it's about a fair trial and a robust defense, and the latter is something everyone should want because failure to provide adequate defense (ineffective assistance of counsel) is grounds for appeal.

Nevada

Court rules to seal/redact: Part VII.  Rules Governing Sealing and Redacting Court Records

https://bop.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/bopnvgov/content/Services/Nevada%20Public%20Records%20Act%20-%20A%20Manual%20for%20State%20Agencies%202019.pdf

https://ag.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/agnvgov/Content/Issues/2018_BC_TRNG_NV_Public_Records_Act.pdf

Public Records Act:
Section 74-102 – Idaho State Legislature

Exemptions:
Section 74-124 – Idaho State Legislature
74-124. Exemptions from disclosure — Confidentiality. (1) Notwithstanding any statute or rule of court to the contrary, nothing in this chapter nor chapter 10, title 59, Idaho Code, shall be construed to require disclosure of investigatory records compiled for law enforcement purposes by a law enforcement agency, but such exemption from disclosure applies only to the extent that the production of such records would:

(a) Interfere with enforcement proceedings;
(b) Deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication;
(c) Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;
(d) Disclose the identity of a confidential source and, in the case of a record compiled by a criminal law enforcement agency in the course of a criminal investigation, confidential information furnished only by the confidential source;
(e) Disclose investigative techniques and procedures;
(f) Endanger the life or physical safety of law enforcement personnel; or
(g) Disclose the identity of a reporting party maintained by any law enforcement entity or the department of health and welfare relating to the investigation of child abuse, neglect or abandonment ...

I.C.A.R. 32. Records of The Judicial Department - Examination and Copying - Exemption From and Limitations on Disclosure. | Supreme Court

The Idaho court admin rule I.C.A.R. 32i lays it out:

(2) Before a court may enter an order redacting or sealing records, it must also make one or more of the following determinations in writing:
(A) That the documents or materials contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person, or
(B) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that the court finds might be libelous, or
(C) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements, the dissemination or publication of which may compromise the financial security of, or could reasonably result in economic or financial loss or harm to a person having an interest in the documents or materials, or compromise the security of personnel, records or public property of or used by the judicial department, or
(D) That the documents or materials contain facts or statements that might threaten or endanger the life or safety of individuals, or
(E) That it is necessary to temporarily seal or redact the documents or materials to preserve the right to a fair trial, or
(F) That the documents contain personal data identifiers that should have been redacted pursuant to Idaho Rule of Electronic Filing and Service 15, Idaho Rule of Civil Procedure 2.6, or Idaho Rule of Family Law Procedure 218 in which case the court shall order that the documents be redacted in a manner consistent with the provisions of that rule.

 

[MassGuy]

He will absolutely never be a free man again, IMO.

* His DNA on the knife sheath, found beside a murdered girl.
* His car seen on the various cameras in the neighborhood of the murder and at the right time.
* The roommate seeing a masked man of his size and build leaving the murder scene.
* His cell phone tracking data showing him visiting the murder scene the next day.

If this is all the evidence against him, and its not, its enough for a conviction. I feel it likely he will ultimately accept a plea deal--life in prison for a guilty plea. IMO

Just wait for the victim’s DNA to be found in his car, or in the neighbor’s trash can he dumped garbage in. A done deal when testing is complete.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

He will absolutely never be a free man again, IMO.

* His DNA on the knife sheath, found beside a murdered girl.
* His car seen on the various cameras in the neighborhood of the murder and at the right time.
* The roommate seeing a masked man of his size and build leaving the murder scene.
* His cell phone tracking data showing him visiting the murder scene the next day.

If this is all the evidence against him, and its not, its enough for a conviction. I feel it likely he will ultimately accept a plea deal--life in prison for a guilty plea. IMO

There are many people who would not vote to convict with the information we have thus far. JMO based on what I've read here and on other sites. The hope is that there is much more evidence (and we know, logically, there is) and that it won't be based on just this.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Nope. I don't see that as plausible.

If what you conjecture is true, this is looking like a coverup, not a "I'm too afraid to call LE" scenario. But by whom & why?

I can accept ignorance of what has happened or is happening as an excuse for lack of a timely 911 dial but not knowledge of it.

JMHO

Just to clarify, I'm not in any way suggesting a cover up.

Just reaching for an explanation of why the police weren't called sooner - we know this is a fact that other people attended the house and other people entered the house because they were called upon by the surviving victims. They didn't know what had happened in the house, that's the whole point, why on earth would they think all their housemates had been slaughtered by a stranger with a knife? They lived in a party house with high traffic and plenty of drunken antics. JMO MOO

I don't want to speak out of turn but I thought we are all in agreement there was a delay in calling the police?

 

[MassGuy]

There are many people who would not vote to convict with the information we have thus far. JMO based on what I've read here and on other sites. The hope is that there is much more evidence (and we know, logically, there is) and that it won't be based on just this.

His DNA was found at the scene. In the early days, someone on here speculated that he must have left the sheath behind based on the type of knife they were looking for, this is what I said:

I don't think they've guesstimated the type of knife based on the wounds themselves. There are plenty of knife manufacturers other than K-Bar, and I can't imagine the wounds would be so unique as to allow differentiation between brands.

