NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

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I would be interested if this was a step parent...involved...

I know a lot of people who work at these residential therapeutic schools. There are some great ones, and some that are terrible. If anyone is going to put their child in a school like this, they should go do an in person visit, review the credentials of the staff, and get recommendations from other parents or professionals in the area.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
In my professional opinion, any time you invite total strangers into your home to literally kidnap your child, you are inflicting trauma on your kid. These programs should be illegal, but even if one or two of them have merit, this technique of whisking kids away should be illegal. 100%.
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Agree 10000000% this is child abuse
 
I went to one of these schools for a short time as a teen (many moons ago). At the time, the things they did to us seemed completely normal and just part of the rules, and I didn’t find it particularly traumatic at the time (I was/am pretty resilient and I didn’t experience the worst of it).

But looking back now as a grown up, I’m horrified that these sorts of practices went on. Strip searches, older students (17-19 year olds) monitoring younger ones in the showers, really controlling behaviour, infractions for the most minor things (putting the vacuum away wrong), weird rules around eating (some children were banned from eating certain foods), children being put in solitary confinement and made to sit in silence facing the corner for months on end. There were some very disturbed and traumatised kids there. There was also, I’m pretty sure, considerable sexual abuse going on, certainly by the school director (he used to invite children to sleep in his bed with him) and one staff member eventually ran off with a 16/17 year old student and they lived together and had a relationship for years ago. All of this documented btw when the school was finally shut down and reported in MSM.

I’m sure there are genuinely good ones, but there are a lot of questionable ones that fly under the radar bypassing laws and regulatory bodies. The one I went to had ‘campuses’ in Central America and in Europe that were not governed by US laws and operated as ‘conference facilities’ rather than schools. Dodgy as hell.

My guess in this situation that this is sadly either (a) a death resulting from restraint injuries during travel or from an undiagnosed heart condition or similar exacerbated by the trauma what happened, or (b) self harm in a moment when he was able to evade staff on the first day/night. MOO
 
The reasons why this child died during the first night at this camp are not limitless. The camp's tradition is to 'snatch and grab' the child, if you will, against their will. One story had a camper who was handcuffed for the travel from home to the facility. I don't think this young lad had access to anything to harm himself with such as a plastic spoon [they eventually learn how to make themselves wooden spoons from tree branches in the woods]. When taken or removed from the family home, the children do not have time to gather clothes in a satchel as they're issued clothing at the camp after being stripped.

Since his death is described as an unnatural event, there could have been asphyxiation involved.

Even though the child met a tragic fate after the parent(s) chose to send him there, they had no way of knowing they'd never see their son alive again. It's heartbreaking. They deserve to know how this unexpected death came to happen to their 12yo child within less than 24 hours of leaving his home.

Further, it's my understanding the enrollees are issued a small tarp and some string so they can build shelter for themselves upon arrival. They sleep outdoors because there's a lot of hiking, according to what I read. There's a point system that includes a blow up mattress but few earn one because it's v difficult to earn and accumulate points bc they're taken away so quickly and easily for alleged infractions.

An undiagnosed health condition could be possible but some pressure or strain needed to precipitate a fatal heart event of a 12yo child. It's a tragedy.
 
DeDee said:
The reasons why this child died during the first night at this camp are not limitless. The camp's tradition is to 'snatch and grab' the child, if you will, against their will. One story had a camper who was handcuffed for the travel from home to the facility. I don't think this young lad had access to anything to harm himself with such as a plastic spoon [they eventually learn how to make themselves wooden spoons from tree branches in the woods]. When taken or removed from the family home, the children do not have time to gather clothes in a satchel as they're issued clothing at the camp after being stripped.

Since his death is described as an unnatural event, there could have been asphyxiation involved.

Even though the child met a tragic fate after the parent(s) chose to send him there, they had no way of knowing they'd never see their son alive again. It's heartbreaking. They deserve to know how this unexpected death came to happen to their 12yo child within less than 24 hours of leaving his home.

