NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #3

[Skigirl]

By law, a person who pleads guilty has to admit guilt. A plea is ALWAYS taken to a judge. A plea deal is a situation where the DA agrees to cap the punishment if the accused pleads guilty. However, a plea deal is not always accepted by the judge. This was the case with Hunter Biden. The prosecutor and the defense had an agreement for a deal, but the judge looked at it and said this is unreasonable and rejected the deal. A plea is taken TO the judge, not necessarily received from the DA. This why, at the first appearance, before the defense attorney has even seen the evidence, the judge asks the defendant "What is your plea?"

Converse error. "If P, then Q" does not mean "if Q, then P" where P = plea deal and Q = guity plea.

 

[Skigirl]

By law, a person who pleads guilty has to admit guilt. A plea is ALWAYS taken to a judge. A plea deal is a situation where the DA agrees to cap the punishment if the accused pleads guilty. However, a plea deal is not always accepted by the judge. This was the case with Hunter Biden. The prosecutor and the defense had an agreement for a deal, but the judge looked at it and said this is unreasonable and rejected the deal. A plea is taken TO the judge, not necessarily received from the DA. This why, at the first appearance, before the defense attorney has even seen the evidence, the judge asks the defendant "What is your plea?"

There are two things getting conflated. A plea is when you say whether or not you are guilty. A plea deal is a negotiated agreement. You can enter into a plea deal without pleading guilty. You can enter a plea without a plea deal. You can agree to enter a specific plea as part of a plea deal. Who needs to approve it, whether or not it's always approved, who it is negotiated with, and what you have to admit to if you plead guilty are all orthogonal issues.

 

[Durhamncheese]

p.77

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Durhamncheese]

[Skull injuries caused by blow with glass bottles] - PubMed

Six cases of blows with glass bottles on the skull are reported. The glass bottles varied in size, weight, shape and filling level. In all cases the bottles broke, but there were no fractures of the skull or injuries of the brain or meninges. As consequences of the blows with the glass bottles...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"In all cases the bottles broke, but there were no fractures of the skull or injuries of the brain or meninges."

 

[Webthrush]

First, I’ll just mention that Durham DA DeBerry (who’s handling of the Hedgepeth case I don’t fathom) thankfully did NOT win her bid to run for attorney general.

My own take on matters under discussion hasn’t changed in some years: I think Faith was being “assaulted” by 1 or quite likely 2 individuals (1 being MESO). She wasn’t “raped” because she wasn’t (likely) penetrated. She fought back against an individual by gouging at eyes, kicking, or biting, which enraged an assaulter, at which point MESO (whether he was the main “assaulter” or not) grabbed the nearest thing (a bottle) and smashed her over the head to quell her resistance (there was no initial “plan” to murder her, that was just the ill-result). In all the excitement MESO then ejaculated either on Faith or on the bed (probably before Faith was literally dead, but the exact timing barely matters).

I keep hearing all the excuses of why the case is taking so long but it still makes no sense to me, unless there is something ‘fishy’ about the evidence gathered by CHPD and the Durham DA (I worked 15 yrs. in clinical genetics, and know even DNA evidence can get screwed up). So far as I know MESO has only been charged (and jailed) and still never been arraigned (that was to be the 2nd court hearing which was cancelled, no reason given, and never re-scheduled -- if someone knows otherwise, please do-tell).
Just my 2 cents….!

 

[fluffypaste]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>The only reason anybody even knows about this shirt is because it was mentioned in the Breaking Homicide documentary. And Kris Mohandie admits in the documentary itself that the police told them straight-up the shirt was not evidence against Karena Rosario. So whatever the "speck" ended up being, it had nothing to do with the murder.

Moreover, whenever the police themselves have commented on the matter, they've said that Karena Rosario is not a suspect and never has been a suspect. She's been repeatedly described as "cooperative" with law enforcement, and that's all we know. We don't know much of anything else about her interactions with police.

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

 

[fluffypaste]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed (non-approved source>
I need to refresh my mind on the details of this case because it has been so long, but I remember coming to a firm conclusion that all the texts sent from Faith Hedgepeth's cell phone were genuinely from Faith. The arguments for why they couldn't have been from her basically amounted to pointing out that there was 1 minor grammatical error in one of the messages, and that's just not convincing to me at all, even if she was "a stickler for grammar."

