NY - Twins, boy and girl, 5, found dead in Bronx apartment, no signs of obvious trauma, Mount Hope, 18 Dec 2023

[bombardier]

the fact that they've been ruled homicides makes me think that they have evidence that the smothering was intentional, or the evidence at the scene ruled out unintentional smothering (no extensive blankets, kids physically able, tox showed no drugs with a tranquilizing/resp depression effect, etc).
some physical signs of 'intentional' smothering in this age group could be damage to the hands (from fighting back), cuts and bruising on the inner lips or inner cheeks (from teeth cutting into while firm pressure is applied), hemorrhage to the face and neck(kind of nonspecific but proves the degree of force used, in this age group one would assume that with that much force the child would wake up and move themselves, often is not visible externally so fits the 'no signs of trauma' narrative), aspiration of whatever material was used to smother (i.e. fibers from the pillowcase, would imply deep breaths were attempted), etc etc

 

[NCWatcher]

the fact that they've been ruled homicides makes me think that they have evidence that the smothering was intentional, or the evidence at the scene ruled out unintentional smothering (no extensive blankets, kids physically able, tox showed no drugs with a tranquilizing/resp depression effect, etc).
some physical signs of 'intentional' smothering in this age group could be damage to the hands (from fighting back), cuts and bruising on the inner lips or inner cheeks (from teeth cutting into while firm pressure is applied), hemorrhage to the face and neck(kind of nonspecific but proves the degree of force used, in this age group one would assume that with that much force the child would wake up and move themselves, often is not visible externally so fits the 'no signs of trauma' narrative), aspiration of whatever material was used to smother (i.e. fibers from the pillowcase, would imply deep breaths were attempted), etc etc

I expect you are right. (I've said similar things in earlier posts.) But 1) as you alluded, early on it was stated there were no external signs of trauma and 2) the ME stating the manner of death was homicide doesn't mean it was an intentional killing. From the link below:

"In a publication entitled A Guide for Manner of Death Classification, NAME [National Association of Medical Examiners] specifically notes “it is to be emphasized that the classification of Homicide for the purposes of death certification is a ‘neutral’ term and neither indicates nor implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes.”

So, as the link discusses, a hunter accidentally shooting another hunter thinking he was aiming at a deer can be classified as a homicide just as a 3-year old finding a loaded gun and saying "bang" when pointing it at another child and pulling the trigger is technically homicide. And in another case on WS, regardless of any later court findings Halyna Hutchins' manner of death could be classified as homicide.

Homicide: Manner of Death vs. Legal Conclusion - Forensic Resources

Like many other experts, medical examiners use terms of art which might be confusing for non-experts. The use of the term “homicide” to classify a death might confuse jurors and attorneys alike. It may, therefore, be worthwhile to take steps to ensure that a medical examiner’s testimony conveys...

forensicresources.org

MOO

 

[Fika]

I unfortunately am not surprised about the outcome. I thought about poisoning ( intentional poisoning).
Police and coroners spending a lot of the time on the case and ruling it homicide removes all the non intentional death for me.

There is never an excuse for murdering your children. Some suggested how overwhelming it might have been for mom to be home with two sick kids. There are milion ways to get help to take before deciding to kill your kids and it shouldn’t even be “ an option “ that a person takes. Imo

 

[IDK]

I unfortunately am not surprised about the outcome. I thought about poisoning ( intentional poisoning).
Police and coroners spending a lot of the time on the case and ruling it homicide removes all the non intentional death for me.

There is never an excuse for murdering your children. Some suggested how overwhelming it might have been for mom to be home with two sick kids. There are milion ways to get help to take before deciding to kill your kids and it shouldn’t even be “ an option “ that a person takes. Imo

Agree there is never an excuse for killing a child!
However, if they were intentionally killed, I think some of us are just trying to understand why it happened— though of course we may never know.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Some suggested how overwhelming it might have been for mom to be home with two sick kids.

If a crime was committed, I agree it's inexcusable. Almost all parents with 2+ children are sometimes home for quite awhile with 2+ ill children at the same time.

 

[NCWatcher]

Agree there is never an excuse for killing a child!
However, if they were intentionally killed, I think some of us are just trying to understand why it happened— though of course we may never know.

Agree. And rarely is there an excuse for killing an adult either. But that doesn't mean we don't ask what led up to a killing of an adult. It seems like very murder case on WS involves those kinds of questions and discussions. MOO

 

[ErinC]

Help was certainly available, but I wonder if she knew that. They were from another country, where there might not have been a robust system for help, so it didn't occur to ask here. Also, authorities don't always advertise what is available, and even if they do, it can be labyrinthine to apply for even if you speak English well and have lived in the US all your life. Certainly not an excuse for what (it seems) she has done, but yet another contributing factor.

 

[FromGermany1]

The title of our thread should be changed or expanded, I think.

(I reported it.)

 

[NCWatcher]

If a crime was committed, I agree it's inexcusable. Almost all parents with 2+ children are sometimes home for quite awhile with 2+ ill children at the same time.

Definitely agree there are rarely legitimate excuses for committing any kind of crime. But I don't think "almost all parents" with multiple children "sometimes" have multiple kids at home with some of the children too sick to go to school for over two weeks at a time. (According to some reports, the boy had been too sick for school since Nov 30. And the girl had been in and out of school with new symptoms of illness emerging during the same time period.) That IS pretty unusual, fortunately. It's much more usual IMO one child might get sick for a few days and as he/she is starting to get better and can shortly return to school, another child falls ill. Or all the kids are sick pretty much at one time, but not for over two weeks. So it does seem what was happening in this case was unusual. But wondering if the strain of caring for ill children contributed to what happened doesn't mean the criminal actions (if any) were excusable, but they might be somewhat more understandable.

