Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[girlhasnoname]

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation revealed in new court records that a chest freezer was found during the excavation and opened.

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

How much more grisly can this crime get? These 5 Defendants won't be seeing the light of freedom ever again. Does OK have the DP and has there been any mention of the State seeking the DP in this case?

From the article is sounds like they killed the women (although it says not shot) and put them in a freezer and buried them 15 feet deep? Wouldn't that spot have to have been dug prior to the murders? Then they threw their bloody clothing and items they used in the hole as well.

Pure geniuses I tell you. Thank goodness criminals are so very stupid, but these top the list, there was a flashing red sign pointing directly to them. Purchasing disposable phones at Walmart = Check. Walmart and its surveillance has single handedly convicted more criminals than LE.

I feel so sorry that these victims suffered the way they did and that their families and loved ones will have to continue on in life without them. A true tragedy.

moo

 

[ClearAhead]

Not exactly criminal masterminds…

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

“A witness told the OSBI that Grice had asked him on April 17 how long DNA would last on clothing in the dirt in a hole 15 feet deep, according to one affidavit. Grice also had asked about how to get a "guy and his family" into Mexico.

The OSBI also revealed in the new documents that the Twomblys had two cellphones in the pickup they were driving at the time of their arrest. The OSBI reported "information related to locations services and phone usage" show both cellphones had been at the abduction site March 30 and then at the burial site.

Adams had purchased those cellphones and a third cellphone on Feb. 13 at a Walmart in Guymon, the OSBI reported.”

 

[Herat]

The pre-dug hole was also originally meant to hold VB's vehicle.

And now a deep freeze?

I wonder if both the car and deep freeze were original to the plan or if the deep freeze was added when the vehicle had to be left off of the highway.

I really don't understand the purpose of the deep freeze. It isn't going to hide the bodies any more than a deep dirt hole. Instead, it might have been much easier to find a large metal-containing object in a widespread search.

And then leaving what sounds like a large amount of direct physical evidence in the hole there, too. Too much rabid blood lust seems to have clouded logical thinking, all through this utterly unconscionable and loopy plan.

 

[Chimera]

@Herat : ITA, & I'm also grateful for the errors this despicable bunch made.

Evidence will have been preserved !

 

[Herat]

@Herat : ITA, & I'm also grateful for the errors this despicable bunch made.

Evidence will have been preserved !

It's a real head-scratcher as to exactly how stupid they collectively were.

As a WS regular, I certainly would not have approved this plan.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

These 5 defendents are sooo grisly, yet also sooo #@&!ing stupid. Nothing like announcing your guilt in flashing neon lights. I am still supremely glad they are this stupid. Wish they been too stupid to complete the actual murders though.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

The pre-dug hole was also originally meant to hold VB's vehicle.

And now a deep freeze?

I wonder if both the car and deep freeze were original to the plan or if the deep freeze was added when the vehicle had to be left off of the highway.

I really don't understand the purpose of the deep freeze. It isn't going to hide the bodies any more than a deep dirt hole. Instead, it might have been much easier to find a large metal-containing object in a widespread search.

And then leaving what sounds like a large amount of direct physical evidence in the hole there, too. Too much rabid blood lust seems to have clouded logical thinking, all through this utterly unconscionable and loopy plan.

Yes, I was wondering similar! Will be interested to know if that was a brand new purchased deep freezer…… with in-store video and receipts…… or, perhaps…… it has some prior history and needed to be ‘dumped’ for other reasons? Maybe some prior activities by TA and crew?

Unless maybe they thought the deep freezer would help with reducing or eliminating decomposition odor? But I thought IIRC that they placed the victims and items at the ‘dirtiest’ spot of that farm? (IANAL or a farmer….. so not sure of the correct terminology. But for the record, I have mucked a barn or two….. long time back.) MOO

 

[Chimera]

These 5 defendents are sooo grisly, yet also sooo #@&!ing stupid. Nothing like announcing your guilt in flashing neon lights. I am still supremely glad they are this stupid. Wish they been too stupid to complete the actual murders though.

Bolded by me.
Ita.
If only that that were so ...

I am heartbroken for the minors involved who have lost precious parents.

 

[Chimera]

… or, perhaps…… it has some prior history and needed to be ‘dumped’ for other reasons ? Maybe some prior activities by TA and crew ?

Snipped for focus.
Agreed !

Hmmm.....
I mean -- one doesn't graduate to murdering two innocent people, without some other serious and nefarious deeds committed in the past, right ?
Pretty brutal and calloused.
Omo.

 

[vls12345]

I wonder if they put them in the freezer to suffocate them? Torture them a bit, tape them up, then put them in the freezer and bury them alive to suffocate. This entire case is horrific. MOO.

 

[Odeto BJ]

RE: The Freezer...Besides being a makeshift coffin, its entirely possible that some substance or chemical was put into the freezer along with the bodies to cause DNA decay, accelerate decomposition or other intentions even more unmentionable. For at least some of those purposes: A big plastic pallet liner would have served just as well and not presented a target to metal detection and similar.