 

[louvillian08]

I need to refresh my mind on the details of this case because it has been so long, but I remember coming to a firm conclusion that all the texts sent from Faith Hedgepeth's cell phone were genuinely from Faith. The arguments for why they couldn't have been from her basically amounted to pointing out that there was 1 minor grammatical error in one of the messages, and that's just not convincing to me at all, even if she was "a stickler for grammar."

And the recipient of those texts, TM, was adamant she sent them.

 

[CADwrest]

I need to refresh my mind on the details of this case because it has been so long, but I remember coming to a firm conclusion that all the texts sent from Faith Hedgepeth's cell phone were genuinely from Faith. The arguments for why they couldn't have been from her basically amounted to pointing out that there was 1 minor grammatical error in one of the messages, and that's just not convincing to me at all, even if she was "a stickler for grammar."

It was a bit more complicated than that. The other issue was that Faith's friend (EC) said that she'd recently broken up with the recipient (TM), but the text comes across as pretty lovey-dovey. Personally, I don't think it's inconsistent with that; to me it reads as maybe things are a little complicated but there are clearly strong feelings still present.
One thing it's never remotely seemed to be is a decoy text. Way, way too long and deep.

 

[fluffypaste]

And the recipient of those texts, TM, was adamant she sent them.

It's coming back to me now. I remember thinking that TM's opinion deserved the most weight, because he was the actual recipient of the message. After all, TM is the person who would have the most knowledge of his interactions with Faith Hedgepeth.

But that's not what clinched it for me. What clinched it is that in one of the messages, Faith actually invites a guy to the apartment. Why would the killer want that? That's the exact opposite of what the killer would want!

I've researched many cases where a killer used a victim's cell phone to send fake messages. The messages sent from Faith Hedgepeth’s phone do NOT resemble any of the fake messages from those other cases. There is no doubt in my mind that Faith Hedgepeth sent those messages.

 

[fluffypaste]

It was a bit more complicated than that. The other issue was that Faith's friend (EC) said that she'd recently broken up with the recipient (TM), but the text comes across as pretty lovey-dovey. Personally, I don't think it's inconsistent with that; to me it reads as maybe things are a little complicated but there are clearly strong feelings still present.
One thing it's never remotely seemed to be is a decoy text. Way, way too long and deep.

I agree. It's just way too long and thoughtful of a message. Fake messages from killers usually put a premium on brevity.

But also consider the lack of any apparent utility. When a killer uses a cell phone from a victim to send a fake message, they are trying to achieve something specific. The messages from Faith Hedgepeth don't have that utilitarian feel to them.

 

[CADwrest]

I've researched many cases where a killer used a victim's cell phone to send fake messages. The messages sent from Faith Hedgepeth’s phone do NOT resemble any of the fake messages from those other cases. There is no doubt in my mind that Faith Hedgepeth sent those messages.

I’m curious about this. When you get time, can you give us some examples of fake text messages and what those looked like? It’d be nice to have a comparison.

 

[fluffypaste]

I’m curious about this. When you get time, can you give us some examples of fake text messages and what those looked like? It’d be nice to have a comparison.

I'm at work, so I can't be super detailed right now, but the main 2 cases that I was thinking about when I said that were Samantha Koenig (Alaska) and Taylor Wright (Florida). In both cases, killers succeeded in creating the false impression of a voluntary disappearance by using their victim's phone.

Although, in the case of Samantha Koenig, it is a major L for the police that they actually fell for it, because they literally had surveillance footage of her being kidnapped.

In the Taylor Wright case, it's a lot more understandable that the police initially fell for it. There were definitely things going on her life that would make a voluntary seem plausible. Taylor's girlfriend was the one who eventually started sounding the alarm that the messages were.....off, but even she may have initially thought the messages were real.

But in both cases, the messages served a clear purpose, so they have that "utilitarian" feel to them that I mentioned. And maybe that's not the ideal word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment. With Samantha Koenig, the messages make it clear that Israel was trying create the impression of a voluntary disappearance AND cast suspicion on Koenig's boyfriend at the same time.

