Conflict between Kaine/Desiree statements re: red flags/crying

[Paintr]

I used to work at school. Plenty of times children would be teary eyed when parents left and two minutes later be happily involved in something else.

Seven year olds also react to parental emotion. If Desiree was sad to see Kyron go then I am sure Kyron picked up on mom's distress and was sad too.

If Desiree truly saw Kyron being afraid/reluctant to return to Kaine's household, I am sure she would have closely questioned Kyron as to the reasons. If the reasons were disturbing to Desiree and her LE DH Tony, they would have had no trouble getting the custody situation reviewed.

IMO Desiree is upset and looking for clues to bring her son home. Memories take on or lose significance when view through later events.

 

[debs]

I usually "test-drive" my :crazy: ideas on DH, and if he doesn't laugh too hard or tell me that I've lost my marbles, I figure that I'll stay out of straitjacket for a while longer

For now, I'm sticking with my smoke and mirrors claim in the Kyron Horman case, and let's just leave it at that

I used to bounce ideas off my dear husband too, until I realized that mebbe he wasn't exactly sane himself.

 

[Calliope]

I'm not trying to list all conflicts (if any others exist), just this specific thing I found curious, because my perception is that they have a very different perception on why Kyron was crying when it was time to go home to Kaine and Terri.

What Kaine says makes more sense and IMO is closer to the truth. I see the same thing happen with our little guy; depending on what *fun* things are going on with whatever parent, he will show his displeasure at being taken away from that.

I also wonder how much of him wanting to stay with his mother has to do with Desiree planning special treats and trips and events while Kyron is around, whereas when he's at home it's just routine, 'boring', everyday life. Not to disparage her in any way, but it's easy to make every other weekend (or whatever their schedule) something fun and exciting, but if she had him all the time he would soon come to realize that it's not fun and games 24/7.

 

[Calliope]

I think Kaine got defensive. Simple as that. He has absolutely no right to say how Kyron reacted to leaving Desiree's house because he was not there when Kyron left. It would have been 2 hours or more later by the time he saw Kyron.

I also think that Desiree not trusting Terri for a minute and Kaine thinking she was a good person is not a conflict at all. My husband's ex wife was a "good person" but she was also a lying cheating _____. Yet, I wouldn't trust her for a minute.

These are not conflicts in my mind, just the differences in the way people say and see things... as well as a bit of human defensiveness.

I think he probably does have the right to weigh in on this; from his comment it's apparent he and Desiree had discussed this issue.

 

[angelmom]

This statement was when I really started to feel like DY was remembering with a bias and not necessarily what happened.

First of all, if Kaine disagrees with it, then I'm assuming it never bothered her enough to bring it up to him. So maybe she brushed it off but in hindsight is making it out to be more than it is.

Kind of like "I never trusted her" or "She's always been a liar." REALLY? Why was your kid being raised by her if you had such strong feelings? She may have had misgivings about Terri, but I don't think you just sit complacently by while your child is spending nearly all of his time with someone you have a real concern about. While she may not have won custody, there is no evidence that she even tried to regain it since Kyron was an infant. I don't blame her for that if she felt like Terri staying home with the kids was a better environment, but I do blame her if she's rewriting history to make Terri look worse in the media and the eyes of LE.

And so what if he cried? Quite frankly I'd be much more concerned if he didn't miss his mom, didn't want to live with her, didn't get emotional saying goodbye to her. Now THAT would be a big red flag.

 

[Calliope]

To add to my above post, there's baby to consider. My daughter's ex was the *fun* parent for a while; he always had something fun and exciting planned for his weekends with my grandson. And grandson responded appropriately, anxious to see Dad and at times upset that he had to leave all the fun and games behind to come home to mom.

Until Dad and his wife had their baby.

Now life at Dad's has taken on a more mundane existence ... with the addition of a little brother who takes up a lot of their time and won't even get up and play! How dare he just lay there and cry and poo all day! lol

 

[txsvicki]

I've seen a bunch of discrepancies in the Kaine and Desiree's statements and expect that there is already a rift between them, and may have been some problems even before Kyron went missing.

