TH's polygraphs

I agree. "I can't understand why they keep asking me stuff"? Really? A 7 year old child under your care is missing and you don't understand why the police would keep asking you stuff? This is projection at its most basic.

Perhaps since she didn't want Kyron around she can't understand how anyone else can possibly want to find him. She probably really is perplexed by that. She was good, just moseying on over to the gym - so why doesn't everyone else just mosey along about their business as well?

Man, you hit the nail on the head as to how psychopaths think. They didn't care for the victim and it's really throws them for a loop that so many other people do. It puts a kink in their plans of going on with their "bella vida" and pisses them off.
 
My experience with the public schools in three different states is that any parent can request testing for their child and the district provides it free of charge. I do NOT know about Oregon schools, however (though it was my understanding this was a federal mandate and not a state mandate).

School districts provide educational testing (IQ, academics, etc.) These tests are given by school psychologists and they are not diagnostic. They do not tell a parent what learning disablility a child may have, only that he/she may have a general Learning Disability. This testing is done to help students qualify for Special Education services. It is quite expensive for the district, and does not give specific info. ADHD can only be diagnosed by a Dr. However, it is very common for a teacher to fill out a checklist of the severity of certain symptoms. Just my two cents.
 
OK guys this is not a second SM thread this is a thread about the Lie Detector.

Get back on topic. Discuss this turn of events in the news...

This is the last warning. Lie Detector news........ Continued warnings will result in Time outs.
 
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.
 
People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.
 
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.

Quoted because I think this is very important insight into TM's current (and likely usual) mental state. First, that statement is all ME, ME, ME. "I" don't understand..."I" didn't do anything.....it doesn't make sense to "me". She is focused on herself, her frustration, her exhaustion - the topic of Kyron has left her mind and she can't make sense of why they'd want to poly her again.

Second, it is DEFENSIVE. She is defending herself to her friend - why are they continuing to bother me? I didn't do anything! She doesn't focus on the very real gratitude she should have that so many people are trying to find Kyron for her, they are not giving up, they are going over things over and over again for any small piece of information or bit of fact that can help BRING KYRON HOME. Many, many people with missing loved ones would be thanking the heavens to have even a fraction of that attention and interest in finding their loved one.

I imagine they have asked KM, DY, TY, the teachers, the parents, the kids the same questions over and over again as well. TM however, is taking it personally and is now in defense (and whining) mode.

Then again, maybe she is always like that. Some people are.
 
If school was out for the summer the following week, why schedule a doctor's appointment for one of the last days of school? She had all summer to take him.

I don't think I have seen an answer to this yet - but one reason not to wait is if he was taking medication(s) and was about to run out. A lot of times the dr won't issue a refill until they are seen and evaluations have been completed by parent/caretakers/teachers. (This is particularly true for ADHD stimulant meds.)
 
I don't think there has been any confirmation on whether or not Kyron might have been dx with a learning disability, though I've read discussion of it as fact elsewhere. It is something that could definitely be a factor in the SM-did-it scenario. OR, if it hadn't been dx yet, this appointment could have been related to a recommendation from the school that psycho-ed testing be done. I understand that most school districts have diagnosticians to do that at no cost. I also know that families sometimes have the option to pursue testing on their own through someone in private practice. That would be very costly though.

When my daughter was having problems focusing and disrupting the classroom in 3rd grade. Her teacher explained to me on how to get her tested for ADHD. The Principal had the paper work on file. First get evaluations from the teachers that taught her and the principal. Second take her to get Psychological testing done. Third take all the paperwork from the principal,the teachers and the psychiatrist to her pediatrician to prescribe meds for her ADHD. Plus we had quarterly evaluations from them all. The cost was minimal since she was covered under insurance. Hope this helps.:)
 
Polygraphs can have a 3rd category: "inconclusive"

I bet that's what happened in TMH's first poly.

I agree. Remember Gate's no comment about if she had taken a poly. If she had and passed and they did not suspect her, I would think he would answer that differently. JMO.
 
So true. The way that these comments by the friend are presented it is as if she has been "put upon" and "inconvenienced" by the interviews. How is this a natural reaction when a loved one is missing and you were the last to see them and most acquainted with their daily routine? Still, I'm surprised this "frustration" is being voiced aloud considering she's married to the missing person's father. I can't imagine being in his shoes - your child is missing and there is all of this speculation about your spouse's involvement whirling about everywhere.

