Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #5

[certainprocedure]

Which makes me worry even more about the correct permissions to look at SS's phone. If that isn't legally solid, they have nothing on him do they? In the Molly Tibbets case, a poster or two worried about if he was properly Mirandized. Innocently, I was positive LE had been certain to take care of that. I was wrong.

In this case, at least one person has wondered about the correct permissions to search SS's phone. Now, to me, that has become a worry.

Wasn’t it stated that he handed over his phone voluntarily? If so, they should be fine, right?

 

[ttjo]

Which makes me worry even more about the correct permissions to look at SS's phone. If that isn't legally solid, they have nothing on him do they? In the Molly Tibbets case, a poster or two worried about if he was properly Mirandized. Innocently, I was positive LE had been certain to take care of that. I was wrong.

In this case, at least one person has wondered about the correct permissions to search SS's phone. Now, to me, that has become a worry.

Noting that this is a question not a statement:
so if SS voluntarily gives them his phone and LE finds that the accidental factory reset is probable cause to search it further , they needed to get a search warrant to do that? WOW and I wonder if because he told them he factory reset it, they didnt discover it, that makes a difference too. Wouldnt that be the most terrible thing on the planet if having no search warrant made all of what they found inadmissible. When they find a video of a crime but it gets tossed b/c you didnt have a search warrant. Sometimes I hate the justice system.

 

[charminglane]

Two different interactions with random teens yesterday.
The one 15 year old did not know his house number but knew his street.
The other 15 year old did not know her own cell phone number.
I had to show her where it was located in her phone.
The interesting part is that mom standing there didn't know her own daughter's number either. As if she didn't have her listed in her contacts by her name.
Floored, and quite flabbergasted.
That is my first hand experience with some teens of today in a public library.

 

[ttjo]

Two different interactions with random teens yesterday.
The one 15 year old did not know his house number but knew his street.
The other 15 year old did not know her own cell phone number.
I had to show her where it was located in her phone.
The interesting part is that mom standing there didn't know her own daughter's number either. As if she didn't have her listed in her contacts by her name.
Floored, and quite flabbergasted.
That is my first hand experience with some teens of today in a public library.

I have custody of my niece who at 5 knew my phone number b/c of hearing me say it at grocery checkouts ( points cards) I guess I buy a lot of groceries, but there is no standard anymore. Some people, if they lose their phone, they're hooped.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Yes. The grandma is the one who said that her daughter asked SS to take her to school. Grandma Yolanda starts speaking at 1:20 here

There are a lot of translations out there that are taking liberties.

I hear

Pero mi hija trabajó la noche anterior el Domingo y parece que se levanto muy cansada y le dijo al novio que se trajerla y hasta ahí

But my daughter worked the night before, Sunday, and it seemed she got up really tired and she told her boyfriend to take her there

(to school, presumably?)

HOWEVER.... In the affidavit to police, Jenn says SS "picked her up".

Above BBM…… and I could be behind on this case at this point….. but the above translation from MS grandmother (JS mom) may be important? If the translation is accurate? And depending on when that statement was made WRT JS statement or interview:

That statement makes one wonder if SS and the daughter MS may have spent the evening after the birthday party somewhere besides JS residence? And others were aware of that?

And perhaps that is a consideration in SS timeline and movements. As MassGuy noted phone and electronics and vehicle GPS will be important to this case.

And the case seems to be possibly four segments (at least). The death of MS; recorded explicit electronic images of abuse of her; possible sharing of those images; attempts to conceal and dispose of evidence. (I thought I had read earlier that maybe some images were of an individual other than MS? I may be incorrect on that?) MOO

 

[certainprocedure]

Noting that this is a question not a statement:
so if SS voluntarily gives them his phone and LE finds that the accidental factory reset is probable cause to search it further , they needed to get a search warrant to do that? WOW and I wonder if because he told them he factory reset it, they didnt discover it, that makes a difference too. Wouldnt that be the most terrible thing on the planet if having no search warrant made all of what they found inadmissible. When they find a video of a crime but it gets tossed b/c you didnt have a search warrant. Sometimes I hate the justice system.