We also don't know how long the family has been in this country. We don't know what kind of social support they had. And we don't know if either parent held particular cultural beliefs about the meaning of illness and disability in children. <modsnip: No link to information stated as fact>

Edit: See, for example

'Spirit' children of Ghana

Or

Spirit Children: Illness, Poverty, And Infanticide In Northern Ghana - Criminal Law and Criminal Justice Book Reviews

Author: Aaron R. Denham Publisher: Madison, WI: University of Wisconsin Press, 2017. 240p. Reviewer: Chima Agazue

clcjbooks.rutgers.edu

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

The title of our thread should be changed or expanded, I think.

(I reported it.)

It will be updated if/when there is an arrest.

 

[IDK]

Not really any new information, but I found this part interesting ( I may be overthinking it, though):


“Following the deaths, police said their father was cooperating with officers. The mother had to be hospitalized for emotional distress.”

Curious why they didn’t report that both parents had cooperated? It seemed as though mother had been interviewed, based on the previous information reported.

Police: No arrests yet in homicide involving 5-year-old twins in Mount Hope

Following the deaths, police said their father was cooperating with officers. The mother had to be hospitalized for emotional distress.

bronx.news12.com

 

[Googlebutts]

The twins were Gianna and George Kantanka.

Police sources said the parents are being re-interviewed. No one is in custody and no criminal charges have been filed.

5-year-old Bronx twins died by homicide, medical examiner says

Officials said the Gianna and George Kantanka were both smothered back in December in Mount Hope.

www.cbsnews.com

No charges yet but IMO there soon will be.

I think a number of people here were uncomfortable with both twins dying simultaneously but LE never described the mother as anything other than a victim, so our typing hands were tied regardless of any red flags. I felt another red flag rising when it was reported that mother was taken to the hospital. Not sure why exactly though, other than I tend to note extreme reactions in cases of the missing and dead. <shrug>

Also, in this case the parents were from Ghana, which presented some difficulties when trying to understand the mindset of a doting mother who didn’t call the doctor or 911 or take the twins to the hospital. MOO

I’d definitely need to be sedated and hospitalized if anything happened to one of my boys and they are now grown.

 

[scoodyboo]

Arrest warrant issued for mother who remains in psychiatric hospital.
Article says video of her pacing in the hallway at 5 am, same time she gave as last seeing them alive.

Police issue arrest warrant for mother of 5-year-old twins found dead in Bronx home: NYPD

Authorities say the woman is currently in a psychiatric ward.

gothamist.com

 

[MsMarple]

She told cops she took a shower and cleaned the apartment before she checked on the kids, whom she had spotted foaming at the mouth and nose hours earlier.
…
After the incident, Asamoah was “so despondent” that she was taken to a psychiatric ward, where she has been under the care of a doctor.

“At this time, we have an arrest warrant for mom,” Kenny said. “She’s back in a psych ward, [and is] not free to leave at any given time.”

Bronx mom indicted for murder in deaths of 5-year-old twin children

Gloria Asamoah, 42, is “not free to leave” a psychiatric ward she has been in and out of since the Dec. 18 deaths of her kids, Gianna and George Kantanka.

www.nydailynews.com

Mother has been in the US for about 19 years and lived in several states before moving to the Bronx with her husband of 10 years. He won’t be charged according to LE.

As soon as doctors clear her she’ll be taken into custody and charged with two counts of murder.

 

[IDK]

This news is beyond devastating, but not unexpected, IMO.

So, so sad. Rest In Peace, Gianna and George.

 

[scoodyboo]

Police: Mother faces murder charges in fatal smothering of 5-year-old twins in Mount Hope short video.
Reporter reporting from the apartment building.

 

[IDK]

“She was discharged on Thursday, arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter in both deaths, the police said”

Mother Is Charged With Murder of Twins Found Dead in the Bronx

The mother, Gloria Asamoah, had been recently hospitalized, the police said, and was discharged from a psychiatric ward before her arrest.

www.nytimes.com

“A 42-year-old woman pleaded not guilty to murder charges Friday in the deaths of her twin 5-year-olds in their Bronx home -- a case authorities initially attributed to a medical tragedy, saying there were no signs of foul play.

Gloria Asamoah was arrested Thursday, according to the Bronx district attorney's office, on six counts each of murder and manslaughter.”

“Asamoah is due back in court in July. Her interim lawyer requested a suicide watch and continued psychiatric treatment.”

Mom denies guilt in NYC twins' deaths after autopsy uncovers ‘medical tragedy' ruse

A 42-year-old woman pleaded not guilty to murder charges Friday in the deaths of her twin 5-year-olds in their Bronx home — a case authorities initially attributed to a medical tragedy, saying there were no signs of foul play. Gloria Asamoah was arrested Thursday, according to the Bronx district...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[Gemmie]

“She was discharged on Thursday, arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter in both deaths, the police said”

It still has me wondering if she poisoned them first, and when that didn't work, she smothered them to death.

 

[Alcina]

It still has me wondering if she poisoned them first, and when that didn't work, she smothered them to death.

I'm wondering about that too. It would explain their "sickness" before she smothered them.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The poor father of these children...

They came to New York for a new life for their family. You have to wonder what went wrong and, if guilty, what GA (her initials) thought was going to happen after she did what she did.