Further, it's my understanding the enrollees are issued a small tarp and some string so they can build shelter for themselves upon arrival. They sleep outdoors because there's a lot of hiking, according to what I read. There's a point system that includes a blow up mattress but few earn one because it's v difficult to earn and accumulate points bc they're taken away so quickly and easily for alleged infractions.

An undiagnosed health condition could be possible but some pressure or strain needed to precipitate a fatal heart event of a 12yo child. It's a tragedy.
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As someone who loves the outdoors (as an adult) it is so awful to think of using the wilderness as a way to force a teen into submission :(
 
DeDee said:
Further, it's my understanding the enrollees are issued a small tarp and some string so they can build shelter for themselves upon arrival. They sleep outdoors because there's a lot of hiking, according to what I read.
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IMO: During certain seasons of the year, this is a recipe for disaster for acquiring tick-borne illnesses.
From the North Carolina Dept. of Health and Human Services, Communicable Disease

Home: Tick Borne Illnesses:
Several illnesses transmitted by ticks are found in North Carolina:
Ehrlichiosis
Lyme disease
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF) and other Spotted Fever Rickettsial Diseases (SFR)
STARI (Southern Tick-Associated Rash Illness)
..."Ticks are common in all areas of North Carolina. The more time spent outdoors, especially in wooded areas, can increase your risk of acquiring a tick-borne illness..."

Wonder what they issue for sleeping bags?
 
mickey2942 said:
No place that is legitimate, would "kidnap" a kid, and create that much trauma for a child.
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Absolutely correct. Why would the "kidnap" personnel with the therapy camp who comes to take him or her make the teen scared or angry or both before he or she even arrives?
Further, if the child or teen had any ideas of suicide prior to being taken to the camp, it may indeed cause the teen to go ahead and attempt or succeed in suicide after arrival. JMO.
Hoping there is a task force (or whatever it would be called) on its way there asap. Hoping the parents are demanding such. At the least, the parents should get a good attorney to serve the place with a whopping lawsuit.
 
mickey2942 said:
No place that is legitimate, would "kidnap" a kid, and create that much trauma for a child.
Click to expand...

And what parent would pay someone to do so?.

I'm not against parents trying to find something that works to help their child, of course not. But getting them dragged away from their home by two grown men like criminals is not that, and any 'programme' that promotes this as the first step is not the one that is going to save your child from themselves.

I can't imagine the trauma a child would feel being ripped away like that, how scared and forsaken they would feel.
How is tearing them down to this level a precursor for building self esteem?.

Makes no sense to me.

JMO.
 
borndem said:
Absolutely correct. Why would the "kidnap" personnel with the therapy camp who comes to take him or her make the teen scared or angry or both before he or she even arrives?
Further, if the child or teen had any ideas of suicide prior to going to the camp, before he or she was taken so horribly, it may indeed cause the teen to go ahead and attempt or succeed in suicide after arrival. JMO.
Hoping there is a task force (or whatever it would be called) on its way there asap. Hoping the parents are demanding such. At the least, the parents should get a good attorney to serve the place with a whopping lawsuit.
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But if parents pay them to take their child, if they give their permission, how are they not complicit if something happens to a child because of these actions? How could they sue if a child took their own life because of such treatment?.

Hypothetically speaking?.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
In my professional opinion, any time you invite total strangers into your home to literally kidnap your child, you are inflicting trauma on your kid. These programs should be illegal, but even if one or two of them have merit, this technique of whisking kids away should be illegal. 100%.
Click to expand...
BBM. I thought they were illegal! Years ago, there were news stories about the tactics they use are considered child. abuse. The abrupt separation from home, family, friends would be incredibly traumatizing.
JMO
 
DeDee said:
Further, it's my understanding the enrollees are issued a small tarp and some string so they can build shelter for themselves upon arrival. They sleep outdoors because there's a lot of hiking, according to what I read. There's a point system that includes a blow up mattress but few earn one because it's v difficult to earn and accumulate points bc they're taken away so quickly and easily for alleged infractions.
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rsbm, bbm

The overnight low on Thursday, February 8 was either 27 degrees or 24 degrees Fahrenheit:



February 3 was 28.

See a big problem here....