Speculation only, and may give the defendants too much credit....

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

RE: The Freezer...Besides being a makeshift coffin, its entirely possible that some substance or chemical was put into the freezer along with the bodies to cause DNA decay, accelerate decomposition or other intentions even more unmentionable. For at least some of those purposes: A big plastic pallet liner would have served just as well and not presented a target to metal detection and similar.

Speculation only, and may give the defendants too much credit....

Yes, so very true. Sad to contemplate. And for those that have seen it Breaking Bad and the bathtub scene. ‘Yes I told you to buy the cheap plastic drum!….. ok I will stop now. And if you haven’t seen it, do watch Netflix Breaking Bad, El Camino, and then Better Call Saul. In that order IMO. MOO

 

[al66pine]

A Buried Freezer. Metal Detectors. “DNA Decay?”

RE: The Freezer...Besides being a makeshift coffin, its entirely possible that some substance or chemical was put into the freezer along with the bodies to cause DNA decay, accelerate decomposition or other intentions even more unmentionable. For at least some of those purposes: A big plastic pallet liner would have served just as well and not presented a target to metal detection and similar.

@Odeto BJ Thx for your post.
Good point about alternatives to freezer for containing bodies. But placing bodies in a freezer w intact door seals would contain (imo) some of odors which might otherwise attract predators prompting them to dig & uncover bodies, at least more so than a plastic pallet liner.

I may have read it & forgotten, but did LE release any info about using metal detectors in locating these bodies? IIRC the landowner provided info to LE about the unusual stmts from & behavior of his pasture-land's lessee.
If the hole was 15 feet deep (as the depth Grice allegedly mentioned), would an ordinary “hobbyist” metal detector signal a freezer that deep? Or a more sophisticated detector that LE, or military, or archeologists would have & use? * Or ground penetrating radar or other specialized equipment? IDK.

Decay of remains? In some death investigations, remains recovered years or decades later are identified by DNA. True sometimes even w only skeletal remains & no soft tissue intact.

“DNA Decay?” I understand certain substances or chemicals could accelerate decomposition of remains, but IDK if any substance or chemical could cause "DNA decay" totally destroying or "erasing" DNA, preventing identification.
jmo
_____________________________
*These are pretty general articles.

How Deep Can a Metal Detector Search?

Learn how deep can a metal detector go in this article. Improve your detecting depth with these tips.

www.metaldetector.com

Metal detector - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ClearAhead]

The pre-dug hole was also originally meant to hold VB's vehicle.

And now a deep freeze?

I wonder if both the car and deep freeze were original to the plan or if the deep freeze was added when the vehicle had to be left off of the highway.

I really don't understand the purpose of the deep freeze. It isn't going to hide the bodies any more than a deep dirt hole. Instead, it might have been much easier to find a large metal-containing object in a widespread search.

And then leaving what sounds like a large amount of direct physical evidence in the hole there, too. Too much rabid blood lust seems to have clouded logical thinking, all through this utterly unconscionable and loopy plan.

I’m wondering how they intended to transport the two bodies to the burial site. Although nothing would surprise me, planning to place them with duct-taped mouths, arms and legs visible in a truck box would seem risky as any passing truck driver might notice. If not towing Veronica’s SUV with the bodies inside (which obviously didn’t happen for reasons unknown), maybe the plan was to transport them in a truck box hauling a deep freeze so it wouldn’t look too suspicious? But then why not just use a tarp? Depending on autopsy findings, suffocation could be involved .

It’s as if some components of the plot were totally ridiculous while other elements overly complicated.

JMO

 

[Odeto BJ]

A Buried Freezer. Metal Detectors. “DNA Decay?”

@Odeto BJ Thx for your post.
Good point about alternatives to freezer for containing bodies. But placing bodies in a freezer w intact door seals would contain (imo) some of odors which might otherwise attract predators prompting them to dig & uncover bodies, at least more so than a plastic pallet liner.

I may have read it & forgotten, but did LE release any info about using metal detectors in locating these bodies? IIRC the landowner provided info to LE about the unusual stmts from & behavior of his pasture-land's lessee.
If the hole was 15 feet deep (as the depth Grice allegedly mentioned), would an ordinary “hobbyist” metal detector signal a freezer that deep? Or a more sophisticated detector that LE, or military, or archeologists would have & use? * Or ground penetrating radar or other specialized equipment? IDK.

Decay of remains? In some death investigations, remains recovered years or decades later are identified by DNA. True sometimes even w only skeletal remains & no soft tissue intact.

