CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #1

[Satch]

Forgive me if this has already been answered,

But when is the school supposed to be torn down? Or if not torn down, remodeled? What are/were the plans for this school? It is haunting to wonder, is there evidence hidden there?

Satch

 

[DrHog]

Exactly. I can only hope that is what they are currently doing.

Since Roger didn't bring any money or any type of extras, I think it was intention to meet someone and come home after school.

I do think, just based on probabilities, you are correct. If one gives credence to the stories by the reporter, see http://findrogerellison.wordpress.co...ters-notebook/ , one would say it is extremely likely to be the case.

Also, on the Doe Network, it labels the case a Non-family abduction. I would assume this is how law enforcement has described the case. I can only speculate they have some information which makes them believe that.

But with all that said, there are no facts or evidence I have read that rule out him walking away. Because of that, I think it still has to be on the table as a possibility.

 

[Bennettras]

Danaya:

I think there are really 2 choices that have to be considered until evidence rules one out. Either he left school to meet one or more people for something (We have no solid clues what it might be) or he left alone and did not plan to meet others.

If it is the 1st choice, I certainly agree he had some reason to trust the person or persons he was going to meet. I further agree if it were a "secret" relationship, it would have been kept even 'closer to the vest', so to speak. Still, it has been my experience, and that isn't evidence, that someone else knew or suspected this "secret" relationship. I still believe the best line for investigators is to go back to his friends, teachers, school counselor, coach, and etc. Someone has a clue even if they don't know it.

If it is the 2nd choice, this makes it more difficult because he may be the only one who could provide us with answers. Kids exaggerate the importance of things going on in their life at the time. What might seem a small thing to adults is a huge problem for a kid. I don't really know much about Roger, but I have seen some pretty solid kids make some really bad decisions at a moment of despair. I remember distinctly a student of mine who talked to me about ending his life. He was a senior and had all "A"s and one "B". His life was wrapped around that one "B" and that he might not be valedictorian. I have had others who believed they just didn't fit in or were different and needed to escape.

I think the main thing is to keep an open mind to all choices and only let the evidence drive our logic.

Do we really have anything that tells us what his plans were? I don't see much but let's look at what Roger didn't do.
1. He did not take extra money with him that we know of.
2. He didn't hitch a ride but road the school bus.
3. He didn't take extra clothes to school.
4. He has never called anyone that we know of.

If you apply those known facts to our 2 scenarios, it means he was coming home after school in choice 1, but he was probably never coming home in choice 2.

BBM

DrHog...Thank you so much for your insight. Educators do have difficult jobs indeed. Not only do you teach our children but you are often privy to the emotions we do not see at home.

What scenarios, in your experience, can you share about scenario 1 that may help us 'lay persons' understand this type of situation? Perhaps your insight could open a new avenues for detectives.

The modifier (BBM), in scenario 2 has me a bit confused. I feel that it can be interpreted a couple of ways.

I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for an educator to teach, and, at the same time, deal with the changing relationships and emotions of growing adolescents. I am so glad there are people like you who can fill that niche.

Thank you again for your insight.

 

[DrHog]

BBM

DrHog...Thank you so much for your insight. Educators do have difficult jobs indeed. Not only do you teach our children but you are often privy to the emotions we do not see at home.

What scenarios, in your experience, can you share about scenario 1 that may help us 'lay persons' understand this type of situation? Perhaps your insight could open a new avenues for detectives.

The modifier (BBM), in scenario 2 has me a bit confused. I feel that it can be interpreted a couple of ways.

I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for an educator to teach, and, at the same time, deal with the changing relationships and emotions of growing adolescents. I am so glad there are people like you who can fill that niche.

Thank you again for your insight.

Generally speaking, when kids miss school it is either for sex, partying (drugs and/or alcohol), hanging out (meet at someone's house), or mischief (vandalism, theft). Sometimes they are mixed together. Even if the person or persons involved with the student are adults, the reasons are often still the same. The accounts we have of Roger indicate he was a nice kid. Still, a lot of nice kids go not planning to get involved but wanting to fit in. I have had adults involved with students during these episodes and it makes it much more serious, but it is much more rare than involvement with other kids. I will say though that you often see dropouts or recent graduates who have not moved on still involved with these high school kids. They tend to be the most dangerous and persuasive.