My thoughts exactly...what a nightmare to begin with but, then to have doubts about the one your love & entrusted the care of your own child with only now to be shattered with the sick thought of...what if she did something terrible to Kyron?

How do spouses go through each day, eat, sleep & live together when there's this doubt hanging in the air?

I pray that SM is the only POI and not KH, too...but, then I feel such empathy for him to have to endure another minute with a person who may have shattered his whole world.:(
 
I agree. Remember Gate's no comment about if she had taken a poly. If she had and passed and they did not suspect her, I would think he would answer that differently. JMO.
AND he laughed! That's what caught me.
 
OK, back to the polygraph. We've already been warned to stay on topic.

My thought is that the first poly more than likely took place in the first few days of the investigation. It is now two weeks later and LE has a much better idea of which questions to ask and they want them answered under poly.
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
"Friend says Terri Moulton Horman is scheduled to take another polygraph in disappearance of Kyron Horman"

this was originally posted here
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SM as a potential focus of the investigation #2

but I thought I would make it a thread so no one misses it

a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!
 
Like another poster said earlier, I really doubt that today is the second poly test. I'll bet it is the first. I'm sure her friend believes it's the second poly, but I'll bet she was not told the truth.

IMO there are two strong emerging patterns, first a lack of concern for Kyron and second that she appears to be both a compulsive liar and a sociopathic liar. Here's a description of those behaviors and the difference http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/...-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html
 
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

I don't understand the reference to 3's - can someone shed some light for me? TIA!
 
Like another poster said earlier, I really doubt that today is the second poly test. I'll bet it is the first. I'm sure her friend believes it's the second poly, but I'll bet she was not told the truth.

IMO there are two strong emerging patterns, first a lack of concern for Kyron and second that she appears to be both a compulsive liar and a sociopathic liar. Here's a description of those behaviors and the difference http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/...-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html

I was thinking/wondering that also - if this would be her first.
 
Like other liars, Terri just goes with the flow when caught in a lie. If she committed the crime against Kyron, if it was premeditated (and it looks more and more like it was) her plan all along appears to have been to blame the school, blame the new teacher for misundertanding, blame any and everyone ELSE for her crime.

She was setting this up on Thursday, June 3rd. Let the teacher believe Kyron would be leaving the school with her for an appointment on Friday the 4th of June. The teacher would not be wondering where Kyron was on this day, the day of the Science Fair, the next day. Then, after Kyron is reported missing by Terri, Terri turns on the teacher. Now, it was the "new," hard of hearing teacher who misunderstood. Wonder if the teacher is hard-of reading also, or the date on the paperwork was just not clear? My guess, Terri would have no problem saying that black is white, that June 4 is really June 11. Whatever Terri said to the teacher on Thursday and Friday, she would just say that the teacher was wrong. This is what liars and manipulators do.

In my OPINION, Terri shows many of the characteristics of a psychopath from what we are learning about her. It really makes me wonder if the 1% of the population figure is correct. There is so much information regarding this subject, and psychopaths are labelled with different names. Here is just one, of many descriptions, by a leader in the research into psychopaths. If you read further, Dr. Hare gives in-depth descriptions so of the character traits he lists. He is the author of "Without Conscience," and unfortunately it is looking like our Terri here falls under that description.

With the exception of Dr. Robert Hare's words below, this post is all my OPINION and belief and supposition.


LINK: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=2

"How to spot social predators before they attack.
By Robert Hare, published on January 01, 1994 - last reviewed on June 01, 2010
Key Symptoms of Psychopathy


Emotional/Interpersonal:

Glib and superficial
Egocentric and grandiose
Lack of remorse or guilt
Lack of empathy
Deceitful and manipulative
Shallow emotions

Social Deviance:

Impulsive
Poor behavior controls
Need for excitement
Lack of responsibility
Early behavior problems
Adult antisocial behavior"
 
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.

Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.
 
a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!

There was what at least one newspaper that printed "alive", but that was not the words Gates said directly from his mouth at the presser he did not say alive.
 
a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!
It was said by him near the end of the press conference.

I am saying this from memory, from listening to him speak. Is this statement not being found in the transcripts?
 

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