My guess is that they went ahead and explicitly asked if they could search it and SS, being the mastermind that he is, said yes, thinking that the factory reset would protect him. If that’s the case, then it’s admissible, no prob. In fact, under Florida law, I think just plain handing your phone over to law-enforcement is implied consent but I’m not sure about that. Here’s a lawyer’s website that talks about it a little bit. I’m currently digging through the actual statutes to get more clarity.

Choice quote from link above: “But this doesn’t mean all cell phone evidence gleaned without a warrant is inadmissible. There is a loophole: Consent. If you agree to simply hand over your phone to an officer because he or she asks, you don’t have the right to later challenge a violation of your rights. You voluntarily consented to the search.”

 

[CuriousCricket]

Noting that this is a question not a statement:
so if SS voluntarily gives them his phone and LE finds that the accidental factory reset is probable cause to search it further , they needed to get a search warrant to do that? WOW and I wonder if because he told them he factory reset it, they didnt discover it, that makes a difference too. Wouldnt that be the most terrible thing on the planet if having no search warrant made all of what they found inadmissible. When they find a video of a crime but it gets tossed b/c you didnt have a search warrant. Sometimes I hate the justice system.

Naturally, I have no idea what the technicalities are nor how convoluted the laws may be.

If he just verbally said, "Sure, here you go" and handed them the phone, adding, "Oops BTW I accidentally hit factory reset on it yesterday." He could deny giving them permission.

Let's hope enough people were around to be able to testify he volunteered.

But, yes, should this be able to be tossed because of a technicality, I would hate the justice system too. AND most likely, I worry for nothing. But I did not worry in the Molly Tibbets case and I was wrong.

 

[ttjo]

Above BBM…… and I could be behind on this case at this point….. but the above translation from MS grandmother (JS mom) may be important? If the translation is accurate? And depending on when that statement was made WRT JS statement or interview:

That statement makes one wonder if SS and the daughter MS may have spent the evening after the birthday party somewhere besides JS residence? And others were aware of that?

And perhaps that is a consideration in SS timeline and movements. As MassGuy noted phone and electronics and vehicle GPS will be important to this case.

And the case seems to be possibly four segments (at least). The death of MS; recorded explicit electronic images of abuse of her; possible sharing of those images; attempts to conceal and dispose of evidence. (I thought I had read earlier that maybe some images were of an individual other than MS? I may be incorrect on that?) MOO

early on, one translation came out and then another, all different, " Its all in the translation, it was the whole reason I brought it up, asking someone who understood Spanish to translate and not rely on A.I. These were all news clips with translations done by A.I. posted on their channel. Is there a list of approved channels?

 

[ttjo]

Naturally, I have no idea what the technicalities are nor how convoluted the laws may be.

If he just verbally said, "Sure, here you go" and handed them the phone, adding, "Oops BTW I accidentally hit factory reset on it yesterday." He could deny giving them permission.

Let's hope enough people were around to be able to testify he volunteered.

But, yes, should this be able to be tossed because of a technicality, I would hate the justice system too. AND most likely, I worry for nothing. But I did not worry in the Molly Tibbets case and I was wrong.

Let's hope that if thats the case and it gets tossed, they can prove it another way ( autopsy) as terrible as that sounds. Unfortunately that wont ever reveal the numbers.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Two different interactions with random teens yesterday.
The one 15 year old did not know his house number but knew his street.
The other 15 year old did not know her own cell phone number.
I had to show her where it was located in her phone.
The interesting part is that mom standing there didn't know her own daughter's number either. As if she didn't have her listed in her contacts by her name.
Floored, and quite flabbergasted.
That is my first hand experience with some teens of today in a public library.

In the library??? I shudder to think about the non-library inclined kids. Beyond understanding.

 

[Beekarina]

Two different interactions with random teens yesterday.
The one 15 year old did not know his house number but knew his street.
The other 15 year old did not know her own cell phone number.
I had to show her where it was located in her phone.
The interesting part is that mom standing there didn't know her own daughter's number either. As if she didn't have her listed in her contacts by her name.
Floored, and quite flabbergasted.
That is my first hand experience with some teens of today in a public library.

That's pretty wild!

The phone number I can maybe understand if it was a new one?

My kids traveled for activities and with extended family, went to summer camps, things of that nature so I made sure they knew basic information like their home address. They knew their own numbers because they used them for library cards, etc. Not only to get one, but f you forget it, you give your number.