There is a lot we don't know about this case. If there was not a group of students gone that day, I think it leads us to believe he either only met a student or two, an adult or two, or he left alone. The truth is we just don't have enough information.

I'm sorry for any confusion I have caused. I am confused now. What does BBM mean? Explain a little more to me and I will try to clear it up.

 

[Danaya]

DrHog: BBM means bolded by me. So, if a poster is replying to something you wrote, they will bold out what they are replying to.

I was thinking, when JP came and wrote here on WS, he talked about an assignment that Roger had completed not knowing it would be handed in. He also touched on him supposedly telling Roger's Mom that Roger was suicidal. He stated that the detective returned to him and told him how Roger's secret assignment had to do with something the detective found out. But because the detective asked JP not to share what this assignment was about, the one the detective confiscated, he didn't disclose any details to us and rightfully so.

I am wondering, if anyone has ever been to Cedaredge, is there a remote place there that Roger could have gone to in order to take his own life? The thing is, is if this was his plan, why go to school at all? Why not commit suicide at home? I don't really get the suicide theory.

BTW, the school will be demolished some what this September. They are building an elementary school.

I wish Roger's old friends would come forward; someone knows something! Have they just gotten on with their life and pushed it to the far corners of their mind and kept the past in the past?

 

[Bennettras]

Generally speaking, when kids miss school it is either for sex, partying (drugs and/or alcohol), hanging out (meet at someone's house), or mischief (vandalism, theft). Sometimes they are mixed together. Even if the person or persons involved with the student are adults, the reasons are often still the same. The accounts we have of Roger indicate he was a nice kid. Still, a lot of nice kids go not planning to get involved but wanting to fit in. I have had adults involved with students during these episodes and it makes it much more serious, but it is much more rare than involvement with other kids. I will say though that you often see dropouts or recent graduates who have not moved on still involved with these high school kids. They tend to be the most dangerous and persuasive.

There is a lot we don't know about this case. If there was not a group of students gone that day, I think it leads us to believe he either only met a student or two, an adult or two, or he left alone. The truth is we just don't have enough information.

I'm sorry for any confusion I have caused. I am confused now. What does BBM mean? Explain a little more to me and I will try to clear it up.

BBM. means bolded by me. The parts of the message you posted had words/phrases that were of interest to me. When I quoted you, I bolded the parts I was writing about.

I agree there is a lot we do not know about this case. I believe it is because persons with information, are in fear of speaking ( I feel there may have been some very upsetting threats). After 30 years, what could one be so fearful of? JP has been under suspicion for years, and, to my knowledge, he has not brought suit against anyone. I still do not understand why JP would not give info here about what was in a PUBLIC school assignment.

Where do you teach now? How have the children differed from Rogers time to now as far as teachers picking up on changes? Are the students now better at concealment, or not any different?

Thank you again for responding. It is refreshing to get an educators experiences aboard.

 

[Bennettras]

DrHog: BBM means bolded by me. So, if a poster is replying to something you wrote, they will bold out what they are replying to.

I was thinking, when JP came and wrote here on WS, he talked about an assignment that Roger had completed not knowing it would be handed in. He also touched on him supposedly telling Roger's Mom that Roger was suicidal. He stated that the detective returned to him and told him how Roger's secret assignment had to do with something the detective found out. But because the detective asked JP not to share what this assignment was about, the one the detective confiscated, he didn't disclose any details to us and rightfully so.

I am wondering, if anyone has ever been to Cedaredge, is there a remote place there that Roger could have gone to in order to take his own life? The thing is, is if this was his plan, why go to school at all? Why not commit suicide at home? I don't really get the suicide theory.

BTW, the school will be demolished some what this September. They are building an elementary school.

I wish Roger's old friends would come forward; someone knows something! Have they just gotten on with their life and pushed it to the far corners of their mind and kept the past in the past?

Danaya? Did you get actual info regarding the demolition? There is already a new elementary school and high school in Cedaredge. Did they announce plans for a new one? Can you direct us to the source. Thanks

 

[Satch]

I wish Roger's old friends would come forward; someone knows something! Have they just gotten on with their life and pushed it to the far corners of their mind and kept the past in the past?

I feel the same way,

What about the classmate of Roger's who shared the same locker with him? (As a side-note, when I was in high school, we always had individual lockers, so I found this a bit unusual.) But at any rate, I wonder if he was the last person whom Roger may have spoken to inside the school building?