Desiree says that Kyron was 18 mos. before she "would even" talk to Terri
Kaine says it was months before Terri was involved "in any capacity" with Kyron

Desiree says Terri lied since she's known her, it's all been lies
Kaine says Terri was a good person when he married her

Desiree says she saw WARNING signs of Kyron's INCREASING unhappiness at having to go home to his Dad's even eventually breaking down sobbing.

Why is Kaine discounting this, it's not normal to increasingly be unhappy and actually sob. Kyron's mother knows what she's talking about and should be heard because it is also Kyron's voice. This isn't a normal situation where a small child whines a little when having to leave a loved one, it's a missing child who is gone and who was sobbing at having to return to a place where he was living most of the time and where he went missing after being taken to school. How does Kaine know what was going before he or Terri got there to pick up Kyron or how Kyron was sobbing. Does he think Desiree is lying and why is that defensive attitude important now when the woman he married and had in charge of his child is suspected by the public and himself of doing something. It's weird, very weird, too controlling, and too defensive.

If there were bad marital problems affecting the kids then it needs to be admitted to so that LE can try to figure out what happened.

 

[LaceSprocket]

The way I see it... there are three versions, not just two.

1. What Desiree actually SAID and in what context
2. Kaine's version
3. The version the editors gave us

So who's right? I don't know.

Kaine's version is suspect because he ignored the question about red flags. Clearly, he was avoiding it. It's OK for Desiree to say she saw red flags, because she was non-custodial. But if Kaine said, "Oh yeah, there were red flags all over the place!" ...my goodness, people would starting blaming HIM for not doing anything about it. So of course, he's not going to say that. So in a way, he was wise to avoid that topic.

Another point about Desiree's interview:

She said she knew Kyron wanted to live with her because he would break down and sob that "he wanted to stay." Well, I think there is a big difference between a child crying because they want "to stay" where they're at. Versus a child sobbing because he wants to LIVE with the other parent. I think Desiree was trying to paint a picture based on her gut feelings, perhaps not exactly what Kyron said to her. I think if Kyron repeatedly told her "I want to live with you," then she would have said that explicitly. I'm not saying that Kyron didn't want to live with her - maybe he didn't come right out and say it, but that's the message Desiree received.

Again, Kaine isn't going to say, "Oh yeah, Kyron wanted to live with his mother!" What would that say about him?

Nobody knows what the truth is. Were there red flags? Is that why Kyron wanted to live with his mother? Is Desiree right? Is Kaine trying to manipulate the truth? I don't know, but I think the safest way for me to go is to just take their words at face value and NOT read too much into anything.

 

[shorty42404]

Just gonna throw this in ..

As a mom, I am more sensitive to the emotional needs of my children than my husband is. I think in general this is true. For DY to say this about her son must mean she was truly concerned about his behavior. She may have overlooked her concerns in the past but now as many things are coming to the light in this case, she is "connecting the dots".

Also, I had a stepmom in my early teens who was extremely NEUROTIC and she hated kids. I loved her later in life only because God intervened in my heart to forgive her and love her. However, in the past, living with her was a horrible experience. I did not want to be at home because of her and I often stayed the night at friends' houses as much as possible. It had little to do with my dad, it was mainly her. If she hadn't been there I would've been okay at home.

So, imo, I think the statement reflected more so on Kyron and Terri's relationship, not Kaine. Who was the primary caretaker of Kyron? Terri. Not only that but KH & DY are a team so I don't think she would want to put Kaine in a negative light.

Again, just my perspective and hopefully it helps :smile:

 

[Wrinkles]

To add to my above post, there's baby to consider. My daughter's ex was the *fun* parent for a while; he always had something fun and exciting planned for his weekends with my grandson. And grandson responded appropriately, anxious to see Dad and at times upset that he had to leave all the fun and games behind to come home to mom.

Until Dad and his wife had their baby.

