4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[Twistinginthewind]

Thank you for this information. In your opinion, would you say that some people who are fairly antisocial or 'outsider' become desirable of being institutionalised if their life plan hasn't worked out? A form of 'death by cop' sort of exit plan but still alive? I wonder if maybe they're particularly angry about something or have an obsessive desire to perpetrate something, they may set aside usual inhibitions and 'just do it', possibly having been thwarted in their life goals?

I'm asking this as my personal opinion is that BK could have felt very thwarted in many aspects, rightly or wrongly. I have personally observed people throw in the towel and give up trying to be a decent human being, albeit in far less horrific ways, and harm others by making that decision. Not like this of course but the gist of it is they no longer value or have hope for their own life so decide to cross the threshold to enacting a sadistic rage that an average person would call antisocial, criminal, immoral, and beyond any comprehension. JMO MOO

Good points, @Observe_dont_Absorb. I agree it's possible BK "ultimately didn't mind" going into the system / a version of "death by cop" if he got caught, and he did.

It has been discussed as a possibility quite a bit back on earlier threads, as I posted about, but maybe not as eloquently or thoroughly on underling reasons as you have.

He seems from outward appearances to be okay with being incarcerated (e.g., not on any medication for anxiety or mental health stability AFAIK, staying quiet in his cell watching TV and being fed vegan cuisine which is important dietarily to him, per MSM news articles thus far).

And early after his arrest, there was a report in MSM that he was heard (unverified source) reassuring himself out loud in jail saying to himself "It's okay, you're okay, you can do this" or something along those lines.

Which if true, indicated to me he was maybe temporarily stressed by the incarceration situation and needed to soothe himself verbally, but he hasn't asked for any medical attention to help him cope, AFAIK, although it may be happening and not made public.

He seems overall calm, cool, and collected in his appearances on the way into and in court since his arrest, IMO.

When coupled with him telling his PA PD after his arrest "he believes he will be exonerated" which seems a pretty low key form of denying wrondoing, and waiving his right to a speedy PH, it seems like he is adjusting to being in jail or realizes he is in it for the long haul and doesn't seem to mind all that much.

This is just anecdotal and speculation that in comparison to other accused murder suspects who may go kicking and screaming and fight for bail or a speedy PH and make more declarative statements about their innocence, including entering a plea (whereas he stood silent) he seems pretty complacent about being in custody, for now anyway...

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMHO, BK did it and did it alone. How did his (and his alone) DNA get on the knife sheath if it wasn't him?

Have to invent some strange scenario where BK drove but the true murderer was in the car and got BK's DNA and not his on the sheath. This is not believable to a jury.

I keep wondering about the witness overhearing 'I'm here to help' and whether that implies two people working together.

I guess LE have their forensics nailed and aren't looking for anyone else.

Also, psychologically, it's considered rare and unusual for two or more people to perpetrate such an extreme crime together as so it's rare for two like minded persons to meet one another, share their secret thoughts, and get along well enough together to collaborate and then conduct the whole thing in solid collusion.

Although there are clear examples where this has happened and I can think of at least three serial murderer couples in the UK (where I live), horribly, where they were working together and not gangsters or hit men.

 

[mmeynstyn]

The Mad Greek....

I have no idea how long the manager has been managing there but is it possible that BK had in fact not been there in the fall of 2022.... but had been, when he may have been scoping out his prospective grad school town? Maybe much earlier than anyone considered. Maybe at a time other employees worked there and a different manager managed...

Maybe he didn't even eat there. Scoped it out. Sniff test, as it were... chatted outside with an employee... who wouldn't give him her home address...

Jmo

I always wondered if BK took a trip to "check out" the WSU campus....maybe even in 2021. Looks like admission applications for Fall Semester are due the January prior (see link). Maybe (just speculating) that is why warrants date back to January 2022. So, JMO - possibly he made a trip west in late 2021 to check out the area and came across one of more of the victims.

Doctor of Philosophy in Criminal Justice and Criminology | The Graduate School | Washington State University

gradschool.wsu.edu

 

[Sjöberg]

But I did find that a few weeks before the murders that BK was hanging out at University of Idaho

A law enforcement source recently told media that they believe Kohberger spent some time on the University of Idaho campus.
]‘Staring’ Bryan Kohberger was seen multiple times on University of Idaho campus: students

This news article reminded me of this snippet I posted ages ago:

Two weeks before, MPD Press Log 10/30/2022:
22-M09404 Other Law Enforcement Calls
Incident Address: UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 16:33
Cad Comments: Request to speak with officer about another student who made Rp uncomfortable. Officer contacted. No report.

