4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[DizzyB]

I cannot imagine what liability U of I could have in this. The victims were all of legal age. They were murdered off campus, by a student of another university. U of I wouldn't have had any authority over him or the investigation.

If there is liability, it will be found. Settlements sometimes occur because it is far cheaper to settle and move on than drag this through the court system. There are attorney fees and other expenses that will be through the roof, all while keeping the university and its potential failings in the public eye.

Federal student loans are owed to the government, not the university, and actually, student loan debt is discharged upon death. I doubt these students took out private loans for their education (this part is IMO).

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/death

I am amazed at the amount of student loan debt that young adults have. And I see a lot of private loans because the cost of tuition and housing far outweighs what you can get in federal student loans. Granted, it was in state tuition. But college is really expensive. Kids want to get that full campus experience and worry about the debt later, I think. Btw the Fafsa is not fun. I know parents that assume they are getting nothing so they don’t bother to fill it out.

 

[jepop]

DBM repeat

 

[lowes123]

I meant to reply to your post, @arielilane, on the last thread, "before it got away from me", linking an MSM article about a book on the Idaho murders being co-written by a "prominent" author and investigative journalist (with an option for a docuseries).

It makes me cringe.

Simply because this is exactly what I think someone like BK would be over the moon about and feeds the "crime of the century" narrative, IMO.

It's their prerogative, of course, and I'm sure they and their publishers think there are good reasons for it, but sheeesshhhh, it's the modern day version of "bumping" documentation of these horrific crimes up to the next level for all time, right out of the gate (pre-trial). MOO

Another link about it in Forbes magazine :
James Patterson To Write Book About The University Of Idaho Murders—Just Months After Killings
"Best-selling novelist James Patterson and investigative journalist Vicky Ward will reportedly team up to write a nonfiction book about the murder of four University of Idaho students last November—which shocked the nation and led to a massive manhunt for the suspected killer—that will likely also be optioned for a docuseries."

I think you are right, Bryan is going to love the attention of the book.

 

[jepop]

I just had a thought about this grand jury. Perhaps the parents are being compelled to testify they knew their son had the knife and had been seen using it
Then that testimony can be used towards linking him with the sheath in idaho

None of that necessarily means there is connection enough to link him to DS but the grand jury is investigating a tip which came in.

Idaho will be trying to prove every link they have to BK and perhaps they hope the PA grand jury can assist or clarify

RBBM: That's a thought alright... but I wonder, wouldn't the parents be subpeonaed directly by prosecution in the Idaho trial of BK if they have that kind of potential evidence? Rather than going second hand through PA GJ? MOO Purely speculative post!

 

[jepop]

Clear explanation. I believe you are correct, that the Idaho State Lab obtained a John Doe DNA profile. Then to get an identity to go with the DNA, the ISL reached out to a lab that specializes in kinship DNA.

Somehow it has gotten construed that the Idaho State Lab wasn't able to extract a DNA profile and they were so desperate to obtain one that they sent the sample to a Texas company that specializes in forensic genealogy.

So if the Idaho lab couldn't extract enough DNA for a genetic profile, why send it to a lab that specializes in matching DNA to relatives? This lab matches DNA that already has a genetic profile.

If the sheath DNA was lacking, then I believe the sheath would have been sent to the FBI Lab in Quantico Virginia to try to get a genetic profile.... 2 Cents .........


View attachment 424735

FBI Laboratory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Agree totally @Cool Cats. As to how this confusion and conflation founds legs, IMO two words: Mr Blum. Totally MOO.

 

[NCWatcher]

I just had a thought about this grand jury. Perhaps the parents are being compelled to testify they knew their son had the knife and had been seen using it
Then that testimony can be used towards linking him with the sheath in idaho

None of that necessarily means there is connection enough to link him to DS but the grand jury is investigating a tip which came in.

Idaho will be trying to prove every link they have to BK and perhaps they hope the PA grand jury can assist or clarify

But possession of a knife in PA likely isn't a crime. I wouldn't think a PA GJ can merely assist another state in prosecuting a crime. There needs to be a PA crime or more specifically, a crime or suspicion of a crime to investigate in Monroe County, PA. Or are you suggesting the parents saw BK commit a crime with knife in PA?
JMO

 

[jepop]

Does any one have a link to the PA Probable Cause Affidavit please???

I can only find the Idaho one ….

Many thanks ….

