NE - Eight killed, 4 injured in Westroads Mall shooting, Omaha, 5 Dec 2007

[KatK]

<snip> Give me the exact definition of an "assault rifle."

Here ya go, I'll oblige.

 

[SadieMae]

This is horrible!!! I feel so sorry for the families of those killed. They were probably just out to buy Christmas presents. Awful...just awful.
Maral...thank goodness your mom had already left!

 

[Dark Knight]

Here ya go, I'll oblige.

I'm not sure Wikipedia is definitive or not, but their definition left lots of room for gun manufacturers to create weapons that don't fit that description. Which is my point and was the main problem with the original assault ban. Furthermore, that definition is so broad it could include many guns that no one would see as an "assult weapon" as they are used for hunting, etc.

 

[KatK]

Thanks all.

It looks like we won't know the victim's names today. LE said 5 females and 3 males, some employees and some customers. When asked if any were children, LE refused to answer.

:sick: Life has changed for more than one family today.

 

[SadieMae]

You're WRONG. Assault weapons were banned for awhile, and the ban expired. These types of guns used to be only for the military. Weaponry and need for weaponry changes with the times, and the advancement of types of weapons. There are some weapons disturbed people don't need to be toting around.

Assault weapons kill many people, really, realy fast. YOU know what they are; you know the Constitution did not intend people to protect themselves with this type of weapon. It has nothing to with a Const. amendment; Congress banned assault weapons. Guilliani got rid of excess guns in NY. It's up to the discretion of the states and the voters.

That's like saying it's OK for me to have a small nuclear bomb and throw it out my door to protect my house. It destroys many people quickly.

Don't worry; as a victim of Charles Whitman, I know all about mass shootings. This is an inappropriate time to get into a "gun rights" discussion - we don't even know who has lived or died.

Don't worry, no one will take away your guns - not in this country. I and my husband protect ourselves with appropriate guns also.

Haven't you read about how police are being gunned down by assault weapons now? 50&#37; increase in deaths this year. Read up - it pays to be informed.

There was just a documentary on I watched about that. The police can't keep up with the hig power weapons on the street, and are being outgunned. Some forces are now using assault type rifles. My sister just finished training on two new ones her department has switched to. They used to have shotguns in their cars, but not anymore. When she first started 21 years ago , standard issue was a .38, then .45, then .357, now she carries a 9mm and the assault rifle.

ETA: How the h*ll did he get the rifle????

 

[Dark Knight]

There was just a documentary on I watched about that. The police can't keep up with the hig power weapons on the street, and are being outgunned. Some forces are now using assault type rifles. My sister just finished training on two new ones her department has switched to. They used to have shotguns in their cars, but not anymore. When she first started 21 years ago , standard issue was a .38, then .45, then .357, now she carries a 9mm and the assault rifle.

Every LE that I know personally carries an AR-15 or similar rifle in their cars. And these are small towns around here. PLUS shotguns, I should add. This has been for several years, too.

ETA: I wonder why she downsized from a .45 and .357 to a 9mm? That's going the wrong direction if you're adding firepower. You make up for it with capacity, I realize.

 

[Marthatex]

The assault weapon ban didn't stop Columbine. In a country the size of America, you cannot keep any weapons off of the black market and out of bad guy's hands. And the loopholes in the ban were ludicrous and easy to get around. How so? Give me the exact definition of an "assault rifle."

Wrong again. That's a myth that the gun lobby perpetrates.

Studies show banning assault weapons does lower crime. It DOES keep guns away from bad guys; of course not ALL. background check important of course. The gun lobby controls America. We have more guns than any other country. Where will it all end? In tragedy, like now.

The access to all guns is way too easy, plus families are irresponsible.

"Cho", is a good example of record keeping that fell through the cracks. He was a psycho; and got a gun easily. A crack in Virginia law, now they tightened up - after 25 COLLEGE KIDS WERE GUNNED DOWN.

Sorry, "AUTOMATIC WEAPONS" I call those assault weapons. Semi-automatic weapons. Those don't need to be in any teenagers and "mental" persons hands. We have a long way to go....lock up your guns parents.

Police deaths up 50&#37; this year alone due to automatic weapons. It was on the ABC news; and I've read it several other places. The gangs are using them too.

Obviously some measures need to be taken, and I don't feel like arguing about it. That's up to Congress and the people to vote and write their Congressmen. The frequency of these mass killings is just ridiculous. Obviously, we have some kind of problem going on. We need better mental health care also, so depressed people can go for help. IMO

On MSNBC it says 9 total. Goodnite; what a sad thing.

