DC/VA - Light plane crashes after chase by jet fighters in Washington area, 4 June 2023

[Gardenista]

Wait, these pictures are from a news helicopter?
Closeups of the wreckage ?

Highly insensitive.

From what I gather the response team isn't even there on the ground yet.

Such a horrible tragedy....

They don't look close up to me, I can't make out anything on them.

 

[Charlot123]

They don't look close up to me, I can't make out anything on them.

I hope so. Still, the whole post, triumphantly announcing, “Images you only see on NBC Washington” is ugly; press helicopter interfering with the police search in order to be the first to post these photos is unethical and despicable. Their absolute disregard about the feelings of the victims’ relatives is horrifying.

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665639582250024962

 

[iamshadow21]

I hope so. Still, the whole post, triumphantly announcing, “Images you only see on NBC Washington” is ugly; press helicopter interfering with the police search in order to be the first to post these photos is unethical and despicable. Their absolute disregard about the feelings of the victims’ relatives is horrifying.

Agreed. Four people died, one of whom was a two year old. There's nothing that should be bragged about here.

I mean, news outlets are going to do this, but they can frame it in a way that doesn't sound so thrilled about it. It costs nothing to acknowledge the tragedy of the situation.

MOO

 

[JerseyGirl]

No survivors found after plane that flew over DC, led to fighter jets scramble crashes in Virginia

A wayward and unresponsive business plane that flew over the nation’s capital Sunday afternoon caused the military to scramble a fighter jet before the plane crashed in Virginia.

apnews.com

The plane that crashed was registered to Encore Motors of Melbourne Inc, which is based in Florida. John Rumpel, who runs the company, told The New York Times that his daughter, 2-year-old granddaughter, her nanny and the pilot were aboard the plane. They were returning to their home in East Hampton, on Long Island, after visiting his house in North Carolina, he said.

Rumpel, a pilot, told the newspaper he didn’t have much information from authorities but suggested the plane could have lost pressurization.

“It descended at 20,000 feet a minute, and nobody could survive a crash from that speed,” Rumpel told the newspaper.

The episode brought back memories of the 1999 crash of a Learjet that lost cabin pressure and flew aimlessly across the country with professional golfer Payne Stewart aboard. The jet crashed in a South Dakota pasture and six people died.

 

[Gemmie]

The Republican donor and NRA executive whose daughter and granddaughter were killed in a 'sonic boom' private jet crash Sunday, lost another daughter in a separate tragedy nearly 30 years ago.

John and Barbara Rumpel lost their 19-year-old daughter, Victoria, in a tragic 1994 scuba diving accident. She is buried at Saint Charles Cemetery in East Farmingdale, New York.

Few details are public about the scuba incident, one that was thrust back into the spotlight as the Rumpels' name became public again Sunday. The family lost another daughter, a granddaughter and nanny when their plane crashed in Virginia after flying over Washington, DC, causing fighter jets to scramble.

NRA exec family in jet crash lost another daughter in earlier tragedy

John and Barbara Rumpel, whose daughter and granddaughter were killed in a private jet crash on Sunday afternoon in Washington DC, lost another daughter, Victoria, in a 1994 scuba accident.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sundog]

The Republican donor and NRA executive whose daughter and granddaughter were killed in a 'sonic boom' private jet crash Sunday, lost another daughter in a separate tragedy nearly 30 years ago.

John and Barbara Rumpel lost their 19-year-old daughter, Victoria, in a tragic 1994 scuba diving accident. She is buried at Saint Charles Cemetery in East Farmingdale, New York.

Few details are public about the scuba incident, one that was thrust back into the spotlight as the Rumpels' name became public again Sunday. The family lost another daughter, a granddaughter and nanny when their plane crashed in Virginia after flying over Washington, DC, causing fighter jets to scramble.

View attachment 426799

NRA exec family in jet crash lost another daughter in earlier tragedy

John and Barbara Rumpel, whose daughter and granddaughter were killed in a private jet crash on Sunday afternoon in Washington DC, lost another daughter, Victoria, in a 1994 scuba accident.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How very tragic, that two daughters have been lost to accidents, along with the grandaughter. Prayers for the families.