As @ttjo just mentioned, my primary phone # they would also know from being sent on errands. i.e. "Go buy some milk" and this is my phone number for the store rewards/coupons. As I mentioned before, not sure if anything is walkable from where MS lives and/or if she was ever sent into a store on her own yet just as the kind of thing you do with kids to help foster independence. It doesn't matter though, as she was already dead so sadly could not have called for help anyway.

 

[Beekarina]

This is really pretty frightening, if you consider kids out there, in general being clueless about things like their address, how to call a family member if they were ever kidnapped and managed to get free and to a phone etc. Hopefully they would at least be able to call 911 and give some kind of useable information.

Really scary stuff. Makes me even want to refresh with the young adults in my life.

 

[certainprocedure]

This is really pretty frightening, if you consider kids out there, in general being clueless about things like their address, how to call a family member if they were ever kidnapped and managed to get free and to a phone etc. Hopefully they would at least be able to call 911 and give some kind of useable information.

Really scary stuff. Makes me even want to refresh with the young adults in my life.

My autistic child wears a bracelet with our names and phone numbers as well as a GPS/cellular enabled watch from which he can call us and other trusted adults. He knows our address he knows our phone numbers by heart. Depending on the situation, I will sometimes attach a Bluetooth tracker to the inside of his pants pocket. If all else fails, I’ve even taught him to tell people to search for mom and dad on social media since we have really unique names.

It’s the only way I can give the kid any freedom without being in a constant state of anxiety. And even then.

 

[Forest_Wood]

My guess is that they went ahead and explicitly asked if they could search it and SS, being the mastermind that he is, said yes, thinking that the factory reset would protect him. If that’s the case, then it’s admissible, no prob. In fact, under Florida law, I think just plain handing your phone over to law-enforcement is implied consent but I’m not sure about that. Here’s a lawyer’s website that talks about it a little bit. I’m currently digging through the actual statutes to get more clarity.

Choice quote from link above: “But this doesn’t mean all cell phone evidence gleaned without a warrant is inadmissible. There is a loophole: Consent. If you agree to simply hand over your phone to an officer because he or she asks, you don’t have the right to later challenge a violation of your rights. You voluntarily consented to the search.”

It's been reported he reset his phone on the same day Madeline went missing, which was Mon Feb 26. He likely reset it after she was dead, but did he reset it before or after he dumped her body. I wonder if he took his phone with him when he drove out to the country with her. Or did he leave it at home, knowing his phone would ping on different cell towers. We know he didn't want them to find the CSAM on his phone, but there would also be the GPS pings. I'd like to know what time he performed the reset that day. And even if he did reset it before he drove to Hickory Tree Road, wouldn't they still be able to trace his phone's GPS history on the cell towers after a reset? At what point did he realize he better reset his phone!
ETA: IIRC, it was reported LE asked to check his phone on Tuesday during their interviews with the two of them (assumably at the station), in which case, I'd think their request would have been on video.
MOO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

This is really pretty frightening, if you consider kids out there, in general being clueless about things like their address, how to call a family member if they were ever kidnapped and managed to get free and to a phone etc. Hopefully they would at least be able to call 911 and give some kind of useable information.

Really scary stuff. Makes me even want to refresh with the young adults in my life.

Yes it is. And we strive for our kids to know some specifics in case of a need or emergency.

At the same time…… all the electronics…… I shall stop so that I don’t get booted.

I can say it this way. Too many rely on a phone and GPS to get around. And I OFTEN do not want to go that route. And they are many times rife with errors. I can still navigate well with a map. We need to continue to teach our young ones to do the same. Because if a battery goes down, or one is outside of tower limits, or one loses or has their phone stolen……. ponder the possible outcomes.

I think there is IMO too much personal reliance on cell phones and their apps. And that can unfortunately lead to our own detriment perhaps. MOO

 

[Beekarina]

It's been reported he reset his phone on the same day Madeline went missing, which was Mon Feb 26. He likely reset it after she was dead, but did he reset it before or after he dumped her body. I wonder if he took his phone with him when he drove out to the country with her. Or did he leave it at home, knowing his phone would ping on different cell towers. We know he didn't want them to find the CSAM on his phone, but there would also be the GPS pings. I'd like to know what time he performed the reset that day. And even if he did reset it before he drove to Old Hickory Tree Road, wouldn't they still be able to trace his phone's GPS history on the cell towers after a reset? At what point did he realize he better reset his phone! MOO.