 

[Marthatex]

There was just a documentary on I watched about that. The police can't keep up with the hig power weapons on the street, and are being outgunned. Some forces are now using assault type rifles. My sister just finished training on two new ones her department has switched to. They used to have shotguns in their cars, but not anymore. When she first started 21 years ago , standard issue was a .38, then .45, then .357, now she carries a 9mm and the assault rifle.

ETA: How the h*ll did he get the rifle????

Right. The police are having to seriously upgrade their own weapons - it's the "battle of the assault weapons". Crazies don't respect police anymore, so they just gun them down or "go on a chase". They're on drugs; immoral, etc.

Who knows how he got it....

 

[SadieMae]

Every LE that I know personally carries an AR-15 or similar rifle in their cars. And these are small towns around here. PLUS shotguns, I should add. This has been for several years, too.

ETA: I wonder why she downsized from a .45 and .357 to a 9mm? That's going the wrong direction if you're adding firepower. You make up for it with capacity, I realize.

She really didn't like the .357, too big for her hands. They made a special grip for hers. She likes the 9mm a lot better and quicker to reload. Also, the vest she wears is not that good stopping high powered ammo. I worry about that going up against an automatic rifle. She's only been shot at once through a door by a rifle, the vest stopped it. She got a cracked rib. The vest she wears also has a molded steel plate insert. We do a lot of praying for her.

I really wish I knew the answer to get those guns off the streets. My son told me he saw a guy he went to school with pop his trunk at the mall and asked him if he wanted to buy one. :banghead: Guy had 4 M4's!!!! He was selling them for a mere $300 each. I can't figure out WHERE this kid got those guns.

 

[Dark Knight]

Wrong again. That's a myth that the gun lobby perpetrates.

Studies show banning assault weapons does lower crime. It DOES keep guns away from bad guys; of course not ALL. background check important of course. The gun lobby controls America. We have more guns than any other country. Where will it all end? In tragedy, like now.

The access to all guns is way too easy, plus families are irresponsible.

"Cho", is a good example of record keeping that fell through the cracks. He was a psycho; and got a gun easily. A crack in Virginia law, now they tightened up - after 25 COLLEGE KIDS WERE GUNNED DOWN.

Sorry, "AUTOMATIC WEAPONS" I call those assault weapons. Semi-automatic weapons. Those don't need to be in any teenagers and "mental" persons hands. We have a long way to go....lock up your guns parents.

Police deaths up 50% this year alone due to automatic weapons. It was on the ABC news; and I've read it several other places. The gangs are using them too.

Obviously some measures need to be taken, and I don't feel like arguing about it. That's up to Congress and the people to vote and write their Congressmen. The frequency of these mass killings is just ridiculous. Obviously, we have some kind of problem going on. We need better mental health care also, so depressed people can go for help. IMO

On MSNBC it says 9 total. Goodnite; what a sad thing.

I agree there is no justifiable need for fully automatic weapons. Semi-automatic weapons are made out to be scarier than they are by the media, though. They aren't even close to a fully automatic as far as shooting goes. Night and day, apples and oranges.

 

[Dark Knight]

She really didn't like the .357, too big for her hands. They made a special grip for hers. She likes the 9mm a lot better and quicker to reload. Also, the vest she wears is not that good stopping high powered ammo. I worry about that going up against an automatic rifle. She's only been shot at once through a door by a rifle, the vest stopped it. She got a cracked rib. The vest she wears also has a molded steel plate insert. We do a lot of praying for her.

I really wish I knew the answer to get those guns off the streets. My son told me he saw a guy he went to school with pop his trunk at the mall and asked him if he wanted to buy one. :banghead: Guy had 4 M4's!!!! He was selling them for a mere $300 each. I can't figure out WHERE this kid got those guns.

I'd think the recoil of the .357 would bother her! They make .45's in "ladies" sizes now, and they load as fast as a 9mm. She won't likely ever face an actual automatic rifle, but a semi-auto is possible, unfortunately, and no, few vests short of a flak jacket can stop those. A simple deer/hunting rifle is even worse in some cases, as they are designed to stop big game. Hopefully she at least has a metal or ceramic plate over her chest. I'll also pray for her.

 

[Marthatex]

Ok, back to the subject:

"He was a quiet, helpful young man. He was depressed and has always been depressed. But he was NOT on medication for mental illness" DUHHHH

He loved animals. But did have criminal past (drugs, disorderly conduct). The warning signs were there.

LOst his girlfriend, lost his job.

We've been here before - they're always male, always depressed or angry; always just "lost someone" or a job.

