Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #8

[wecaff]

Hypothetical question to better understand the word alleged.

Can WS with more knowledge than I, please confirm the following:

Let's say a crime is committed in front of 5 police officers. The crime is clearly recorded on x5 body cams from x5 different angles, capturing the perp committing the crime on video. The perpetrator is immediately apprehended.

The evidence is irrefutable, cannot be legally challenged wrt who committed the crime and what crime was committed. But it's not yet deemed proof right? That's up to the jury/judge to decide.

The media often use the word allegedly wrt the crimes committed by the apprehended perps, to avoid libel and contempt of court.

Is Police bound by the same principles?

If so, then until the courts have found the defendant guilty of the crime, the charges against them remain allegations only, no matter how watertight the evidence appears to be.

Often I read police media statements don't use the word allegedly/alleged when declaring a perp has been charged with a crime.

 

[Sceptical]

I think what you are asking there is, is this hearing available to you , online.. if so, then no. It will not be available to you, online. You can attend the Magistrate's Court in person,, at Ballarat, I think it is.

The suspect will be making his appearance 'online'. .. that is what this announcement means. He is at the remand centre in Melbourne, and the Magistrate's court is in Ballarat, 115 klms away, which is where this crime took place. ,

It is not in the prisoners interest to transport him up from Melbourne, back to Ballarat for a hearing, when it can be done safer, and quicker, and cheaper online. Far less security needed, also. The online part of this is an internal online process, between the Remand Centre and the Court. Not a general online process.

Is this what you were asking?

Thank you, yes that answers my question. I’m not local so looks like my curiosity will not be satiated. Thanks for your help!

 

[Tweet57]

Random question. At what point are alleged perpetrator/s assets frozen? Does it vary case to case? Who decides on the decision? TIA

 

[SouthAussie]

Hypothetical question to better understand the word alleged.

Can WS with more knowledge than I, please confirm the following:

Let's say a crime is committed in front of 5 police officers. The crime is clearly recorded on x5 body cams from x5 different angles, capturing the perp committing the crime on video. The perpetrator is immediately apprehended.

The evidence is irrefutable, cannot be legally challenged wrt who committed the crime and what crime was committed. But it's not yet deemed proof right? That's up to the jury/judge to decide.

The media often use the word allegedly wrt the crimes committed by the apprehended perps, to avoid libel and contempt of court.

Is Police bound by the same principles?

If so, then until the courts have found the defendant guilty of the crime, the charges against them remain allegations only, no matter how watertight the evidence appears to be.

Often I read police media statements don't use the word allegedly/alleged when declaring a perp has been charged with a crime.

The police can charge someone with a crime (the actual charge is not alleged, it is real) ..... because they allege that the person has committed the crime in a certain way (the allegations).

A charged person is always alleged to have committed the crime, until it is proved that they are guilty or not guilty in a court of law.

imo

 

[Trooper]

Random question. At what point are alleged perpetrator/s assets frozen? Does it vary case to case? Who decides on the decision? TIA

Oy, Tweets.. This is a convoluted answer, but then , so is the question. Asset freezing is usually done in matters concerning fraud, scamming, theft, etc.. This is done, usually, ex parte, that is , by the party offended by the alleged fraudster. They make an application to the court, I think the County Court, in this instance, and the matter is heard by a judge, and orders are passed down.

In the matter of this situation, the police would apply to have his assets frozen, his car payments, his superannuation actions , his rental, if applicable. This is so he does not lose everything, eg, the car payment, assuming he is paying one off, they have to suspend the payments,. they can't repossess the car, for example.

There are a lot of variations on a theme about this situation, but that is the main thrust of it, it is VICPOL that apply to the court to freeze his assets. Whatever that may entail. . It is most usually granted, when the police apply for it. It would be a radical circumstance that the court would not grant the freezing, VICPOL being the 'offended party,' so to speak.

(edit) I forgot to add when the police do it. They will be doing any time soon. Mainly because he is not likely to get bail, when, or if, his barrister applies to the Supreme court for it. ( It can't be granted in any other court than the Supreme, if you're charged with murder ) .. So this week, next week. Pretty soon, anyways.

 

[Dotta]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed/no link/rumor>

It seems entirely reasonable from my perspective that Samantha's husband would be "on edge" regardless - his wife is missing, presumed dead. The pressure which this man must be enduring is way beyond what most of us will ever have to face IMO. Quite apart from the devastation and shock which he must surely be experiencing, he also is seeing the pain which he and Samantha's children (and other loved ones) are enduring.

IIRC when recently asked by a reporter how we was going, a phrase he used was "xxxxx" (expletive) - (unsurprisingly IMO), and then "just trying to be strong for everyone." IMO this is a brave man, doing his best in utterly dreadful circumstances, and thinking of others. The feeling of powerlessness must be immense.

IMO it may be that, seeing his children's continued distress, he's gone out to the search site again, hoping to be able to return with some positive information. Naturally it would be disappointing if the search had been called off early, and he very possibly was distressed. It does not mean however, that his relationship with Vicpol has broken down. JMO

IMO
Police never inform in detail the families of victims.

Even when the accused was arrested, only a small group of Police officers were notified to prevent the leaks.

The same situation was in Idaho4 murders.

Police liaison officer usually keeps in touch with a family with general and vague info - but that's it.

Family members of the victim are not investigators/detectives to know all sensitive details of investigation.