 

[Gemmie]

How very tragic, that two daughters have been lost to accidents, along with the grandaughter. Prayers for the families.

Yes. It's got to drum up some unpleasant memories. It's hard when a parent loses a child. It's all so sad.

 

[dotr]

 

[Erutan]

My initial thought when I heard about this plane was that the pilot had a medical emergency .

The loss of cabin pressure would've been fatal as well, though.
Hopefully they'll investigate this thoroughly to prevent this tragedy from happening again.

There was a case where a passenger on an asian airlines opened the door, but that wouldn't cause depressurization, iirc ?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/26/asia/south-korea-plane-door-opens-midair-intl-hnk/index.html

"Midair" makes it sound like the plane was thousands of feet up, but no --it was opened as the plane came in for a landing.
Asiana Airlines told CNN: “The airplane is automatically set to adjust the pressure of the cabin according to the altitude of the aircraft. When the aircraft is high up in the air, it is impossible to open the door but when the altitude is low and close to landing, the door can be opened.”

Flying is still safer than driving, imo -- but when there's trouble it can quickly turn fatal !
Imo.



Rest in gentle peace to the deceased, and my utmost condolences to the bereaved families.

How heartbreaking that the Rumple's have already endured the loss of their daughter in 1994.

 

[Erutan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665540391263772674

From the link, there is an interesting comment from a Uw 5 hrs ago.

How did the pilot end up in restricted airspace ?
Again I'm wondering about a medical emergency.

The fighters that were scrambled did not shoot it down even though it passed over the capitol -- but were there to guide/assist.
At least it appears that way ?
Sad for them to have to watch this unfold, helpless to do anything.
M00.

 

[Gardenista]

From the link, there is an interesting comment from a Uw 5 hrs ago.

How did the pilot end up in restricted airspace ?
Again I'm wondering about a medical emergency.

The fighters that were scrambled did not shoot it down even though it passed over the capitol -- but were there to guide/assist.
At least it appears that way ?
Sad for them to have to watch this unfold, helpless to do anything.
M00.

Take this with a grain of salt because I learned the following info via my pilot training on Twitter

He was not in restricted airspace since he was at 34K feet and the no fly zone only goes to 18K feet. The concern was he did not respond to radio transmissions so they didn't know what he was up to.

I did find this which seems to give the 18K feet info

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/restricted-airspace-0#:~:text=The%20Washington%20D.C.%20Metropolitan%20Area,%2DRestricted%20Zone%20(FRZ).

 

[JerseyGirl]

Cessna with Trump donor's 'daughter' onboard tumbled 28,000ft a MINUTE

The jet was carrying Adina Azarian, her two-year-old daughter Aria, their nanny and the pilot, who has not yet been named. It took off at 1.13pm from Elizabethton Airport in Tennessee.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The jet was carrying Adina Azarian, her two-year-old daughter Aria, their nanny and the pilot, who has not yet been named. It took off at 1.13pm from Elizabethton Airport in Tennessee and was scheduled to land at MacArthur Airport in Islip, on Long Island.

Instead, at 2.45pm, the plane approached MacArthur but then turned around and flew south again, alerting DC officials.

No one on board answered calls from the ground, prompting the need for two F-16 fighter jets from Joint Base Andrews to rush to its side to investigate. They flew with such velocity that a sonic boom was heard over parts of DC and Virginia.

Once in the air, the F-16 pilots reported seeing the Cessna pilot slumped over in the cockpit. Within moments, the Cessna crashed, tumbling a terrifying 2,800ft-a-minute into St Mary's Wilderness, around 175 miles southwest of Washington DC.

While the tragedy remains under investigation, aviation experts tell DailyMail.com it was likely down to cabin pressure failure which will have caused the pilot - and everyone else - to pass out from a lack of oxygen.

When the plane approached Long Island, rather than landing it diverted back to the south.