Did you get a link? If not can be found here, only you'll have to wade through one of the Applications for Search Warrants to find it. I looked at the PA PC affidavit (for search warrants) some time ago. You'll notice that the Supplemetal Disclosure re dna test on the sheath is not included, however neither is any reference to dna testing on the sheath via the paternal sample taken from BK's parent's trash and flown back to IDaho State lab for testing and used to identify BK as depositor of the suspect sample on snap button. So in terms of PC for the PA warrants, in theory, those were granted on the basis of all other evidence in the PCA, sans any mention of the dna sample. Again then PC for these search warrants did not require the dna test result. PC was sufficent without it. MOO

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If there is liability, it will be found. Settlements sometimes occur because it is far cheaper to settle and move on than drag this through the court system. There are attorney fees and other expenses that will be through the roof, all while keeping the university and its potential failings in the public eye.

I am amazed at the amount of student loan debt that young adults have. And I see a lot of private loans because the cost of tuition and housing far outweighs what you can get in federal student loans. Granted, it was in state tuition. But college is really expensive. Kids want to get that full campus experience and worry about the debt later, I think. Btw the Fafsa is not fun. I know parents that assume they are getting nothing so they don’t bother to fill it out.

No way for us to know for sure, but IMO and IME, it's much more common to have federal loans.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not an attorney but I don't see any reason the University, the City, or given what we know now, local LE, would be seen as having responsibility for the deaths. But it's not clear that parents intend to sue for wrongful death (assuming they do sue.) Gray, the attorney representing the parents said the reason for the torts claim notice was "if something goes wrong, or was done improperly, then someone is held accountable for that." So it sounds like to me they intend to sue if they think things have been done wrong since the murders. I understand in theory-- if LE has messed up evidence collection, for example, and BK goes free, the parents will be upset. What I don't understand though is how they'd have grounds to sue for that reason. It's not as though families of crime victims can sue the DA everytime he/she loses a case. (Or maybe they can but no one does?)
JMO

I'd assume it would be some other tort. I've seen lawsuits filed against cities for lack of proper lighting inside areas within city limits (usually settled out of court). Police response time is another thing I've seen grieving families file over. 911 gaffes. Loss of paperwork/paper trail. Improper training of a forensic team. Ignorance of national standards in forensics.

For example, if chain of custody issues mean that crucial evidence is thrown out, many parents would want to sue and could sue. I suspect such a suit would survive attempts to get it dismissed immediately, as well, IMO.

Are we any closer to learning IF there is a GJ and what its task is? Is the Grand Jury that News Nation speaks of in Monroe County or in the county where DS died? I am reading contradictory comments and news stories around the web.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

If BK took the route from Conestoga Drive and Palouse River Drive he could have hooked onto Highway 95, via Main Street…

That intersection (where the Bank is) Is one of the last on Highway 95 before turning onto the main road to Pullman …. On to Highway 8 …

Even though BK allegedly left the scene in the other direction, it is quite possible he went that way, to get back to the main Highway …. That security video footage is maybe the last sighting in Moscow Idaho that night of Suspect Vehicle 1 (the white Elantra) ???

Edit to add …
Possibly after doing the initial legwork and tracking down CCTV in the area, the Police we’re onto the “white Elantra“ quite early???

IMO

RBBM: I think, per PCA, the last sighting of suspect vehicle 1 (SV1 for short) was heading south on Walenta drive after SV1 was recorded on Queen Street departing at speed at c 4.20am. I can't give you the page number right now but I feel like I know the vehicle sightings/recordings in the PCA like the back of my own hand at this point, and I'm 100% that's right. BK's elantra (or what will almost certainly be proven BARD, IMOO, as BK's elantra should this case proceed to trial) is recorded at c 5.25am at 1300 Johnson Road Pullman and then so forth about 5 more times heading north-eastish on N-E Stadium Way. In the PCA, BK's Elantra is described as being consistent with SV1. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, VERY early. Canvassing the close by houses for video was priority one for the investigative team that was not gathering evidence inside the house. This was for 2 reasons: 1) The perpetrator had to have gotten to the property by a vehicle or by walking and all video would be crucial for time and what they show and 2) a lot of people's videos is looping which means within only 4 days sometimes, the old videos is written over by new video.. so time was of the essence to get and copy that video from the hard drive before it was gone.

My thought was they knew it was a white compact car within a day or two...but it took another few days for the FBI expert to positively identify it as a white Elantra.

Police held that information close to the chest while they searched for potential Elantra owners for the element of surprise.

Eventually the released the info to the public to help

I agree. And I also think the LE messaging was very clear: if you have such a vehicle, please contact us. It was an obvious attempt to get every white Elantra owner in the region to communicate with police - as innocent people would do. As that happened, the pool of non-reporting Elantras began to stand out in stark contrast. There was even an element of strong asking, at the time, for more people to come forward then, the Chief stopped mentioning it (likely because they had other evidence that obviated the need for a blanket search; perhaps better video from some camera near 1122, or perhaps the match to Kohberger's dad's DNA had effectively narrowed the field).