Now life at Dad's has taken on a more mundane existence ... with the addition of a little brother who takes up a lot of their time and won't even get up and play! How dare he just lay there and cry and poo all day! lol

Oh yeah! So right on... My son had custody of his two children. He had to be mother and father and had full responsibility. Their mother, WHEN she would actually agree to take the children on her weekend (something she dictated if she didn't have plans to party that weekend -- or literally "go fishing") was all fun and games and celebration. Oh and then mom's new baby came along and her household was embroiled with battles and problems because of the mom's incredible and dangerous irresponsibility with the baby and the baby's needs too. And then my son's kids got free reign to get them out of the house or they saw the battles there...grievous physical battles.

Poor kids, they don't see the "real home" in these mixed custody things -- they don't see how poor mom or dad who is really carrying the "precious load" are working so hard to do what parents must do for their children. That hard work often comes with no break for the parent carrying the load -- full time stress. Children like fun fun fun...responsibility is something learned, and when they have a "play parent" or a "party parent" OF COURSE they want to be with them and not leave. AND why would a parent who only gets to see their child once in a while want to spend time on pure responsibility just to make things seem equal and understandable?

Sad deal all around.

 

[LillyRush]

Does anyone know why at one point an article somewhere out there mentioned that Desiree and TH were friends? I know that DY has stepped in and clarified that they were apparently not friends.

But, I'm just wondering where that idea originated.....Was it a reporter's error? Or, did someone (Kaine or Terri, etc.) actually say that they had been friends?

Just trying to figure out if that is another conflict or simply an error in reporting.

 

[cluciano63]

Does anyone know why at one point an article somewhere out there mentioned that Desiree and TH were friends? I know that DY has stepped in and clarified that they were apparently not friends.

But, I'm just wondering where that idea originated.....Was it a reporter's error? Or, did someone (Kaine or Terri, etc.) actually say that they had been friends?

Just trying to figure out if that is another conflict or simply an error in reporting.

A very early article consisting mostly of info that came from Terri's mother alleged that Terri was brought in to help with Kyron on behalf of Desiree...can't recall exact wording. But much of what was in that article has since proved to be dubious at best.

I think perhaps Kyron was naturally wanting his mommy more, especially since the birth of the baby in Portland. In Medford, he got to be the baby and I'm sure the entire weekend was centered around him and his likes, his choices, etc...in retrospect, his tears may seem far more ominous to Desiree than they may have been.

 

[PorcineGranny]

I believe Kyron was truly unhappy with Terri and his dad. His dad was not around, and Terri treated him with less than love in my opinion. Of course Kaine would not admit this, it would be his failure to provide and plus he would have to pay child support to Desiree. I am old and I have seen this, when a child is sobbing about having to stay with one parent, pay attention. Now this doesn't let Desiree off the hook, why didn't she initiate discussions with Kaine, alerting him and keeping Kyron until it was straightened out? If she had acted, perhaps nothing would have happened to Kyron because everyone would be tuned into his feelings.

Kaine will not admit to his mistakes. He will not admit he put Kyron in harm's way, but he did.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think we are allowed to refer to the "bully" post but only to say that I thought she was referring to another child at the time, not Kyron...at least that is how I took it.

 

[eyes4crime]

How can Kaine and his x-wife Desiree, engage in a full-blown character assassination of Kaine's present wife, Terri, and not realize that it's a reflection on Kaine's lack of judgment? And Desiree's lack of judgment?

According to Desiree, Terri is a serial liar who hasn't been truthful in 71/2 years. Failed polygraphs, lies to LE, refusal to cooperate with the investigation, resorting to the irrelevance such as hair color to avoid discussing missing Kyron, unstable, depressed with mood swings, PPD lasting 'till just before Kyron disappeared, accomplices, MFH schemes, kidnapping plots for baby girl, all of which cast doubt about Terri's ability to be a nurturing caretaker, and at the same time, casts significant doubt on Kaine's ability to provide a safe environment for his child.