JMO

 

[Tweet57]

Thanks @Trooper for your response

 

[Dotta]

"Samantha Murphy search:​

Police using sniffer dogs to​

find SIM card.​

On Thursday, the force’s Chief Commissioner Shane Patton revealed police would continue searching 'around there again'
today but at a new site.

'We’ll be going to a different location but we will also use assistance from the Australian Federal Police today in technical detection dogs',
he told ABC Radio Melbourne.

'We don’t have the capacity — we are trying to get that capability — to run a dog that can detect a SIM from a mobile phone and that type of thing'.

'We still haven’t recovered her phone and her watch.

We’ll use all those specialist skills'."

New tactic in Samantha Murphy search

Police will bring dogs capable of sniffing out mobile phone SIM cards as they scour a new bushland location for the body of alleged murder victim Samantha Murphy.

www-news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Deleted member 340727]

That's a good question. To be quite honest those 2 items that we know SM had could be absolutely anywhere including the clothing and other. I considered smash and random bin disposal. Which septic system, whose house, whose property? 33 days of flushing with toilet cleaners etc. et. al. thrown down but I suspect that that or those systems and any drainage systems would have been checked--wouldn't anybody?? Maybe something has been found. Would the dogs pick it up: when we move our bowels we all pass blood, everyone does, so dogs will pick up scent anywhere to be found. I would find it hard for the dogs to differentiate between SM scent and all the other that the dogs would pick up. I suspect that the police have already located some of SM belongings and these are part of the charges. This assimilates with the silence. MOO

'Looking out for No. 2: Dogs sniff out fecal pollution​

by Wayne Parry'

Looking out for No. 2: Dogs sniff out fecal pollution

Some specially trained dogs are helping humans curb themselves.

www.google.com

I have complied with the rules of copyright of WS by providing the title of the article and the author and providing a link which is not paywalled.
Single quotation marks.
Thank you WS.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

This was a well timed posting.
“We still haven’t recovered her phone and her watch. We’ll use all those specialist skills"
Chief Commissioner Shane Patton.

This places emphasis back on what were the charges against the alleged perp. based on? DNA from where? MOO

 

[Dotta]

This was a well timed posting.
“We still haven’t recovered her phone and her watch. We’ll use all those specialist skills"
Chief Commissioner Shane Patton.

This places emphasis back on what were the charges against the alleged perp. based on? DNA from where? MOO

No body.
No watch.
No phone.

DNA must have been in a car.
There was some time between arrest and murder charge.

Not much though.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I generally do not follow news.com because it is untrustworthy. This article is dated 21 March 2024 and this information has not been released by any news media. 3 days later. Thank you for posting Dotta.

 

[epictreasure]

Indeed. I agree Nifty. I suspect that there is a lot happening that we are unaware of but the small pieces of **footage that have appeared provide a glimpse of what has occurred and one can consider that a lot more is to come. The police can't find SM's body; the alleged perp. is not cooperating and the papers will feed us more information from their sources.

Hi, is the footage the party video or is there other content around? Curious

 

[Dotta]

I generally do not follow news.com because it is untrustworthy. This article is dated 21 March 2024 and this information has not been released by any news media. 3 days later. Thank you for posting Dotta.

I have no idea of Australian Press - trustworthy vs untrustworthy.

I just punch Old Uncle Google News button

 

[louisepiglet]

IMO
Police never inform in detail the families of victims.

Even when the accused was arrested, only a small group of Police officers were notified to prevent the leaks.

The same situation was in Idaho4 murders.

Police liaison officer usually keeps in touch with a family with general and vague info - but that's it.

Family members of the victim are not investigators/detectives to know all sensitive details of investigation.

JMO

You would think that if anyone had the right to know the details of how a loved one died, it would be the family.

 

[Warshawski]

I generally do not follow news.com because it is untrustworthy. This article is dated 21 March 2024 and this information has not been released by any news media. 3 days later. Thank you for posting Dotta.

Hi wolfmoon, maybe you missed it, but it was previously reported that police were searching for SM’s phone & watch, and were bringing in the technology dog with skills to detect SIM cards etc ( they were successfully used in the search on Erin Patterson’s place : What AFP dogs found in Erin Patterson's home revealed

 

[Dotta]

You would think that if anyone had the right to know the details of how a loved one died, it would be the family.

The families are informed AFTER the fact
(if something was found).
Never BEFORE.

The family is NOT part of investigating team.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I have no idea of Australian Press - trustworthy vs untrustworthy.

I just punch Old Uncle Google News button

But Dotta so much information is plugged through the press one has to be careful about believing if it is the truth and discounting it as heresay. But in this case we have the Police Commissioner Shane Patton making a statement we can quote verbatim. The Police Commissioner Shane Patton does not state anything about the headphones nor anything about clothing of SM. Were the headphones found? Did they dislodge during the struggle? MOO
Thank you Dotta.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

Hi wolfmoon, maybe you missed it, but it was previously reported that police were searching for SM’s phone & watch, and were bringing in the technology dog with skills to detect SIM cards etc ( they were successfully used in the search on Erin Patterson’s place : What AFP dogs found in Erin Patterson's home revealed

Thank you Warshawski for this information and the link. It assists us all here in the discussion of SM.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I do not have cable TV anymore. Has the Police Commissioner Shane Patton made any statements about the disclosure of the search for her phone and her watch (SM) on any news programs or other? MOO