A person experienced in the outdoors would take a sleeping bag rated for those temperatures imho.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
Tough Love is when treating someone sternly in an effort to help them in the future.
Kidnapping with parental permission is not kidnapping, right? If it occurred, handcuffing the 12yo was somehow legal, right? IDK

We are unaware of the behavior that led to this [drastic] measure of being taken alive to an unknown place for an extended period of time, against thine own will, in order, to help a 12yo into the future. Meanwhile, we'll wait for an update. It's sad to be his loved ones at this solemn time of great tragedy.
 
Any program that starts by kidnapping a child out of their home can't ever be therapeutic. This poor child is just another victim of the TTI.

Also, how is it safe to enroll a child in a wilderness "therapy" program out of the blue and without a medical exam being performed beforehand? Absolutely insane.
 
IMO many of these camps "win" the struggle with the child by breaking them. No thought to teachable skills. No coping mechanisms. Parents can feel helpless and maybe their perceived failure at parenting is reinforced as a tactic of some of these places to get them to jump into the program. I cannot emphasize IMO enough... I cannot fathom the pain and guilt these parents may be facing.
 
Laughing said:
rsbm, bbm

The overnight low on Thursday, February 8 was either 27 degrees or 24 degrees Fahrenheit:



February 3 was 28.

See a big problem here....

A person experienced in the outdoors would take a sleeping bag rated for those temperatures imho.

jmho ymmv lrr
Click to expand...

I understand the possible danger from exposure to the elements including ticks. The detainees are not allowed time to gather their personal belongings or favorite things together. 3 books are allowed but must be earned for access to them. The items issued to the incoming children are not known by me except the tshirt and shorts/pants and whatnot. A blanket, beanie, hammock, sleeping bag or similar are not known by me, att.

Someone can maybe go to the therapy camp website to find out the situ and if there are indeed sheltered bunk beds available. The young man who explained his experience only mentioned the tarp and string as shelter, and how to earn a blown up mattress. Admittedly, I cld hv missed it.
 
Rolypolyoly said:
And what parent would pay someone to do so?.

I'm not against parents trying to find something that works to help their child, of course not. But getting them dragged away from their home by two grown men like criminals is not that, and any 'programme' that promotes this as the first step is not the one that is going to save your child from themselves.

I can't imagine the trauma a child would feel being ripped away like that, how scared and forsaken they would feel.
How is tearing them down to this level a precursor for building self esteem?.

Makes no sense to me.

JMO.
Click to expand...
*This may be an unpopular thought....
I can understand your perspective 100% but I will say that I know people who have done exactly this. Their kids were out of control using all kinds of drugs, weapons and doing behavior that would have ended up killing them. We can all recognize the trauma associated with taking kids in the middle of the night. That said, until one is in the same situation with the same fears and possibly violent destructive behavior with nowhere else to turn, the automatic rush to judgment is important to temper. I work with young people who have varying degrees of mental illness. One of my clients has been waiting for psychiatric help for four months, paraded to ERs because there is no other option--- held in the ER for 72 hours, medicated beyond belief, and released. I have violent clients who are in a revolving juvenile arrests and never getting behavioral health. As a country, the US does not have what it needs to combat the many factors that are derailing youth. Every day I come home from work, I thank my stars that I don't have kids who have these issues and say a little prayer for my clients who may or may not make it to adulthood.
 
DeDee said:
Even though the child met a tragic fate after the parent(s) chose to send him there, they had no way of knowing they'd never see their son alive again. It's heartbreaking. They deserve to know how this unexpected death came to happen to their 12yo child within less than 24 hours of leaving his home.
Click to expand...
How desperate parents must be to choose to do this and to pay this amount of money.

WHAT are these children doing. What are the backgrounds?

Having raised only one fairly "good" child, I can't even imagine behavior that would cause a parent to consider such a camp. Do any of the interviews/stories focus on discussion of what might lead parents to make this horrifying decision. Because surely, parents are torn apart to have reached this point. . .

What do kids who have been sent to these camps acknowledge they did that led their parents to even consider such an extreme measure? Will they discuss/ are they capable of discussing their own behavior in any rational way?

What can possibly push parents to even consider this for a child?
 
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