What does it take for mentally ill people to get help? There are hundreds and thousands of these people just lurking, waiting for a "trigger" to go off - pardon the pun.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22126514/

 

[eve]

I agree, so many out there are just ticking time bombs. I worry about this a lot being a teacher of high risk teens. Some of them scare me and I'm not easily scared by people, however odd their behavior. The other day a kid (just turned 17) I knew several years ago who had dropped off the map came in and said his mom had taken off in a rv with a new guy weeks before and that his dad had died several months ago. He was homeless, not going to school and wanted to enroll. He was cold, skinny, coughing and pale. The poor kid probably just wanted to have somewhere to go, somewhere where he would belong. He said "Eve, do you remember me?" Our social worker reached the mom somehow (cell I guess) and she said, "Yup, he's on his own." We gave him breakfast, lunch, bought him mittens and a hat and unfortunately, after waiting all day, he was escorted away by the police to a boys ranch, something he did not expect. We had to call the police, by law, of course, and at least he's got shelter. Next he goes to court to made a ward of the state but no foster care is available for kids his age. What dismayed me was that the police said they had to cuff him. Procedure. You should have seen the look on his face. I felt terrible for him but I was also fearful when I saw his eyes. Our social worker saw it too, and somehow convinced the police to take him without the cuffs. We were all struck by the look of betrayal on his face. It scared me. Some of these kids have nothing to lose.

Eve

 

[gman20001969]

First I have to say that even though I am a proud gun owner and carry mine along with my liscence on a daily basis, I strongly think that assault weapons should be banned. After all, guns should be used as a form of defense right? What are you really defending with an assault rifle? The name itself means to take on the offensive with your attack. And for deer hunting? That's not sport hunting. Is using dynamite for fishing sport fishing???

It's a shame what some parents do. Some parents are just kids that never grew up and accepted responsibility. I have an ex-girlfriend that is like that. I hope her kids aren't permanently affected by her choices, but I'm afraid her oldest already is. My kids have it hard. I'm pretty strict as in "It's my house and you do as I say while under my roof". Yet I'm also cynical. They don't know when to jump or when to stop.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I've shopped at that Von Maur on several occasions, it is a beautiful department store, complete with a divine women's powder room and grand piano playing on the main floor.

I feel so terrible for those who have lost their lives and especially their families. What a great tragedy for all who have suffered at the hands of a tormented soul. I pray for peace for all. It has hit our community hard. Even though we live in a rural setting 70 miles away, many of us venture to Omaha for a girls day of shopping.

 

[close_enough]

Ok, back to the subject:

"He was a quiet, helpful young man. He was depressed and has always been depressed. But he was NOT on medication for mental illness" DUHHHH

He loved animals. But did have criminal past (drugs, disorderly conduct). The warning signs were there.

LOst his girlfriend, lost his job.

We've been here before - they're always male, always depressed or angry; always just "lost someone" or a job.

What does it take for mentally ill people to get help? There are hundreds and thousands of these people just lurking, waiting for a "trigger" to go off - pardon the pun.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22126514/

“He said, ‘It’s too late,”’ and hung up, she told CNN. She then called Hawkins’ mother.

In the note, which was turned over to authorities, Hawkins wrote that he was “sorry for everything” and would not be a burden on his family anymore.

“Now I’ll be famous,” he wrote.

sad, sad, sad......

as long as guns are out there, assault or not, there will be people like this that can get hold of them....there's no way to stop it, ban or no ban, imo....

 

[MsPooh]

Did any of you see the interview that Matt Lauer did with Dr. Gail Saltz this morning on "The Today Show" concerning this freak? I am soooo mad right now I could scream! She started off talking about his emotional issues (I can deal with that part)..then she went into his having AD/HD and he has been treated for years for it..and most kids with this condition have a hard time being successful in life because of it (this is where I started getting a lil mad) and it pretty much went downhill from there..she totally blamed AD/HD for this! Why am I so mad? Because I have a 10 yr old DS and husband with AD/HD and anyone who knows this condition on a personal level will understand that everything she said was against everything we (advocates) are trying to do to make people understand that AD/HD does not make a failure..I am so sorry for ranting I just had to get this out, and what better place to do it than a place where some really awesome people "live" so to speak...

 

[Taximom]

Then that's the second professional I've heard about talk about kids with ADD/ADHD that way this morning. That's so unfair. It just happened to be part of his make-up, not the reason he went psycho. :furious:

 

[Squishified]

Shooter Cased Store First, Came Back Armed:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mall.shooting/index.html

 

[KatK]

:banghead: So, AD/HD is the trendy scapegoat and whipping boy now, eh?