Someone speculated in the last thread that perhaps the sheath had been found, which I do think is the most likely explanation (if they haven't recovered the knife itself).

Ball game on that alone.

He was there. His DNA tells us that. Give a plausible explanation for how that could be, ignoring the other damning evidence.

A purported sexist creep, DNA, leaves the state, wears gloves to dispose of evidence in his neighbors trash, and spends hours cleaning his car.

In the words of legendary pet detective Ace Ventura, “aaaallllrighty then.”

 

[Boxer]

Cop on Idaho Murders Case Details Bloody Scene in Court Docs

Details redacted from the affidavit filed in Idaho were revealed in documents unsealed in Washington State.

www.insideedition.com

"The four University of Idaho students slain in November were attacked with such force that there was significant blood, spatter, and castoff throughout the Idaho home where the bodies were found, according to court records."

Blood-soaked Idaho crime scene 'major challenge' for investigators: expert

The crime scene where four Idaho college students were slaughtered will be grueling to process given the number of victims and amount of blood, an expert told Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

"From a blood evidence standpoint, this is a profoundly bloody scene," said Joseph Scott Morgan, distinguished scholar of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University. "It's going to be a very complicated case when you go through blood evidence, when you go to do DNA typing. It's a major challenge.""

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

"“There was blood everywhere. We have investigators who have been on the job for 20, even 30, years, and they say they have never seen anything like this,” a police source close to the probe told the outlet."

Spatter is aerosol blood. It lands erywhere but is not gushing blood. It is what happened in the Jennifer Dulos case. Her ex husband ambushed her in the garage with a bat.
He cleaned the visible blood up, but the impact created "spatter," which then as an aerosol thinly covered garage surfaces and the ceiling. The spatter was described as lighting up like Christmans with a forensic light.

 

[iamshadow21]

Spatter is aerosol blood. It lands erywhere but is not gushing blood. It is what happened in the Jennifer Dulos case. Her ex husband ambushed her in the garage with a bat.
He cleaned the visible blood up, but the impact created "spatter," which then as an aerosol thinly covered garage surfaces and the ceiling. The spatter was described as lighting up like Christmans with a forensic light.

I don't think this is strictly accurate. You're talking about one kind of spatter from impact, but there are many kinds, which can and do include 'gushing' injuries.

Blood spatter is categorized as impact spatter (created when a force is applied to a liquid blood source) or projection spatter (caused by arterial spurting, expirated spray or spatter cast off an object). The characteristics of blood spatter depend on the speed at which the blood leaves the body and the type of force applied to the blood source.

Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Principles


MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

His DNA was found at the scene. In the early days, someone on here speculated that he must have left the sheath behind based on the type of knife they were looking for, this is what I said:

I don't think they've guesstimated the type of knife based on the wounds themselves. There are plenty of knife manufacturers other than K-Bar, and I can't imagine the wounds would be so unique as to allow differentiation between brands.

Someone speculated in the last thread that perhaps the sheath had been found, which I do think is the most likely explanation (if they haven't recovered the knife itself).

Ball game on that alone.

I think the DNA is the strongest evidence they have, but DNA isn't without flaws, especially touch DNA.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Spatter is aerosol blood. It lands erywhere but is not gushing blood. It is what happened in the Jennifer Dulos case. Her ex husband ambushed her in the garage with a bat.
He cleaned the visible blood up, but the impact created "spatter," which then as an aerosol thinly covered garage surfaces and the ceiling. The spatter was described as lighting up like Christmans with a forensic light.

But I never said there wasn't blood spatter or mentioned gushing blood. I just said it was a bloody crime scene, which the links I posted support. We don't really know how bad it was because we haven't seen any photos of the actual crime scene. We just know what the cops described, which is that there was "blood everywhere" and that there was "significant blood, spatter, and castoff throughout the Idaho home" according to those links. The point was that it was a bloody crime scene inconsistent with an OD, IMO.

ETA: just looking at this link again and I wonder if you didn't see the comma after "blood"? It doesn't say "significant blood spatter." It says "significant blood, spatter," meaning there was blood AND blood spatter throughout, IMO.

 

[Bogbacal2]

<modsnip>

"Investigator Richard Bitonti, who is working for Anne Taylor, Mr Kohberger's lawyer, has subpoenaed Ms Funke to appear at the accused killer's hearing on June 28.

According to the affidavit, she allegedly witnessed a naked man run through a rear sliding door. She lived on the first-floor of the home and came face-to-face with the alleged killer."

Surviving roommate in university stabbings begs to not face 'killer' in court

Suspect Bryan Kohberger, 28, has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder and burglary after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death on November 13, 2022

www.mirror.co.uk

I saw that as well-about Bethany seeing a naked man, but I believe it came from a gossip site? Not sure, I read it on something called “The Mirror”. Someone did a podcast on it and questioned the source and think it isn’t true. With this case, nothing surprises me anymore! Per the affidavit-it would have to be the one the investigator did right? Because as far as we know it isn’t in the PCA unless I missed something!