In the other case, it is clear that Ashley wanted to create the impression of a voluntary appearance AND paint Taylor Wright as mentally distraught. In both cases, you can just look at the messages and understand within seconds what the killer was trying to achieve. They serve a clear purpose.

In the Faith Hedgepeth case, that feeling of "purpose" just isn't there.

EDIT: The Cheyenne Jessie case (Florida) is another that I could have mentioned.

 

[Durhamncheese]

His attorney is smart. Pay attention to the verb tenses.

Early 'prime suspect' in Faith Hedgepeth's slaying feels vindicated by another man's arrest

Eriq Jones said he was "prime suspect No. 1" in the days following the 2012 murder of University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill student Faith Hedgepeth, so he was finally able to breathe a sigh of relief Thursday when authorities announced that another man had been charged in the case.

www.wral.com

“They never clarified what their position was on [Eriq], so I would say continued statements that have come out throughout this investigation have made it clear that they continued to believe he was a person of interest or a suspect," Mannette said. “They made it clear there was DNA evidence, good DNA evidence, DNA evidence they believed belonged to the killer, and that did not match Eriq. At that point, he should have been eliminated as a suspect in this investigation.”

 

[Durhamncheese]

Th

I'm at work, so I can't be super detailed right now, but the main 2 cases that I was thinking about when I said that were Samantha Koenig (Alaska) and Taylor Wright (Florida). In both cases, killers succeeded in creating the false impression of a voluntary disappearance by using their victim's phone.

Although, in the case of Samantha Koenig, it is a major L for the police that they actually fell for it, because they literally had surveillance footage of her being kidnapped.

In the Taylor Wright case, it's a lot more understandable that the police initially fell for it. There were definitely things going on her life that would make a voluntary seem plausible. Taylor's girlfriend was the one who eventually started sounding the alarm that the messages were.....off, but even she may have initially thought the messages were real.

But in both cases, the messages served a clear purpose, so they have that "utilitarian" feel to them that I mentioned. And maybe that's not the ideal word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment. With Samantha Koenig, the messages make it clear that Israel was trying create the impression of a voluntary disappearance AND cast suspicion on Koenig's boyfriend at the same time.

In the other case, it is clear that Ashley wanted to create the impression of a voluntary appearance AND paint Taylor Wright as mentally distraught. In both cases, you can just look at the messages and understand within seconds what the killer was trying to achieve. They serve a clear purpose.

In the Faith Hedgepeth case, that feeling of "purpose" just isn't there.

EDIT: The Cheyenne Jessie case (Florida) is another that I could have mentioned.

The purpose was to get Brandon to come over since he wasn't responding to KR from KR's phone. KR had some doubts as to why Brandon was ignoring her calls, which is why the texts were sent from Faith's phone. Faith could have easily called (VOICE) Brandon, but didn't. Only a text. Why a text? You can't hear a voice on a text, can you?

 

[fluffypaste]

The purpose was to get Brandon to come over since he wasn't responding to KR from KR's phone. KR had some doubts as to why Brandon was ignoring her calls, which is why the texts were sent from Faith's phone. Faith could have easily called (VOICE) Brandon, but didn't. Only a text. Why a text? You can't hear a voice on a text, can you?

You're going to need to clarify your position here. Do you believe Faith Hedgepeth was alive or dead, at the time those messages were sent?

My Position is that (1) Faith Hedgepeth was alive at that time and (2) every message was written and sent by Faith Hedgepeth herself, of her own free will.

 

[Durhamncheese]

You're going to need to clarify your position here. Do you believe Faith Hedgepeth was alive or dead, at the time those messages were sent?

My Position is that (1) Faith Hedgepeth was alive at that time and (2) every message was written and sent by Faith Hedgepeth herself, of her own free will.

KR says she was asleep. I tend to agree with KR on that one. Except that it was a more permanent sleep. If Faith had sent those messages, then the people receiving them would have recognized it was her and understood the context. There was no context. The messages came out of the blue.
This is why it was strange, and this is why the police released those particular messages, but not others. They did not release the doubtless thousands of other messages in her phone because those messages were not of interest. They focused on those messages for a reason. They also know that sleeping people do not send text messages.

