Decomp smell **REVISIT**

[McDonough]

I have never smelled human decomp and surely hope I never do. What's interesting is that my brother died in his bed in an apt. building in December (5 years ago) and was found after 2 days. When my mother went to clean out the apt after his funeral a few days later she said she did not detect any odor. Isn't that strange?

My hubby is a funeral director so I asked him about your experience. He said that if you live in an area of the country that has a cold winter and the heat in your brother's apartment was not on very warm it is possible that the cold weather kept his body from decomposing at the normal rate.

Unfortunately because of his job hubby has also had quite a few experiences with badly decomposed bodies and he has said that without a doubt that human decomposition is the worst smell he has ever encountered and it is one that a person could never forget. Also, if a badly decomposed body is in an enclosed area for any period of time that the smell is practically impossible to remove from any porous surfaces in the room.

If anyone has any specific questions I would be happy to ask him if he had any insight!

 

[Jennerbear]

Asked my hubby about this - I know he and another boy discovered a dead body when he was younger in a car alongside the road. Also, he lived on a farm and was used to dead animals around. He said that there is NO smell like it... no animal smells like it... no garbage smells like it... nothing. It is a smell all it's own. My BROTHER works for the electric company and went to a ladies house who was complaining about a power problem. Well, he had been a volunteer officer for a while and had come across some NASTY things. He said that when he checked this woman's power - she had a forgotten bag of decomposing lamg shanks that had been sitting there for a week or so. He said that of all the dead smells he has smelled - THAT is the closest to human decomp - but still isn't the same.

On Mythbusters, they took the "myth" that if a body is left in a car you will never be able to sell the car. Well, they had a corvette and took a pig in it (which if you watch CSI they use all the time for human comparison experiments). They left the pig in for a month (??) and then stripped it clean and had a crime scene cleanup guy advise them. They could NOT get that smell out. They did sell the car eventually but everyone that came to see it was sicking out big time.

My dad was an EMT for years and I'm going to ask him about it. We don't talk very much so this email about dead body smell might seem a little odd out of the blue lol.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Maggot milkshake
Beyond the all-important "date-of-death" question, forensic entomologists may also reveal where a suspect has traveled -- if insect larvae appear on muddy boots or vehicles.

Oval eggs rest in brown, stringy messCollect 'em all! Maggots can help date a corpse.
Photo: Dept. of Agriculture of Western Australia

Flies might also answer an embarrassing question after you are gone: What drugs were ya taking? You might hope to take evidence of your personal failings to the grave, but what if it could implicate the bad guy? Help is on the way from Virginia Commonwealth University, where scientists are working on, what else, the "maggot milkshake."

The principle is simple, VCU toxicology graduate student Michelle Peace wrote in 2002. "You are what you eat. So if the body had taken any type of drugs prior to death, and the maggots are eating on that body, then the drugs are going to wind up in the maggots."

 

[shoelace]

unfortunately, i am a bit of an expert on the smell of decomposing humans. i don't even know how many times i have smelled them, but i do know this... once you've smelled a decomposing body, you know forever what it's like.

i'm a paramedic in san francisco and have to pronounce death somewhat often. no matter what the scene is, no matter how obvious the death, police cannot pronounce someone dead... i have to.

so here's the deal... this smell is nothing like rotting meat that you might have in a car. there's no pizza in the world that can mimic this smell... in fact, this scent is so unique that i can easily recall, as i'm typing, just what it's like. weirdly enough, it's a little sweet. it's also a bit rancid. it's appalling until you get used to it. it varies in strength secondary to time and temperature.

what makes that point so pithy is that ga was once a homicide investigator. when he smelled his trunk, i can tell you that he knew 100% that this was the scent of a decomposing body. i can tell you with absolute certainty that if i was near that trunk, i would know if it came from a person or not. 100%.

most unfortunate indeed. this is why ga is the most tortured person dealing with this right now. because he knows she was in there.

 

[EtherealGirl]

I had a small freezer about the size of a dorm frig. The power went out and it was full of meat. The smell OMG the smell was the most horrible thing I have ever smelled. It was only about 24 hours and maggots were starting to show up. I have never been so sick in my life from a smell. We could not get it to the trash fast enough. I cannot imagine how she could have driven around with a dead body for days. She must have done it just putting it out of her mind like she did killing Caylee. She has some kind of mind control that is for sure.

A decomposing body smells even worse, and it is almost impossible to get the smell out of anything it touches. It lingers on your clothes and about the only thing that can filter that smell is Vicks Vapor Rub and you know how strong that stuff smells and it doesn't even combat it completely. The smell eventually penetrates the Vicks.

I can't understand how she could stand it either, especially knowing who it was, and how she got there.

God bless Caylee. I hope she did not suffer (much). I have a friend that worked the Susan Smith case and was there when they pulled the car from the lake. Everyone knows, I am sure, that the little boys were holding hands, because it was on the news.

My friend said he believes that in a situation like that..God sends Angels to surround the child and just take it away. That really is a lovely thought, but I have seen too much to believe that is true.

 

[Pink Panther]

Maggot milkshake
Beyond the all-important "date-of-death" question, forensic entomologists may also reveal where a suspect has traveled -- if insect larvae appear on muddy boots or vehicles.

Oval eggs rest in brown, stringy messCollect 'em all! Maggots can help date a corpse.
Photo: Dept. of Agriculture of Western Australia

Flies might also answer an embarrassing question after you are gone: What drugs were ya taking? You might hope to take evidence of your personal failings to the grave, but what if it could implicate the bad guy? Help is on the way from Virginia Commonwealth University, where scientists are working on, what else, the "maggot milkshake."

The principle is simple, VCU toxicology graduate student Michelle Peace wrote in 2002. "You are what you eat. So if the body had taken any type of drugs prior to death, and the maggots are eating on that body, then the drugs are going to wind up in the maggots."

She left her boots in the trunk as well. We haven't heard anything about them yet either. Also - I read somewhere that sometimes it is possible to retrieve DNA and other info from items that have been washed. If LE did manage to retrieve the correct pair of grey slacks - they might have also been able to glean something from them...

Unfortunately, I am convinced that those grey pants (and the white shirt) she wore the day she was indicted are the very same ones that she wore the day she left the house with Caylee. KC seems to get a kick out of this kind of thing - like wearing the stolen white rimmed glasses...etc...

MOO

 

[Jennerbear]

My friend said he believes that in a situation like that..God sends Angels to surround the child and just take it away. That really is a lovely thought, but I have seen too much to believe that is true.

Well in the Bible God took Stephen to heaven before he died. We never know.

 

[magic-cat]

Well in the Bible God took Stephen to heaven before he died. We never know.

Stephen was the exception and not the rule...I HOPE that Caylee was one of God's exceptions, and that she WAS swept up into the wings of angels and never had to suffer...

 

[magic-cat]

OK, I have posted part of this before (I thought it was on this thread, but can't find it now) Don't know how much this will help, but here goes...My first son died of SIDS when he was almost 11 months old in 1974. I went into his room early that morning and knew immediatly something was wrong for 2 reasons, the first being his little head would always pop up when he heard me coming and a slight but noticeable distinct scent. Not "bad", but unlike I had ever smelled before or since, but will NEVER forget. I had checked on him in the middle of the night, so it could not have been more than 3-4 hours and maybe not that, I had no way of knowing. (which was one of the hardest things because then you begin the what ifs) I can't describe it because there is nothing to compare it to, but there has been times over the years when I have caught a waft of something similar and it would stop me in my tracks. (but never knew where it came from) From my experience, even though it was a short length of time it would definitely be unmistakable.

(((HUGS TO YOU)))...
I am so sorry for your loss. An 11 month old child lost to SIDS must have been a complete nightmare for you and I am so sorry that you had to go through that. My sister lost a baby to SIDS when she was only 5 weeks old and it completely destroyed her, so I cannot even imagine the pain that you must have siuffered and likely still do. I sincerely thank you for sharing that with us, and my heartfelt prayers of comfort and peace are yours. (((HUGS AGAIN)))...

 

[magic-cat]

My hubby is a funeral director so I asked him about your experience. He said that if you live in an area of the country that has a cold winter and the heat in your brother's apartment was not on very warm it is possible that the cold weather kept his body from decomposing at the normal rate.

Unfortunately because of his job hubby has also had quite a few experiences with badly decomposed bodies and he has said that without a doubt that human decomposition is the worst smell he has ever encountered and it is one that a person could never forget. Also, if a badly decomposed body is in an enclosed area for any period of time that the smell is practically impossible to remove from any porous surfaces in the room.

If anyone has any specific questions I would be happy to ask him if he had any insight!

Ask him if the smell would have "clung" to the gas cans that were sealed up in the trunk and if the things that it did permeate would be capable of "tranferring" the smell to another location: ie: gas cans sat in grass in yard after the fact.

 

[DeltaDawn]

She left her boots in the trunk as well. We haven't heard anything about them yet either. Also - I read somewhere that sometimes it is possible to retrieve DNA and other info from items that have been washed. If LE did manage to retrieve the correct pair of grey slacks - they might have also been able to glean something from them...

Unfortunately, I am convinced that those grey pants (and the white shirt) she wore the day she was indicted are the very same ones that she wore the day she left the house with Caylee. KC seems to get a kick out of this kind of thing - like wearing the stolen white rimmed glasses...etc...