“DNA Decay?” I understand certain substances or chemicals could accelerate decomposition of remains, but IDK if any substance or chemical could cause "DNA decay" totally destroying or "erasing" DNA, preventing identification.
jmo
_____________________________

At the least, the presence of the freezer tells us a little more about the hole: You indicated Grice related that it was 15 feet deep and a chest freezer that would contain (2) bodies is not one of the smallest ones: as with most appliances it would have to go through a 29 inch door opening but we can reasonably presume it was at least 54 inches long so we know the hole had to be at least 2-1/2 feet by 5 feet. Some posters have presumed it was dug to accept the Kia but I have not seen indication that it was that large; possible I missed it.

There was considerable discussion in the Idaho 4 forum here about removing or contaminating DNA evidence. Some of those posters were concerned that disseminating certain information would be enabling to future criminals. 10ofRods certainly suggested that readily available cleaners and disinfectants would contaminate skin cell DNA to the point it was not legally useful; dependent to some degree on the original source. So applying some ozone-containing bleaches would contaminate skin cells badly enough that the DNA sequencing would be challenged but to deal with hair, something stronger was needed. And something stronger still for bone and marrow.

Chemicals that accelerate decay and destroy tissue are well known though not all are readily available in bulk quantity. Dahmer used sulphuric acid at about 40% concentration and some of his victims were never identified...there are photos on the web of what the investigators encountered when they took the loose lids off those drums. Presumably there was no DNA in those drums either, because to date there are still unidentified victims.

I will indicate I used "metal detection" rather than "detector" in referenced post but the typical hobbyist MD will not get much deeper than 20 inches. A 2 box transmitting metal detector can pick up solid metal objects the size of a softball at depths to 150 feet. Ground penetrating radar would detect both the perimeter of the hole as disturbed earth; and also the presence of a large cavity in the hole; as well as the shape of the cavity. That technique does not distinguish specifically any metal it "sees" but graphs the contrast in soil densities or soil voids so the freezer would have similar signature to a coffin. Both methods would find a freezer at depth of 15 feet though the operator of such equipment has to be more skilled and experienced than the typical "coin hound". And there are other technologies...the FBI was involved and you can safely bet they know a thousand times more than I do about the specifics of such methods and equipment. As reference:

The Best Two Box and Deep Seeking Metal Detectors

Exploring the possibilities of metal detecting is fun but there is only so much that can be done without a professional metal detector. Normal metal detectors are good for finding one or two small objects at a time. Professional metal detectors, on the other hand, are great for finding those...

kellycodetectors.com

ETA: Skin Cell

 

[tlcya]

unless the point of burial in the freezer was to make sure a living victim(s) had enough time to suffer for their "sins" before dying I cannot for the life of me figure the use of the freezer in this mess of a crime. There is a reason the ME report is sealed to the public. Wondering if the freezer has anything to do with that. SPECULATION ONLY

 

[charminglane]

Maybe the freezer is the only large locking box these dimwits could think of.

 

[Cool Cats]

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation revealed in new court records that a chest freezer was found during the excavation and opened.

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

OMG

Seized as evidence at the burial site were Wrangler blue jeans, sweatshirts, T-shirts, a black jacket, cloth gloves, ball caps, duct tape and and a sheathed black KA-BAR knife, the new records reveal. All were described as "with possible blood."

Also seized were a black saw handle, two ratchet straps, a "black taser/flashlight" and "electrical cord and small black tape."

 

[Cool Cats]

Two ratchet straps were recovered and I have a theory they were used to hold the freezer on the
blue flatbed truck and keep the freezer door shut. The other murder items used could have been tossed into the bed of the blue and gray chevrolet pickup truck. The Twombly's drove these 2 vehicles.

These are just examples of ratchet straps ....

The Ultimate Ratchet Straps Guide - Shippers Supplies

The Ultimate Ratchet Straps Guide to know how to fasten and secure cargo. Tips on where to keep your tie downs, how to store your straps, and step by step instructions on how to use them!

www.shipperssupplies.com

 

[Ksfarmer8]

OMG

Seized as evidence at the burial site were Wrangler blue jeans, sweatshirts, T-shirts, a black jacket, cloth gloves, ball caps, duct tape and and a sheathed black KA-BAR knife, the new records reveal. All were described as "with possible blood."

Also seized were a black saw handle, two ratchet straps, a "black taser/flashlight" and "electrical cord and small black tape."

All the following is my opinion.
OMG is exactly how I felt about all the gory details.
IMO, the burial hole was made to bury the car and and the freezer was a poor second choice.
I understand the burial hole was made the day prior to the abduction and it would be an easy job for a skid steer to dig the hole in short order. Covering the hole with a SUV in it would have taken but a few minutes.
It makes sense that the car was to disappear as that would indicate the pair had just vanished into thin air. That plan went awry when the women fought back and the key fob for the SUV was probably lost eliminating the possibility of driving the SUV to the burial site. So they had to leave the car at the abduction site. That was their first major mistake.
Most folks do not understand how quickly a skid steer can dig a large hole. That is what they are made for. About every farm in our community has a skid steer.
Every PU has a set of ratchet straps with it but rarely does one see a freezer in the bed of the truck!!
Just my opinion and 2 cents.