 

[Durhamncheese]

Karena is so desperately wanting boyfriend number one to come over that she keeps calling him, but he doesn't respond. She is concerned that he's ignoring her for whatever reason. She really needs him to pick her up and get her out of the apartment. But why? Faith was a great friend and listener. If Karena needed to talk, Faith was right there. Always an ear to hear.
If Faith was alive and awake and well, Faith could have called him because it's easier and quicker. She could have smoothed things out. But no, her phone sends just a text. Karena really needs you. More than you know. Karena is desperate, so why doesn't good friend Faith talk to her? Because Faith is asleep. But wait, how is she texting then.
Side note - Where is that word really heard elsewhere in this case? In the 911 call. Really!
Karena, realizing that boyfriend number one isn't responding to anything, resorts to convincing another guy to come get her and take her home with him. She needed to be out of that apartment and it didn't matter who did it. Notice that he didn't come up to the apartment. No need. She was peering out the window or waiting in the parking lot. Probably didn't want him to open the door and wake up Faith.

 

[CADwrest]

KR says she was asleep. I tend to agree with KR on that one. Except that it was a more permanent sleep. If Faith had sent those messages, then the people receiving them would have recognized it was her and understood the context. There was no context. The messages came out of the blue.
This is why it was strange, and this is why the police released those particular messages, but not others. They did not release the doubtless thousands of other messages in her phone because those messages were not of interest. They focused on those messages for a reason. They also know that sleeping people do not send text messages.

The only texts the police released were the two she wrote to BE. The ones to TM didn't come out until he went on Breaking Homicide.
I also don't know why CHPD released the information they did. I think per court order they had to release something so they just released a bunch of random stuff they didn't think was all that important (though if you notice, they also released things that made certain people look kind of bad, so I think there was an element of vindictiveness to it, but that's just my opinion.)
Just a point, but KR specifically said Faith was asleep when she left. The last message Faith sent (that we know about) was at 3:50 AM, so it's entirely possible Faith was awake then but had gone to bed in the intervening 40 minutes (when KR left at 4:27).

 

[CADwrest]

Karena is so desperately wanting boyfriend number one to come over that she keeps calling him, but he doesn't respond. She is concerned that he's ignoring her for whatever reason. She really needs him to pick her up and get her out of the apartment. But why? Faith was a great friend and listener. If Karena needed to talk, Faith was right there. Always an ear to hear.
If Faith was alive and awake and well, Faith could have called him because it's easier and quicker. She could have smoothed things out. But no, her phone sends just a text. Karena really needs you. More than you know. Karena is desperate, so why doesn't good friend Faith talk to her? Because Faith is asleep. But wait, how is she texting then.
Side note - Where is that word really heard elsewhere in this case? In the 911 call. Really!
Karena, realizing that boyfriend number one isn't responding to anything, resorts to convincing another guy to come get her and take her home with him. She needed to be out of that apartment and it didn't matter who did it. Notice that he didn't come up to the apartment. No need. She was peering out the window or waiting in the parking lot. Probably didn't want him to open the door and wake up Faith.

Well... except that the texts from Faith to BE never used the word "really". The text said "Hey B, can you come over here please? Karena needs you more than you know. Please let her know you care."
As far as KR and BE- that seems to have been a complicated relationship, and I don't think they were an official couple at the time. I think KR wanted them to be, and if memory serves, he's spent the night with them the night before, so probably something happened with them again. But I think KR's frantic behavior here is explained by him breaking plans with her. We also know JM had a relationship with her, so my interpretation of events is this:

KR and BE hook up previous night.
KR spends all day excited about rekindling the relationship.
Thrill happens, and KR asks BE if he'll pick her up later. He says yes.
He doesn't pick her up when he said (for reasons). She freaks out and calls/texts him numerous times.
Faith hears/sees that her friend is turning into an emotional wreck and tries to help by texting BE too.
Faith sends an appreciative text to TM since he doesn't treat her this way.
KR in a fit of pique reaches out to JM and arranges to spend the night with him instead.

Maybe that's right, maybe it's not, but to me it completely explains everything, and is totally consistent with how I remember people acting in college.