I strongly suspect that they got way more video from local businesses of Kohberger's Elantra and likely had its plate number (we know they had it before he left for PA). The investigation, at any rate, shifted focus away from the Elantra - they knew whose Elantra it was.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

Apologies on quoting myself …

The above theory wouldn’t work if BK took Sand Road or similar back to Pullman?? And his car was first picked up at 1300 Johnson Avenue in Pullman, as per the affidavit ….….

But the above could have been the route BK took into Moscow that night from Pullman ??? (Just reversed)

IMO

Good point, no car video footage is mentioned per PCA after BK's car (IMOO) is recorded leaving Pullman and the sightings of SV1 on Indian Hill's Drive and Styner Road travelling towards Queen Street where it turns up a couple of minutes later (c 3.29am). So actually, as I think this through if SV1 was recorded passing that Upaqua (pardon spelling but that local Bank on Main Street warranted for footage?) on the way to crime scene then I guess that would have been included in PCA?... Imo that warrant is part of the early days canvassing of any footage LE could get their hands on and perhaps LE needed a Warrant because it is Bank footage. Just a guess. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

If there is liability, it will be found. Settlements sometimes occur because it is far cheaper to settle and move on than drag this through the court system. There are attorney fees and other expenses that will be through the roof, all while keeping the university and its potential failings in the public eye.

I am amazed at the amount of student loan debt that young adults have. And I see a lot of private loans because the cost of tuition and housing far outweighs what you can get in federal student loans. Granted, it was in state tuition. But college is really expensive. Kids want to get that full campus experience and worry about the debt later, I think. Btw the Fafsa is not fun. I know parents that assume they are getting nothing so they don’t bother to fill it out.

Kohberger would not have yet had in-state tuition, IMO. He would have fallen plainly in the category of first year grad student from OOS, and would have wanted to comply with WSU's rules about obtaining in-state status for his second year. All the doctoral program students, including first year, got a 50% tuition break IIRC.

I assume Kohberger had loans to cover that $7000 or so of tuition and his TA-ship would likely have covered rent (maybe not quite). At any rate, finding out he was being fired from the TA ship must have been quite a blow - but he'd already created something really big to worry about instead. I always find that interesting in a life history (whether of a murderer or otherwise). Kohberger leaves home for the first time; establishes an independent existence in Pullman; has acquaintance and colleagues, whom he proceeds to alienate - and may even have stalked/cold prowled; upsets his undergrad students; causes one grad student to leave class in a huff; is avoided by a neighbor for being a bit too intense. All of this occurs before the murders, I believe. Things are stressful, not going well. He cracks right around the time his professor is beginning the process of discipline/firing. He probably knows he cannot comply/get back in favor. Altercations with the professor happen (yikes).

Anyway, lots of stressors, so as some people do, he deals himself a major stressor which wipes all the others off the mental books.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Agree totally @Cool Cats. As to how this confusion and conflation founds legs, IMO two words: Mr Blum. Totally MOO.

I agree as well. ISL ran the DNA, which comes out looking like a long chart, similar to this but longer:



Then they sent those letters (in a particular format) to places like Othram, who have their own algorithms for matching to what's in their own databases.

IMO. The full genome is enormous and is usually in a digital file, which is sent for further study. People using 23andme can get their full genome profile in a fairly large data file, to send elsewhere.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Reviewing the Financial warrants

There were two different Umpqua warrants

Umpqua 11/19 served 11/21-22 returned to LE 11/23 financial records for 4 victims plus 3

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Umpqua%20Bank.pdf

Umpqua 11/19 served 11/21-22 returned to LE 11/23 but this one is for Exterior camera footage on November 12 9pm to November 13 12pm. Umpqua on Washington Street, Moscow.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Umpqua%20Bank.pdf

I looked up the address on Washington Street, 1 mile from King road.
Maybe looking at the ATM outside? or?

MOO

My guess is the exterior camera footage was to see what vehicles had driven by on Washington St. during the time frame?

Washington St. (Highway 95 N) is a major one-way street going north through downtown Moscow; Jackson St. (Highway 95 S) is the other major one-way street through downtown going south.

They each are one block off Main St. to bypass Main St itself in our CBD zone, ease traffic congestion, maintain walkability, etc for Main St, etc.

MOO, as always.

ETA: “Highway 95” designation; in town, we refer to them by their street names (Washington & Jackson Streets).

 

[Cindizzi]

[…]

On June 27, Kohberger, his defense and the prosecution will be present for a motion hearing to compel the prosecution to hand over pieces of evidence the defense believes they are withholding. Defense attorneys said in their motion to compel discovery that they believe there is exculpatory evidence, meaning evidence that could absolve Kohberger of guilt, in his car, his parents' home and other unspecified reports and documents. The prosecution responded, claiming they have given the defense all the evidence they have.