Kyle Bailey, a former FAA Safety Team Representative, told DailyMail.com it was likely the result of the pilot programming his route.

'What appears to have happened as the plane was flying to Islip, it’ was very high.

'They very well might have been incapacitated [by then]. The pilot has waypoints in the program, it's similar to a GPS system. So the autopilot might have been flying him to Islip, then the next point could have very well have been the airport they departed from.

'It could have been towards DC or somewhere down south. It looks like it was affixed in that direction.

'In that scenario, it's likely the plane was flying itself.'

'It's most likely a loss of cabin pressure or the pilot became incapacitated. He could have had a heart attack or something like that but judging by the fact there weren't any emergency calls made from the passengers that we know of, I’m leaning more towards loss of cabin pressure.

'It typically happens in older planes,' Kyle Bailey, a former FAA Safety Team Representative, told DailyMail.com.

The Cessna involved was a Cessna Citation V 560 manufactured in 1990. It belonged to the company run by John and Barbara Rumpel, Adina adoptive parents, who confirmed her death and that of her daughter.

A plane manufactured that long ago would be considered old in aviation terms, Bailey said.

'It wouldn’t have the latest and greatest technology, the planes really evolved around the year 2000 that’s when the technology really went crazy,' Bailey said.

Such planes have a 'complicated' network of pressure relief valves which could have failed. It could have been sudden or gradual.

'When you’re up there it could be seconds, but if it’s very slow, it could manifest as slowly like making you tired then eventually you just pass out.

'It’s interesting, it probably happened fairly quickly because the pilot, if he was feeling ill or even slightly ill, he'd likely want to land at a closer airport.'

By the time the F-16s were scrambled, the plane was likely running out of fuel, he said.

'The timing actually works out perfectly. The crash was about an hour after it flew over Islip and there's around a 45 minute fuel reserve, so that works perfectly with the theory that it ran out of fuel.

'It just by chance it ran out of fuel just as it penetrated [the DC] zone.'

At 3.20pm, the F-16 jets were in the air.

At 3.22pm, the Cessna crashed into St Mary's Wilderness in the Shenandoah Valley.

The impact was so violent that it left a 'crater' in the ground.

'That rate of descent, 2800ft-a-minute, that is everyone’s worst nightmare.

'But they likely wouldn't have been conscious so it wouldn't have been painful for anyone,' Bailey said.

 

[Bounceycat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665540391263772674

The fourth photo looks very much like a seat on the plane. It's abhorrent that these close-up images were taken and shared. It's like nothing has been learned from the Kobe Bryant crash.

 

[Gardenista]

Cessna with Trump donor's 'daughter' onboard tumbled 28,000ft a MINUTE

The jet was carrying Adina Azarian, her two-year-old daughter Aria, their nanny and the pilot, who has not yet been named. It took off at 1.13pm from Elizabethton Airport in Tennessee.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The jet was carrying Adina Azarian, her two-year-old daughter Aria, their nanny and the pilot, who has not yet been named. It took off at 1.13pm from Elizabethton Airport in Tennessee and was scheduled to land at MacArthur Airport in Islip, on Long Island.

Instead, at 2.45pm, the plane approached MacArthur but then turned around and flew south again, alerting DC officials.

No one on board answered calls from the ground, prompting the need for two F-16 fighter jets from Joint Base Andrews to rush to its side to investigate. They flew with such velocity that a sonic boom was heard over parts of DC and Virginia.

Once in the air, the F-16 pilots reported seeing the Cessna pilot slumped over in the cockpit. Within moments, the Cessna crashed, tumbling a terrifying 2,800ft-a-minute into St Mary's Wilderness, around 175 miles southwest of Washington DC.

While the tragedy remains under investigation, aviation experts tell DailyMail.com it was likely down to cabin pressure failure which will have caused the pilot - and everyone else - to pass out from a lack of oxygen.

When the plane approached Long Island, rather than landing it diverted back to the south.

Kyle Bailey, a former FAA Safety Team Representative, told DailyMail.com it was likely the result of the pilot programming his route.