 

[10ofRods]

He will absolutely never be a free man again, IMO.

* His DNA on the knife sheath, found beside a murdered girl.
* His car seen on the various cameras in the neighborhood of the murder and at the right time.
* The roommate seeing a masked man of his size and build leaving the murder scene.
* His cell phone tracking data showing him visiting the murder scene the next day.

If this is all the evidence against him, and its not, its enough for a conviction. I feel it likely he will ultimately accept a plea deal--life in prison for a guilty plea. IMO

I hope you are right. If the other roommate indeed saw a different person, then out goes the third item.

I personally would convict on the remaining information (and the fact that he has no alibi). However, I think I might be in a minority. I do think the GPS on his phone will help further. That visit on Sunday a few hours later is very hard to explain away, isn't it?

IMO.

 

[Bogbacal2]

Sorry! I posted a response to the article in “The Mirror” before I read anyone’s response ahead!

 

[MassGuy]

I saw that as well-about Bethany seeing a naked man, but I believe it came from a gossip site? Not sure, I read it on something called “The Mirror”. Someone did a podcast on it and questioned the source and think it isn’t true. With this case, nothing surprises me anymore! Per the affidavit-it would have to be the one the investigator did right? Because as far as we know it isn’t in the PCA unless I missed something!

I don’t believe he was naked, but wouldn’t be shocked if he wore a Tyvex suit or something.

 

[Boxer]

But I never said there wasn't blood spatter or mentioned gushing blood. I just said it was a bloody crime scene, which the links I posted support. We don't really know how bad it was because we haven't seen any photos of the actual crime scene. We just know what the cops described, which is that there was "blood everywhere" and that there was "significant blood, spatter, and castoff throughout the Idaho home" according to those links. The point was that it was a bloody crime scene inconsistent with an OD, IMO.

ETA: just looking at this link again and I wonder if you didn't see the comma after "blood"? It doesn't say "significant blood spatter." It says "significant blood, spatter," meaning there was blood AND blood spatter throughout, IMO.

True.

 

[whiterhino]

Sorry! I posted a response to the article in “The Mirror” before I read anyone’s response ahead!

That story has to be dog poo as we know if there was even a shred of truth there would be more MSM to compare to.

 

[U.N. Known]

Cop on Idaho Murders Case Details Bloody Scene in Court Docs

Details redacted from the affidavit filed in Idaho were revealed in documents unsealed in Washington State.

www.insideedition.com

"The four University of Idaho students slain in November were attacked with such force that there was significant blood, spatter, and castoff throughout the Idaho home where the bodies were found, according to court records."

Blood-soaked Idaho crime scene 'major challenge' for investigators: expert

The crime scene where four Idaho college students were slaughtered will be grueling to process given the number of victims and amount of blood, an expert told Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

"From a blood evidence standpoint, this is a profoundly bloody scene," said Joseph Scott Morgan, distinguished scholar of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University. "It's going to be a very complicated case when you go through blood evidence, when you go to do DNA typing. It's a major challenge.""

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

"“There was blood everywhere. We have investigators who have been on the job for 20, even 30, years, and they say they have never seen anything like this,” a police source close to the probe told the outlet."

My knowledge of blood spatter and exsanguination is limited to TV crime shows, so take this comment/question with that in mind.

I have a hard time reconciling reports of significant blood and a footprint so latent that it took two passes and two different chemicals to see. If the source is accurate and not prone to hyperbole, I can only surmise that the blood was contained in the two bedrooms and for the most part, not on the floors. I have always thought that the scene looked worse due to the length of time between the murders and LE's arrival.

 

[10ofRods]

Just reaching for an explanation of why the police weren't called sooner - we know this is a fact that other people attended the house and other people entered the house because they were called upon by the surviving victims. They didn't know what had happened in the house, that's the whole point, why on earth would they think all their housemates had been slaughtered by a stranger with a knife? They lived in a party house with high traffic and plenty of drunken antics. JMO MOO

I don't want to speak out of turn but I thought we are all in agreement there was a delay in calling the police?

The two young women didn't wake up early. It is hard to rectify the calling friends before 911 if, in fact, there was blood "everywhere." I assume that's a figure of speech. They had to use luminol to find the bloody footprints and then Amido black to enhance the proteins to gain that latent print outside DM's door. So there was no blood-strewn trail in that short distance between Xana's room and DM's. IMO.

Indeed, it's surprising that the footprint outside DM's door had to be enhanced with Amido black. Somehow, the murderer didn't get lots of blood on the sole of his foot (or feet - I keep wondering if they have both footprints from the luminol analysis).

We can add "shoe size" and "gait" to the analysis, since a shoe print is available, it will provide more information that must match BK.

IMO it will match him.

 

[whiterhino]

I don’t believe he was naked, but wouldn’t be shocked if he wore a Tyvex suit or something.

Personally, I'd want several layers between myself, my clothing and whatever outer covering I was wearing so as to not transfer any fibers, DNA etc onto the covering. I'd also want something to cover my head so that I don't leave hair behind and so my victims cannot grab my hair.

IMO if DM saw BK and he was wearing something like a Tyvex suit, I'd think (hope) she would remember.