Prosecutors have not said if they will be seeking the death penalty against Kohberger, but they have 60 days from his plea entry to file. If that happens, Kohberger's attorneys would have to prepare a death defense and the state must find a jury that would be able to oversee a death penalty case, which could push his trial further out than Oct. 2.

This also requires more work from the prosecution, who would have to prove "aggravating circumstances" in a death penalty case, which are circumstances that increase the heinousness or seriousness of a crime.

[…]

What's next for Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of murdering 4 Idaho students?

 

[al66pine]

Tort Action Notice. Atty Gray: "If Something Goes Wrong"

@NCWatcher Thanks for post* and several others you have made on Gray's comment: "if something goes wrong, or was done improperly, then someone is held accountable for that."

I'm interpreting the comment this way (as I think you & some are, at least as one possibility):

"If something goes wrong" = If BK is not convicted of M-1 of the 2 dau's
..................................or if BK does not receive DP or LWOP.

And

something "was done improperly" = e.g., LE's conduct in evd collection. MPD? ISP?
As a result, MM & KG died.

Then
"someone is held accountable for that." = $$$ to parents.

In his first phrase, Gray did NOT use PAST tense, by saying something HAD gone wrong. Despite using present tense, seems to refer to a possible FUTURE event like a trial.


In his "If something goes wrong" phrase, what, other than trial, could Gray have referred to?

Scratching my head on this. imo moo jmo

{eta: minor clarifications}
__________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Tort Action Notice. Atty Gray: "If Something Goes Wrong"

@NCWatcher Thanks for post* and several others you have made on Gray's comment: "if something goes wrong, or was done improperly, then someone is held accountable for that."

I'm interpreting the comment this way (as I think you & some are, at least as one possibility):

"If something goes wrong" = If BK is not convicted of M-1 of the 2 dau's
..................................or if BK does not receive DP or LWOP.

And

something "was done improperly" = e.g., LE's conduct in evd collection. MPD? ISP?
As a result, MM & KG died.

Then
"someone is held accountable for that." = $$$ to parents.

In his first phrase, Gray did NOT use PAST tense, by saying something HAD gone wrong. Despite using present tense, seems to refer to a possible FUTURE event like a trial.


In his "If something goes wrong" phrase, what, other than trial, could Gray have referred to?

Scratching my head on this. imo moo jmo

{eta: minor clarifications}
__________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

Jumping off this … are tort claim notice filings required before suing individuals/businesses or is it just when suing governmental entities? And what would be the time limit on filing those types of civil claims?

I’m thinking back to the early speculation here about potential malfunctioning door/window locks, insufficient exterior lighting, etc.

Prior to being gifted to UI, the house & property were privately owned with a local property management company acting as landlord.

Just wondering & curious, all MOO musings.

 

[Balthazar]

I think you are right, Bryan is going to love the attention of the book.

I believe Howard Blum is also writing a book about this case:

Bestselling author writing book on University of Idaho student murders

A bestselling author of crime stories and other nonfiction works is working on a book about the stabbing deaths last fall of four students at the University of

komonews.com

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Tort Action Notice. Atty Gray: "If Something Goes Wrong"

@NCWatcher Thanks for post* and several others you have made on Gray's comment: "if something goes wrong, or was done improperly, then someone is held accountable for that."

I'm interpreting the comment this way (as I think you & some are, at least as one possibility):

"If something goes wrong" = If BK is not convicted of M-1 of the 2 dau's
..................................or if BK does not receive DP or LWOP.

And

something "was done improperly" = e.g., LE's conduct in evd collection. MPD? ISP?
As a result, MM & KG died.

Then
"someone is held accountable for that." = $$$ to parents.

In his first phrase, Gray did NOT use PAST tense, by saying something HAD gone wrong. Despite using present tense, seems to refer to a possible FUTURE event like a trial.


In his "If something goes wrong" phrase, what, other than trial, could Gray have referred to?

Scratching my head on this. imo moo jmo

{eta: minor clarifications}
__________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

Yeah, editing this to say IDK. Apparently they only have six months to file a claim, but from what date? When the crimes occurred or when the damage occurred? Generally speaking, the clock starts ticking at knew or should have known of damage, and that raises other questions.

Per the ID Tort Claims Act:
6-911. Limitation of actions. Every claim against a governmental entity permitted under the provisions of this act or against an employee of a governmental entity shall be forever barred, unless an action is begun within two (2) years after the date the claim arose or reasonably should have been discovered, whichever is later.

So again, if nothing has been discovered, why act now? Are they just basing off the date of the deaths?

I'm not digging in on research. this is just for those who care. I'm not going to give these claims too much energy because IMO the reasons for them are pretty evident. IMO and ICBW.

in case anyone is interested:

Chapter 9 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov