Legal and Law Questions - * No Discussion *

[danisisa]

Also, how is that this country protects the rights of criminals when they have violated the rights of their victims?

 

[AZlawyer]

Butting in...
Isn't Arizona one of the states that differentiates between confinement for punishment vs. treatment when determining credit for time served? I'd have thought "no".

Well, you get credit for any time that you are in custody by reason of the charges against you. No credit for, e.g., treatment required by probation or civil commitment to protect society. But I believe restoration time counts as being in custody by reason of the charges against you, because the only purpose of the restoration is to get you well enough to stand trial.

hi az... so now that she's been found incompetent, and maybe/maybe not restorable (we'll know in august), what happens? the below article says they will have to DROP charges against her if found not restorable?? so she will be free to go? spend some time in a hospital, maybe recover, and walk as a free person because she was incompetent when she maybe killed someone??? shocking...

if this is the way it works, wouldn't all murderers act insane, plead insanity and skip trial, get freed, spend some time in a hospital, and then start over and then maybe kill someone again cuz... they can get away with it? after all, they did it cuz they were 'incompetent' right? i actually hope she really went mad after she did this to her son, that would be justice in a way. but if she was faking it... or recovers right after the charges are dropped... then does that mean she is above the law??

Superior Court spokesman Vincent Funari said there will be another hearing August 12 to decide the length and conditions of the rehabilitative process, which could take up to nine months.

If after that time, doctors are unable to restore her to competency, a judge must drop charges against her and commit her to state hospital.


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/03/20100603tempe-baby-garbriel-mother.html

Wait... she WAS found restorable...I think. :waitasec: Or do you mean she will maybe/maybe not actually get "restored" to competency? If she actually can't get "restored" in the prescribed time period, then charges will be dropped. But the statutes seem to say the time period is 15-21 mos., not 9 mos. I don't know where the 9 mos. came from in that article--unless the doctors who examined her said that they believed she could be restored in 9 mos.

I believe the charges are dropped "without prejudice" even if a defendant is found incompetent to stand trial and cannot be restored. Thus, they could be refiled if the statute of limitations has not passed. For murder, I believe there is no statute of limitations in any state, so a murderer could not "get away with it" through the method you suggest.

Keep in mind there has been no finding that she was incompetent, much less insane, when whatever happened to Gabriel happened. And I seriously don't think she was incompetent to stand trial back at the first hearing where she appeared and asked about getting a lawyer, etc. Back then, and in the recorded conversation with TPS and the reporter, I thought she showed clear and logical thinking. This incompetence to stand trial has developed within the last few months IMHO.

Supposedly it is "impossible" to fake incompetency. Whatever. I think I could do it. :crazy: But not for 15-21 months.

AZ Lawyer....Now that EJ has been found incompetent to stand trial, why hasn't TPS been charged with taking advantage of a vulnarable adult and abuse. She obviously facilitated this whole thing and admitted in the phone conversation that she told EJ to go to a shelter. Also, how is EJ considered incompetent when she admitted that everything TPS told her to do was illegal.

Why are the courts not concerned with where Gabriel is? It seens all they are worried about is making sure TPS and EJ have due processs, but are not recognizing the rights of G?

First of all, there has been no finding that EJ was incompetent back in Dec. 2009 or any other time period before the day of her examination. Second, incompetence to stand trial is not the same thing as being a "vulnerable adult" for purposes of the vulnerable adult statute. Third, there are lots more elements to the vulnerable adult statute, and they are not present here.

EJ's knowledge that things were illegal (did she admit this?) does IMO prove that she was not "insane" at that time. But insanity and incompetence to stand trial are not the same thing. Also, she has only been found incompetent to stand trial NOW, as I mentioned above. She might have been perfectly competent to stand trial until, let's say, a month or so back when she started thinking the jail was feeding her worms.

The court is definitely concerned about where Gabriel is. It would be easier to answer your question if you could tell me what you think the court could/should do to find him.

 

[kissdegirl]

Hi AZ! Thank you for your above post..the button is clearly not enough! You're the best and I am so thankful to have your input here!

I am wondering, could SAPD wait to file charges until they see the outcome in AZ, if they were to file any charges against EJ?
I am wondering if they had an idea the competency would come into question in AZ, so they would want to wait and see if/when EJ is restored before filing charges? If she were charged in SA, then would an incompetent and non-restorable in AZ mean their charges would have to be dropped too?

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZ! Thank you for your above post..the button is clearly not enough! You're the best and I am so thankful to have your input here!

I am wondering, could SAPD wait to file charges until they see the outcome in AZ, if they were to file any charges against EJ?
I am wondering if they had an idea the competency would come into question in AZ, so they would want to wait and see if/when EJ is restored before filing charges? If she were charged in SA, then would an incompetent and non-restorable in AZ mean their charges would have to be dropped too?

No, Texas would follow its own procedures and rules about competency and restorability. I think they are not filing charges because the Arizona charges cover the custody-related issues, and unless they have real proof Gabriel was killed they have nothing else to add.

 

[iluvmua]

If All charges were dropped against Elizabeth, would she be free to roam the streets or would she be in a mental hospital?

 

[kissdegirl]

If All charges were dropped against Elizabeth, would she be free to roam the streets or would she be in a mental hospital?

This is from Angel Who Cares in another thread. HTH.

Superior Court spokesman Vincent Funari said there will be another hearing August 12 to decide the length and conditions of the rehabilitative process, which could take up to nine months. If after that time, doctors are unable to restore her to competency, a judge must drop charges against her and commit her to state hospital.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/03/20100603tempe-baby-garbriel-mother.html

 

[iluvmua]

This is from Angel Who Cares in another thread. HTH.


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/03/20100603tempe-baby-garbriel-mother.html

Thank You

 

[DaneBramage]

I have to ask this question AZLawyer. What happens if EJ confesses to murdering Gabriel while in Psych custody. I wonder if she thinks she is covered by HIPPA?

 

[AZlawyer]

I have to ask this question AZLawyer. What happens if EJ confesses to murdering Gabriel while in Psych custody. I wonder if she thinks she is covered by HIPPA?

Well, HIPPA doesn't govern evidentiary issues, but I think it is a moot point. She has already confessed to murdering Gabriel. But a confession is not much good, particularly if given by a person with known psychiatric issues, without some evidence to support it. Remember that guy who confessed to killing JBR?

 

[kappy50]

AZ..Say SAPD has no new information regarding GB's case....and this is kinda sitting around as "Cold"...could they change the homicide case to "Inactive"...thus allowing the FBI to re-open a missing persons case? Then if circumstances change, and God forbid the worst, they could then re-open the case as a homicide ? Hope I haven't confused you! Thx's....

 

[AZlawyer]

AZ..Say SAPD has no new information regarding GB's case....and this is kinda sitting around as "Cold"...could they change the homicide case to "Inactive"...thus allowing the FBI to re-open a missing persons case? Then if circumstances change, and God forbid the worst, they could then re-open the case as a homicide ? Hope I haven't confused you! Thx's....

I don't see why the FBI can't investigate the missing persons case at the same time as SAPD has an open homicide investigation.

 

[BeanE]

Hi AZ. We're trying to figure out for sure if Tammi and Elizabeth will be tried together or separately for the Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference charge. Can you help us determine it?

Thanks!

:blowkiss:

 

[noopy]

hi az... given these women's track records, will they actually show up or will trial be postponed AGAIN? can they keep postponing trial indefinitely? how many more times can they pull this off? thanks.

 

[AZlawyer]

Hi AZ. We're trying to figure out for sure if Tammi and Elizabeth will be tried together or separately for the Conspiracy to Commit Custodial Interference charge. Can you help us determine it?

Thanks!

:blowkiss:

I don't see any rulings or motions about that on the docket--did you guys find one? They are listed as co-defendants, so the trial should be together unless one of them files a motion and explains how her case will be unfairly tainted by the evidence being presented against the other defendant.

 

[AZlawyer]

hi az... given these women's track records, will they actually show up or will trial be postponed AGAIN? can they keep postponing trial indefinitely? how many more times can they pull this off? thanks.

The trial date was postponed multiple times? I didn't even know a date had been set. It seems early for anyone to have expected this case to be ready for trial.

 

[noopy]

The trial date was postponed multiple times? I didn't even know a date had been set. It seems early for anyone to have expected this case to be ready for trial.

thanks and apologies az! i get all my legal terms mixed up... i meant the scheduled court appearances. if there's no upcoming trial dates in sight, when will the truth ever come out for gabriel? read tammi likely to make a plea bargain, does that mean she will exchange valuable info at the sept hearing? or is sept still too close? what's a realistic timeline for tps and ej to be put on trial, and for them to speak what they know in your opinion? thanks az as always.

 

[noopy]

...SNIP.... If a judge rules that Johnson again is incompetent to stand trial, other options could be considered, such as dismissing the case or institutionalizing her, Feldman said.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/article_0d4f8464-a66a-11df-bbb7-001cc4c03286.html

is this really possible? how disturbing that this is even a possibility.

 

[AZlawyer]

thanks and apologies az! i get all my legal terms mixed up... i meant the scheduled court appearances. if there's no upcoming trial dates in sight, when will the truth ever come out for gabriel? read tammi likely to make a plea bargain, does that mean she will exchange valuable info at the sept hearing? or is sept still too close? what's a realistic timeline for tps and ej to be put on trial, and for them to speak what they know in your opinion? thanks az as always.

My understanding is that the Sept. hearing is just about EJ's competency, but that's just based on seeing a newspaper article, so please let me know if i'm missing something. The "new evidence" mentioned that would be introduced at the Sept. hearing is therefore probably new evidence about how crazy EJ is--not about Gabriel, unfortunately.

September is still too close. Six months is more like it. And unless there is a plea bargain, IMO neither of them will testify. And if they testify, IMO neither of them will "speak what they know" while doing so.

...SNIP.... If a judge rules that Johnson again is incompetent to stand trial, other options could be considered, such as dismissing the case or institutionalizing her, Feldman said.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/article_0d4f8464-a66a-11df-bbb7-001cc4c03286.html

is this really possible? how disturbing that this is even a possibility.

Yes, it is possible. Hopefully it will turn out that she's "all better now" and we can move forward...

 

[noopy]

Yes, it is possible. Hopefully it will turn out that she's "all better now" and we can move forward...

Thanks AZ... IF worst case scenario case gets dismissed, does she get institutionalized? OR does she simply walk away free from everything, as if Baby Gabriel never even existed? (Shocking if our system even allows for the latter to be a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.)
If she gets institionalized, and say gets better in a few months (maybe stops acting), then does she walk free again? or can the family/state sue her again at that point?

 

[AZlawyer]

Thanks AZ... IF worst case scenario case gets dismissed, does she get institutionalized? OR does she simply walk away free from everything, as if Baby Gabriel never even existed? (Shocking if our system even allows for the latter to be a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.)
If she gets institionalized, and say gets better in a few months (maybe stops acting), then does she walk free again? or can the family/state sue her again at that point?

As long as she stays "crazy," she will be institutionalized.

If she gets "better" down the road, whether or not she can still be prosecuted depends on the statute of limitations for whatever crimes are at issue.