 

[Sundog]

I always wondered if BK took a trip to "check out" the WSU campus....maybe even in 2021. Looks like admission applications for Fall Semester are due the January prior (see link). Maybe (just speculating) that is why warrants date back to January 2022. So, JMO - possibly he made a trip west in late 2021 to check out the area and came across one of more of the victims.

Doctor of Philosophy in Criminal Justice and Criminology | The Graduate School | Washington State University

gradschool.wsu.edu

My own opinion at this point is that once BK knew that he was accepted into the doctoral program at WSU (spring of 2022), then he went online and started checking out the area and that is when he likely came across one or more of the victims online on social media sites.

Then, when he arrived in Pullman, he continued to follow the victim(s) but now both online on social media AND by watching them at King Road, Grub Hub, etc.

 

[schooling]

When coupled with him telling his PA PD after his arrest "he believes he will be exonerated" which seems a pretty low key form of denying wrondoing, and waiving his right to a speedy PH, it seems like he is adjusting to being in jail or realizes he is in it for the long haul and doesn't seem to mind all that much.

<snipped and emphasized for focus by me>

He hadn't seen the PCA at this point and the 2 months of the media's potrayal of LE's bumbling the case led him into a state of complacency and safety.

There are no reported sightings of BK wearing gloves or being particularly cautious in Pullman after the murders. We have multiple accounts from colleagues and students at the criminology school. None of them mention any odd behaviors that might be related to keeping your DNA away from LE.

He likely thought that turning off his cellular was enough. That the roads he cased didn't have an overwhelming presence of cameras. That the misidentification of the car's year was keeping him off LEs radar. And probably assumed that the sheath wasn't traceable back to him.

IMO the back to back stops in Indiana spooked him into modifying his behaviors. Being more cautious about his trash and the things he touched.

But I still believe that he was confident enough to think LE didn't have enough on him. And I don't buy that the question he supposedly asked (which was contradicted by his lawyer I believe) "was anyone else arrested?" was more about trying to learn what LE knew....and not a sign of an accomplice or BK trying to play 4D chess with investigators.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I keep wondering about the witness overhearing 'I'm here to help' and whether that implies two people working together.

I guess LE have their forensics nailed and aren't looking for anyone else.

Also, psychologically, it's considered rare and unusual for two or more people to perpetrate such an extreme crime together as so it's rare for two like minded persons to meet one another, share their secret thoughts, and get along well enough together to collaborate and then conduct the whole thing in solid collusion.

Although there are clear examples where this has happened and I can think of at least three serial murderer couples in the UK (where I live), horribly, where they were working together and not gangsters or hit men.

(RBBM): That's one possibility. IMO, it's not obvious what the context was or what they could have meant, as stated by LE in the PCA, and it was not verbatim but "something to the effect of".

It says (BBM):

"D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D,M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."

IMO, this sounds like after DM heard what she thought was crying coming from Xana's room and opened her door a second time, she then heard 1 male voice say to 1 person who they think needs help, that they are going to help them.

As awful as this possibility is to consider, IMO it would fit with 1 person, the killer, saying this to 1 of the victims, who was gravely injured, but still alive (Xana?), prior to delivering the killing blow(s), as in, I'm going to help end your suffering by killing you.

This was speculated as another possibility by an OP early on, and I can't find their post, so paraphrasing here, and just saying I've thought it was the most likely explanation.

No telling, JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

Not trying to speak for OP, but when they say a crime committed before BK moved to the area ( Idaho ), I think they are talking about Dateline showing the bodycam footage of a woman who called LE about her car being rifled through and her suitcase on the steet.

I believe it happened in March and I agree that it’s quite a stretch to link BK to it.

I do believe Dateline has reliable sources and are responsible in their reporting, but including that story had me scratching my head.

jmo

Many stalkers follow a predictable pattern of behavior. They will typically begin by messing with the victim's vehicle - just like this suitcase incident, and then escalate to going inside of their home and moving stuff around, taking items, etc. So when I heard about this suitcase incident, I thought to myself, it is not unusual for incoming PhD students to make multiple campus visits prior to starting their PhD program - in fact they are pretty much required to do that and graduate students are reimbursed for travel expenses (flights, hotel, food) and the visit is usually at least 2 days. But, WHEN would BK have time to visit WSU considering he was still a master's student at DeSales? Spring Break came to mind. So I pulled up the DeSales calendar for 2022 and sure enough, the timing of the suitcase incident coincided exactly with DeSales' Spring Break. Coincidence? Somehow, I don't think so.

IMO, Dateline including this incident makes sense from the timing and from the standpoint of it being the kind of behavior a stalker would do. BK is not charged in this suitcase incident, so I believe it is outside the scope of the gag order and therefore something LE sources in Idaho COULD talk to Dateline reporters about.