MOO

Casey's slacks and shoes, and boots were not in the trunk of the car. They were found on the floor in the back seat of the car per the docs filed by LE earlier.

 

[Unsolved]

Sorry if the following was posted here previously (before I joined WS). I did a search and didn't see it, so here goes.

In your opinion would the smell still be unbearable on August 4?

Because there was a report on the local news and a small story in the August 6 Orlando Sentinel that really bothered me at the time. It was a story about a terribly foul stench at OIA (Orlando Airport). They suspected that it was dead rodents (this had happened before), and were going to have the cleaning crews out to clean to try and rid the smell.

The portions of the story that bothered me the most were:

ORLANDO--Airport-maintenance crews were called to Orlando International Airport's Airside 1 on Tuesday after U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents complained of a foul odor in the area. Ron Lewis, OIA's director of airport operations, said a team of airport workers checked ceilings, offices and mechanical rooms but were unable to find the source of the smell. Lewis said there could have been any number of possible sources, such as mildew. But the stench also "may have been that of deceased pests," said Zachary Mann, a Customs and Border Protection spokesman.

Since we know Casey HAD been at the airport to pick up Amy, could she have planted something there? Anyone familiar with this part of the airport know if there are there lockers there, etc. where she could have stored a backpack (with something in it), for instance?

Lewis said the airport planned to send crews overnight to check for the source of the odor and scrub the area. Mann said his agency was so pleased with the airport's response that "I don't want to make a stink out of it."

When I saw this I did email the OS writer (Jason Garcia) and also the tip line and voiced my concerns. I asked if they couldn't bring a cadaver dog to the airport scene just to see if there were any hits there. I don't know if a dog would alert to dead rodents, but I really hope someone in LE did check this out.

Of course it probably was some dead rats in traps, and I wish I could just let it go, but it has bothered me ever since.

 

[Laneymae]

Sorry if the following was posted here previously (before I joined WS). I did a search and didn't see it, so here goes.

In your opinion would the smell still be unbearable on August 4?

Because there was a report on the local news and a small story in the August 6 Orlando Sentinel that really bothered me at the time. It was a story about a terribly foul stench at OIA (Orlando Airport). They suspected that it was dead rodents (this had happened before), and were going to have the cleaning crews out to clean to try and rid the smell.

The portions of the story that bothered me the most were:

ORLANDO--Airport-maintenance crews were called to Orlando International Airport's Airside 1 on Tuesday after U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents complained of a foul odor in the area. Ron Lewis, OIA's director of airport operations, said a team of airport workers checked ceilings, offices and mechanical rooms but were unable to find the source of the smell. Lewis said there could have been any number of possible sources, such as mildew. But the stench also "may have been that of deceased pests," said Zachary Mann, a Customs and Border Protection spokesman.

Since we know Casey HAD been at the airport to pick up Amy, could she have planted something there? Anyone familiar with this part of the airport know if there are there lockers there, etc. where she could have stored a backpack (with something in it), for instance?

Lewis said the airport planned to send crews overnight to check for the source of the odor and scrub the area. Mann said his agency was so pleased with the airport's response that "I don't want to make a stink out of it."

When I saw this I did email the OS writer (Jason Garcia) and also the tip line and voiced my concerns. I asked if they couldn't bring a cadaver dog to the airport scene just to see if there were any hits there. I don't know if a dog would alert to dead rodents, but I really hope someone in LE did check this out.

Of course it probably was some dead rats in traps, and I wish I could just let it go, but it has bothered me ever since.

My bold ~

Did they bring a cadaver dog to your location?

 

[DotsEyes]

According to Amy H., CA and GA smelled the odor at the impound and were terrified that they would open the trunk and find either Caylee or Casey in the trunk.

By the way, I see the defense lining up to challenge the science surrounding the air samples taken from the car and tested by The Body Farm. Let me just say this: we have been testing air samples for decades at the very least and rely on them for the polution reports, the heath conditions of working places etc. Using air "sniffers" is not knew science, but rather perhaps a new application to an established one by using the science to detect decomposition gases rather than pollutants.

I hope they don't make total jackasses of themselves by trying to debuke the science of air sniffers and I sure hope the A's are not putting all their eggs in this basket. They are all in for a rude awakening.

By the way are sub-leases of apartments allowed in Florida? KC seems to think so, at least that is what Juliette was doing with her old digs - per KC.

 

[impatientredhead]

According to Amy H., CA and GA smelled the odor at the impound and were terrified that they would open the trunk and find either Caylee or Casey in the trunk.

By the way, I see the defense lining up to challenge the science surrounding the air samples taken from the car and tested by The Body Farm. Let me just say this: we have been testing air samples for decades at the very least and rely on them for the polution reports, the heath conditions of working places etc. Using air "sniffers" is not knew science, but rather perhaps a new application to an established one by using the science to detect decomposition gases rather than pollutants.