I wonder if he had a chat with some sicko on Telegram?

Everyone seems focused on SS sharing images there, which I agree he likely did as well, but I wonder if he reached out very early Monday morning to his fellow weirdos for advice?

My guess is he reset his phone shortly after using Telegram.

 

[angelainwi]

To me, the address or not knowing her way home doesn’t seem too crazy. I have ADHD too but I was diagnosed as an adult so idk if this is part of it but my spatial skills are abysmal. I generally couldn’t find my way home unless I was close enough to see it or on a very familiar route. I don’t really picture the way things are spatially related to one another in my head. I have to memorize which streets to turn left or right on and use the street signs. Until I’ve driven it enough for it to basically be on auto pilot. I’ve always known my addresses of where I’ve lived because I’m good at remembering numbers. But it wouldn’t help me any if trying to find my way. ADHD can involve a huge gap between strengths and weaknesses. She could have been a perfectly bright kid and not been able to find her way home. And maybe she never sat down to memorize her address. My childhood home was the same one the whole time and we had to recite our address in kindergarten. After that any other address I had was as an adult so I had to enter it on forms and stuff. If I’d moved somewhere at age 10 or so and my parents didn’t specifically ask me to recite the address I likely wouldn’t have known it either. JMO IME

I wonder if she knew the subdivision she lived in I think it is called "Venetian" something

 

[Beekarina]

Yes it is. And we strive for our kids to know some specifics in case of a need or emergency.

At the same time…… all the electronics…… I shall stop so that I don’t get booted.

I can say it this way. Too many rely on a phone and GPS to get around. And I OFTEN do not want to go that route. And they are many times rife with errors. I can still navigate well with a map. We need to continue to teach our young ones to do the same. Because if a battery goes down, or one is outside of tower limits, or one loses or has their phone stolen……. ponder the possible outcomes.

I think there is IMO too much personal reliance on cell phones and their apps. And that can unfortunately lead to our own detriment perhaps. MOO

Agree. Although I also completely understand using extra tech in a scenario like certainprocedure described.

I remember being on a roadtrip out west a few years ago, and my GPS kept sending me on this crazy hours long loop around Phoenix. When I realized what was happening, I turned it off and pulled out an Atlas. Otherwise, I would probably still be there, in the same hours long circle..lol. Laughing, but given the environment, it could have gone wrong really quickly in terms of gas, water, etc.

 

[ttjo]

I wonder if she knew the subdivision she lived in I think it is called "Venetian" something

Maddi was driven to school and back every day, she travelled that route 2x a day, for how many years? She may not know the numbers but I would bet that she would be able to direct someone which roads to take or ask someone for directions to landmark nearby her home and get home from there.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Here’s a lawyer’s website that talks about it a little bit. I’m currently digging through the actual statutes to get more clarity.

Choice quote from link above: “But this doesn’t mean all cell phone evidence gleaned without a warrant is inadmissible. There is a loophole: Consent. If you agree to simply hand over your phone to an officer because he or she asks, you don’t have the right to later challenge a violation of your rights. You voluntarily consented to the search.”

Wouldnt that be the most terrible thing on the planet if having no search warrant made all of what they found inadmissible. When they find a video of a crime but it gets tossed b/c you didnt have a search warrant. Sometimes I hate the justice system.

Unfortunately, there has to be a penalty for LE making illegal searches. The good news is, most LEO's know exactly when they need to stop and get a warrant. There are plenty of ways to freeze everything, and make sure evidence isn't destroyed while waiting. Exigent circumstances are another subject but it would be interesting to consider that an officer is taking a report of a missing child and begins to see a video of the child as a victim of a felony assault. I would argue that the officer must continue to watch the video as it could have information as to where the child could be found, and maybe even saved if injured or hidden somewhere.
If SS doesn't eventually plead guilty, a defense attorney would be remiss If they didn't attempt to suppress the video at trial, even with initial consent recorded on a bodycam.

MOO