 

[schooling]

Just to add...since this is the DailyMail I'm assuming that this is OK to post here.

Idaho suspect stalked victims for WEEKS and wore GLOVES

The man accused of the horrific slayings of four University of Idaho students was allegedly stalking the students in the weeks leading up to the murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is the reporting I referred to a day or two ago to demonstrate that LE in PA were already leaking information to people about the PA surveillance AND pieces of the Idaho case (the cell tower info) so there's no reason to suspect that they weren't Dateline's source. This text message was leaked in a Facebook Group right after BK was arrested and nothing was known about gloves, local PD surveillance or any of the cellular information from the PCA.

I think if BK had been conducting himself in Pullman....like he was in PA...we would have likely heard about it by now.

IMO the two stops in Indiana were the catalyst for the behavior change. How could he have not thought that LE was on to him and following him at that point?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

ADMIN NOTE

This post lands at random.

Okay folks, bleach was speculation so please move on from that discussion.

As for what unsavory types might read here and get hints about, I'm sure there are a zillion other things they would zero in on. We can't control the universe, and we've never yet heard a perp exclaim "I did it because I read it on Websleuths"

Right? I've said to myself more than once recently that if the perps had just read some threads in here first they might not have made it so easy to nail them. Certainly these idiots spring to mind for starters, Brian Walshe, Steve Capaldi, Letecia Stauch to name a few, they certainly didn't come here for tips

 

[Balthazar]

I always wondered if BK took a trip to "check out" the WSU campus....maybe even in 2021. Looks like admission applications for Fall Semester are due the January prior (see link). Maybe (just speculating) that is why warrants date back to January 2022. So, JMO - possibly he made a trip west in late 2021 to check out the area and came across one of more of the victims.

Doctor of Philosophy in Criminal Justice and Criminology | The Graduate School | Washington State University

gradschool.wsu.edu

Once accepted into the PhD program, BK, would have been REQUIRED to make graduate student visits to WSU. The school pays for travel, hotel and food for these visits.

 

[10ofRods]

Not trying to speak for OP, but when they say a crime committed before BK moved to the area ( Idaho ), I think they are talking about Dateline showing the bodycam footage of a woman who called LE about her car being rifled through and her suitcase on the steet.

I believe it happened in March and I agree that it’s quite a stretch to link BK to it.

I do believe Dateline has reliable sources and are responsible in their reporting, but including that story had me scratching my head.

jmo

And a bit of a stretch to call a panty incident near a university campus, wherein no criminal charges were ever filed (nor was it more than just an incident report, to my knowledge) a "crime." But okay, I suppose it was, if the car was broken into. I don't remember if we even have details. Party-adjacent behavior is what I'd call it. Spring Break behavior.

So I think Dateline stretched (but may have done so on the view that BK was not the only creeper in the neighborhood; knowing of course that many viewers would decide BK was implicated). But it's a stretch to say that the panty/suitcase incident was a "crime."

I do see why any investigator would at least take note of the incident. There were a lot of things about that neighborhood that Dateline did leave out of the story, IMO. And some things about the case that would have been more fair to BK could have been included. OTOH, there isn't a lot outside the gag order for Dateline to dig up in Idaho.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Once accepted into the PhD program, BK, would have been REQUIRED to make graduate student visits to WSU. The school pays for travel, hotel and food for these visits.

I've never heard of this custom. That's pretty amazing. Do we have a source for it? Is this just WSU or is it common these days? I ask, because people do get into more than one grad school. Is this all prior to actual registration? What's the purpose?

 

[schooling]

Once accepted into the PhD program, BK, would have been REQUIRED to make graduate student visits to WSU. The school pays for travel, hotel and food for these visits.

Newsweek cites a CARFAX of BKs car which a lot of news orgs used

Bryan Kohberger switched license plates after Idaho murders

On December 30, Kohberger was arrested in Pennsylvania in connection with the four University of Idaho murders.

www.newsweek.com

Nicole Hernandez a reporter for Idaho's KREM news shared screenshots of the purported here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610470832937275393

A lot of people kind of overlooked what stuck out to me the most in these Carfax reports. Look at the mileage. 15,000 mile increase over the course of 7 months while the car was still in PA. If the car was serviced in PA, where that mileage was recorded, IMO that means it's not inclusive of the final trip Kohlberger took to move to Moscow.

Prior to that BK was averaging just 8k+ miles a year in totality (12k over the last year). So he doubled the amount of mileage he typically used in a year...in just 7 months. A little over half the time.

When you consider the roundtrip back and forth from BK's home to Moscow Idaho is 5,000 miles or so. IMO BK had made that drive to Moscow at least once before his official move. And if you do the math of his typical driving patterns in that car (600 to 1000 miles a months) there's actually room for TWO trips back and fourth to Moscow over those 7 months.