I hope they don't make total jackasses of themselves by trying to debuke the science of air sniffers and I sure hope the A's are not putting all their eggs in this basket. They are all in for a rude awakening.

By the way are sub-leases of apartments allowed in Florida? KC seems to think so, at least that is what Juliette was doing with her old digs - per KC.

The defense team's forensic hired gun is on record saying the Body Farm's air test is a solid piece of forensics. That will make it difficult to challenge the technology with a straight face. This was before he was hired by the defense

GRACE: Joining me right now is a highly renowned forensic scientist. Lawrence Kobilinsky joining us out of our New York studios. Dr. Koby, thank you for being with us. Koby, explain to me the artificial nose and how air samples can now be used as evidence. .

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Sure, Nancy. Well, what happens when a body decomposes is that there is metabolism, a breakdown of existing substances -- fat, protein -- and many volatile substances are created. Putrecine (ph), cadaverine, methanol, carbon dioxide hydrogen sulfide, 450 different compounds have been found in a decomposing body. Well, all you need to do is sample the air. We have instrumental analysis, referred to as gas chromatography/mass spectometry (ph), as well as high performance liquid chromatography -- fancy names. But essentially, we can detect all of these components in the gas.

And there are libraries that are digitized in a reference library in the instrument, and these things can be identified. And so this is a reliable way of determining if there is decomposition. Bill Bess (ph) was responsible for creating "the body farm," and crime people, criminalists, go there to study these kinds of things. He`s probably got one of the few labs in the United States that does this kind of work. Normally, it`s done on fish and other decaying substances. The Department of Agriculture is interested in this kind of procedure. But on human decomposition, this is a rare kind of procedure, but it`s a valid one.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: Unfortunately, I am convinced that those grey pants (and the white shirt) she wore the day she was indicted are the very same ones that she wore the day she left the house with Caylee. KC seems to get a kick out of this kind of thing - like wearing the stolen white rimmed glasses...etc...

Was wondering the exact same thing, ie could she possibly be flaunting THE grey pinstriped pants... oy...

 

[TexasLil]

The defense team's forensic hired gun is on record saying the Body Farm's air test is a solid piece of forensics. That will make it difficult to challenge the technology with a straight face. This was before he was hired by the defense

GRACE: Joining me right now is a highly renowned forensic scientist. Lawrence Kobilinsky joining us out of our New York studios. Dr. Koby, thank you for being with us. Koby, explain to me the artificial nose and how air samples can now be used as evidence. .

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Sure, Nancy. Well, what happens when a body decomposes is that there is metabolism, a breakdown of existing substances -- fat, protein -- and many volatile substances are created. Putrecine (ph), cadaverine, methanol, carbon dioxide hydrogen sulfide, 450 different compounds have been found in a decomposing body. Well, all you need to do is sample the air. We have instrumental analysis, referred to as gas chromatography/mass spectometry (ph), as well as high performance liquid chromatography -- fancy names. But essentially, we can detect all of these components in the gas.

And there are libraries that are digitized in a reference library in the instrument, and these things can be identified. And so this is a reliable way of determining if there is decomposition. Bill Bess (ph) was responsible for creating "the body farm," and crime people, criminalists, go there to study these kinds of things. He`s probably got one of the few labs in the United States that does this kind of work. Normally, it`s done on fish and other decaying substances. The Department of Agriculture is interested in this kind of procedure. But on human decomposition, this is a rare kind of procedure, but it`s a valid one.

I believe this will be a powerful piece of evidence for the defense. At first I thought the body farm concept to be repulsive but I'm glad they established this science. Next to DNA this will probably be the strongest argument in the case.

 

[Unsolved]

My bold ~

Did they bring a cadaver dog to your location?

I don't know if they ever followed up on this - I never saw any local reports of anyone (either LE or searchers) actually checking the portion of the airport where the foul odor complaint was made. I wish they would have done at least a walkthrough with a cadaver dog, just in case, kwim?

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Did Casey cut her hair during the time she is unaccounted for...Does the decomp smell cause someone to do that if they have been exposed to the odor for hours on end?

 

[YellowDog]

In the building where I lease my office spaces, we had something die in between the walls or above the ceilings. It was the vilest thing I've ever smelled and my landlord and the exterminator tried everything to get rid of the odor. It lingered for weeks. I even asked my landlord if he thought a burgler could have come in from the roof and died up there in the space above the ceiling. The exterminator finally said he thought it was a dead rat because he saw some signs of rats on the roof. The building is in an industrial area. My question is, would the smell of a dead human body be about the same or even worse? If the answer is worse, I can't even imagine it because this smell was the most horrible thing I've ever smelled. Does anyone know the answer?