'What appears to have happened as the plane was flying to Islip, it’ was very high.

'They very well might have been incapacitated [by then]. The pilot has waypoints in the program, it's similar to a GPS system. So the autopilot might have been flying him to Islip, then the next point could have very well have been the airport they departed from.

'It could have been towards DC or somewhere down south. It looks like it was affixed in that direction.

'In that scenario, it's likely the plane was flying itself.'

'It's most likely a loss of cabin pressure or the pilot became incapacitated. He could have had a heart attack or something like that but judging by the fact there weren't any emergency calls made from the passengers that we know of, I’m leaning more towards loss of cabin pressure.

'It typically happens in older planes,' Kyle Bailey, a former FAA Safety Team Representative, told DailyMail.com.

The Cessna involved was a Cessna Citation V 560 manufactured in 1990. It belonged to the company run by John and Barbara Rumpel, Adina adoptive parents, who confirmed her death and that of her daughter.

A plane manufactured that long ago would be considered old in aviation terms, Bailey said.

'It wouldn’t have the latest and greatest technology, the planes really evolved around the year 2000 that’s when the technology really went crazy,' Bailey said.

Such planes have a 'complicated' network of pressure relief valves which could have failed. It could have been sudden or gradual.

'When you’re up there it could be seconds, but if it’s very slow, it could manifest as slowly like making you tired then eventually you just pass out.

'It’s interesting, it probably happened fairly quickly because the pilot, if he was feeling ill or even slightly ill, he'd likely want to land at a closer airport.'

By the time the F-16s were scrambled, the plane was likely running out of fuel, he said.

'The timing actually works out perfectly. The crash was about an hour after it flew over Islip and there's around a 45 minute fuel reserve, so that works perfectly with the theory that it ran out of fuel.

'It just by chance it ran out of fuel just as it penetrated [the DC] zone.'

At 3.20pm, the F-16 jets were in the air.

At 3.22pm, the Cessna crashed into St Mary's Wilderness in the Shenandoah Valley.

The impact was so violent that it left a 'crater' in the ground.

'That rate of descent, 2800ft-a-minute, that is everyone’s worst nightmare.

'But they likely wouldn't have been conscious so it wouldn't have been painful for anyone,' Bailey said.

I believe this should be 28,000 ft/minute.

 

[indicolite22]

If this was a case of the pilot having a medical emergency, but with the passengers staying awake, wouldn't they be able to at least contact someone on the ground?

Apart from the Payne Stewart incident there was also an airliner lost over Greece due to lack of pressurization (Helios Airways Flight 522).

 

[sds71]

@Phil_Lewis_


WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Fighter jets reported pilot slumped over in plane that flew over nation's capital before Virginia crash.

 

[MsMarple]

Take this with a grain of salt because I learned the following info via my pilot training on Twitter

He was not in restricted airspace since he was at 34K feet and the no fly zone only goes to 18K feet. The concern was he did not respond to radio transmissions so they didn't know what he was up to.

I did find this which seems to give the 18K feet info

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/restricted-airspace-0#:~:text=The%20Washington%20D.C.%20Metropolitan%20Area,%2DRestricted%20Zone%20(FRZ).

Yes, the information is correct; 18k is the restricted limit. A pilot friend cut short some faulty thinking I had about the jets and explained the same as what you said.

 

[whitelilac]

If this was a case of the pilot having a medical emergency, but with the passengers staying awake, wouldn't they be able to at least contact someone on the ground?

Apart from the Payne Stewart incident there was also an airliner lost over Greece due to lack of pressurization (Helios Airways Flight 522).

I would think so.

I would also expect those fighter pilots to have scanned the passenger windows. Likely they did not see any movement there either. If any passengers were still awake and lucid, they would have seen those fighters and made signals, waving etc. Didn't happen imo, no reports of such.

As tragic as this is, may be a small blessing that no one knew what was about to happen.

 

[Springrain]

Times like this are when I hate the journalistic desire to get a "scoop." Mr. Rumpel must be distraught right now.

Seriously! Leave the poor man alone! JMO