IMO this is a much better explanation for some of LE's post "BK on the Radar" warrants going back to the beginning of the year. IMO they wanted to know what he was up to in his trips out to Pullman.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

Once accepted into the PhD program, BK, would have been REQUIRED to make graduate student visits to WSU. The school pays for travel, hotel and food for these visits.

Are you referring specifically to BK's program at WSU, or making a comment more generally? When I started my PhD program in California, I was not required to make a visit in advance. And at the university where I am now employed, we have no such requirement either.

Edited to add: Also, when my spouse was admitted to his doctoral program, he did not visit in advance, either, no requirement to do so.

 

[NCWatcher]

Once accepted into the PhD program, BK, would have been REQUIRED to make graduate student visits to WSU. The school pays for travel, hotel and food for these visits.

I've never heard of that especially the part about the school paying. Some programs require interviews (in person pre-COVID) before admission but that's on the student's dime.
JMO

 

[Balthazar]

I've never heard of this custom. That's pretty amazing. Do we have a source for it? Is this just WSU or is it common these days? I ask, because people do get into more than one grad school. Is this all prior to actual registration? What's the purpose?

I've never NOT heard of this being done! This was common when my husband and I were in grad school - for both the Masters and the PhD programs we attended (4 completely separate programs at different schools both private and public - ALL of them did this.)

Do Colleges Pay for Grad School Interviews or Visits?

<p>I know one of my daughter’s friends, who had a high GPA from a prestigious undergrad chem program got flown across the country and “wined and dined” by numerous PhD programs. So it’s quite possible.</p>

talk.collegeconfidential.com

I wonder if the difference is the type of graduate degree you were pursuing? My husband and I are both hard science degrees and business degrees.

 

[al66pine]

Dateline et al.

...
Dateline ... Just because they reported something doesn't make it a confirmed fact, IMO. They could be right. MOO.

snipped for focus @BeginnerSleuther
Thanks for the reminder on this.

A person being interviewed for TV, radio, podcast, whatever media is
1. NOT speaking under oath
and
2. NOT subject to cross examination,
as he/she would be, if in COURT and on the WITNESS stand.
Not jmo.

And ^that's^ just for starters re credibility when interviewee is identified by name and shown on camera.

When media people interview people and report their stmts as coming from (anonymous) "source" there are more issues.

 

[Balthazar]

Are you referring specifically to BK's program at WSU, or making a comment more generally? When I started my PhD program in California, I was not required to make a visit in advance. And at the university where I am now employed, we have no such requirement either.

Edited to add: Also, when my spouse was admitted to his doctoral program, he did not visit in advance, either, no requirement to do so.

What areas are your graduate degrees in? For science or business type degrees, this is, as far as I am aware, the norm.

 

[10ofRods]

And I think he was mostly living at his parents house up until the phd move? Do we know if and for how long had he lived on his own before? Might be hard to actually pull off a murder, especially stuff like stabbing, while living with mum, dad and sister(s) etc?

If there are periods when he lived alone, I'd look into these periods for possible previous assaults or murders.

I've looked and can't find any evidence of BK living outside his parental home in Albrightsville, before moving to WSU. The records I search are property and rental records compiled by an online database (there's a fee). It's never been reported that he lived other than in his parents' home, so I"m going with "this was his first time away from home."

He's such a night owl (and was known for being a night time runner back in PA), that I wonder if this behavior was prompted in part by wanting to have a life of his own, outside the parental house, in the middle of the night. Not much to do in the middle of the night. At any rate, he may well have had a habit of going out on his own in the night and maybe he used running as a ruse (and running is not going to exclude occasional prowling or peeping).

I agree it would be very hard to pull off a murder and so far, I'm not convinced he did. But I do think he had a past of what we can call "antisocial" (improper, borderline illegal, low misdemeanor level) behavior. The drug use was of course not a misdemeanor level thing. I'm with @Helechawagirl in thinking the Idaho murders were his first. If things had gone the way he planned, he'd still be in grad school, getting ready for his second year. He'd be in the "cool down" phase of post-criminality. He would have been really paranoid at first, but by the fall, he'd have begun to think he was uncatchable and would likely start planning another crime/murders. It might have taken him 2-3 years to plan the next one, not unheard of. I wonder if he planned to remain over the summer in Pullman.

On a slightly different topic, any thoughts on why BK's mail is now being vetted/sorted by his attorney? Does that mean anything the attorney approves gets to him - or does that just mean that the attorney sees the mail first and forwards whatever BK and she have decided is forwardable and the jail still does its due diligence? Anyone seen this in a prior case?

IMO