Of course Kyron would break down and sob, become depressed, and cry to stay with mom Desiree and step-dad Tony, what child wouldn't? What child want's to be in a fearful and unpredictable environment such as the one Terri and Kaine provided? How can Kyron possibly figure out truth from fiction with a serial liar as his caretaker?

In making Terri the sick one, inadvertently, both Desiree and Kaine's judgment become questionable. If all the above is true about Terri, how and the heck can Kaine portray himself as a reasonable man/dad with good judgment? And what about Desiree, why wasn't she busy getting emergency custody of her son? Red flags everywhere! moo mho and all that stuff. now I'll run...

 

[BeanE]

How can Kaine and his x-wife Desiree, engage in a full-blown character assassination of Kaine's present wife, Terri, and not realize that it's a reflection on Kaine's lack of judgment? And Desiree's lack of judgment?

Perhaps they see how it's happening all over the internet right now, where something that people say is damning towards Terri, is somehow not at all damning towards the other three parents. It's magic.

 

[LillyRush]

A very early article consisting mostly of info that came from Terri's mother alleged that Terri was brought in to help with Kyron on behalf of Desiree...can't recall exact wording. But much of what was in that article has since proved to be dubious at best.

I think perhaps Kyron was naturally wanting his mommy more, especially since the birth of the baby in Portland. In Medford, he got to be the baby and I'm sure the entire weekend was centered around him and his likes, his choices, etc...in retrospect, his tears may seem far more ominous to Desiree than they may have been.

Thank you, I had forgotten that Terri's mother was the one being interviewed for at least part of that article.

 

[Billylee]

Does anyone know why at one point an article somewhere out there mentioned that Desiree and TH were friends? I know that DY has stepped in and clarified that they were apparently not friends.

But, I'm just wondering where that idea originated.....Was it a reporter's error? Or, did someone (Kaine or Terri, etc.) actually say that they had been friends?

Just trying to figure out if that is another conflict or simply an error in reporting.

Here's the article dated June 19:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html


Kyron moved in full time with his dad, now 36, an engineer at Intel. With a demanding job at the company's Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro, where he works in the architecture group, Kaine needed child care. So, Desiree's friend Terri moved in to help.

"Someone had to watch the baby," said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine's brother Kristian. "Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby."

 

[wondering1]

Here's the article dated June 19:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html


Kyron moved in full time with his dad, now 36, an engineer at Intel. With a demanding job at the company's Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro, where he works in the architecture group, Kaine needed child care. So, Desiree's friend Terri moved in to help.

"Someone had to watch the baby," said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine's brother Kristian. "Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby."

Sounds like one big 7 1/2-year-long lie to me

 

[CarmelEyesD]

How can Kaine and his x-wife Desiree, engage in a full-blown character assassination of Kaine's present wife, Terri, and not realize that it's a reflection on Kaine's lack of judgment? And Desiree's lack of judgment?

According to Desiree, Terri is a serial liar who hasn't been truthful in 71/2 years. Failed polygraphs, lies to LE, refusal to cooperate with the investigation, resorting to the irrelevant such as hair color to avoid discussing missing Kyron, unstable, depressed with mood swings, PPD lasting 'till just before Kyron disappeared, accomplices, MFH schemes, kidnapping plots for baby girl, certainly casts doubt about Terri's ability to be a nurturing caretaker while at the same time, casts significant doubt on Kaine's ability to provide a safe environment for his child.

Of course Kyron would break down and sob, become depressed, and cry to stay with mom Desiree and step-dad Tony, what child wouldn't? What child want's to be in a fearful and unpredictable environment such as the one Terri and Kaine provided? How could Kyron possibly have figured out truth from fiction with a serial liar as his caretaker?

In making Terri the sick one, inadvertently both Desiree and Kaine's judgment become questionable. If all the above is true about Terri, how and the heck can Kaine portray himself as a reasonable man/dad with good judgment? And what about Desiree, why wasn't she busy getting emergency custody of her son? Red flags everywhere! moo mho and all that stuff. now I'll run...

In the 'old' days, it was called a 'smear campaign'.