Other food for thought:

1.) Roger told this person, "I'll catch up with you in class." Did Roger have any books with him when he closed his locker, as he would presumably be going to class? Or did he put ALL of the books in his locker?

2.) Did he carry the books if he had them in his hands, or put them in a backpack?

3.) Was his backpack ever found and kept as evidence if he had one, and what was in it?

4.) What did the police find when they searched Roger's locker?

Satch

 

[Danaya]

This is a July 16 2010 post from Find Roger Ellison blog:

Delta County school district officials are moving forward with plans to turn the old Cedaredge High School building into an elementary school.

A September groundbreaking is planned.

The renovation will be quite comprehensive, according to school district officials.

It will involve the older sections of the school as well as the addition of new classroom space.

But if the poacher was telling the truth on his death bed, Roger would probably still be in the woods.

 

[justthinkin]

Danaya:

I think there are really 2 choices that have to be considered until evidence rules one out. Either he left school to meet one or more people for something (We have no solid clues what it might be) or he left alone and did not plan to meet others.

If it is the 1st choice, I certainly agree he had some reason to trust the person or persons he was going to meet. I further agree if it were a "secret" relationship, it would have been kept even 'closer to the vest', so to speak. Still, it has been my experience, and that isn't evidence, that someone else knew or suspected this "secret" relationship. I still believe the best line for investigators is to go back to his friends, teachers, school counselor, coach, and etc. Someone has a clue even if they don't know it.

If it is the 2nd choice, this makes it more difficult because he may be the only one who could provide us with answers. Kids exaggerate the importance of things going on in their life at the time. What might seem a small thing to adults is a huge problem for a kid. I don't really know much about Roger, but I have seen some pretty solid kids make some really bad decisions at a moment of despair. I remember distinctly a student of mine who talked to me about ending his life. He was a senior and had all "A"s and one "B". His life was wrapped around that one "B" and that he might not be valedictorian. I have had others who believed they just didn't fit in or were different and needed to escape.

I think the main thing is to keep an open mind to all choices and only let the evidence drive our logic.

Do we really have anything that tells us what his plans were? I don't see much but let's look at what Roger didn't do.
1. He did not take extra money with him that we know of.
2. He didn't hitch a ride but road the school bus.
3. He didn't take extra clothes to school.
4. He has never called anyone that we know of.

If you apply those known facts to our 2 scenarios, it means he was coming home after school in choice 1, but he was probably never coming home in choice 2.

The third scenario is that Roger never left the school that morning. His last words to his locker mate, Mitch were for Mitch to hold the locker open because Roger needed to get some books out of it before class. If Roger's intent was to leave the school, his statement to Mitch seems at odds, a concocted utterance. Why say anything? Why even go to the locker for that matter if he was planning to leave as soon as the halls cleared unless it was to deposit books he may have been carrying, and didn't want to drag along with him?

I'm not familiar with boilers as a heating source. Are they noisy units, could the sounds they make cover a scuffle in close proximity?

There are so many unanswered questions with this case, add to the rest what did Roger do and who did he talk to between the time he got off the bus at school until he spoke to Mitch in the basement at their shared locker.

The LEOs initial assumption was he was a runaway. It was only later that they changed their minds. Perhaps their initial assumption was correct. We've seen the statements that things were not as they seemed. What does that mean? Does it mean that Roger was not as he is portrayed? Does it mean that Roger was living a lie of some sort? If that were true, wouldn't LE still be of the opinion that Roger was indeed a runaway?

Perhaps there are people associated more closely with this case than they would have us believe, and it is they who are perpetuating myths about Roger in an effort to steer anyone from looking more closely at them.

There were some people who claimed to have seen Roger that day, but witnesses tend to be unreliable. They might have seen Roger, but not that particular day or else they saw someone else only thinking it was Roger they had seen or they actually did see him. We really don't have any solid sightings that I'm aware of, someone who saw Roger and could describe the clothes he was wearing that day.

Roger was active in the community, he worked sacking groceries so most everyone in town would recognize him, he was an avid skiier so it's likely his name and photo appeared in the local news. He'd worked in an apple orchard, and had worked on a dairy farm. As teens go, this kid was one of the more responsible ones or else he was a master of disguise.:waitasec:

 

[DrHog]

BBM

DrHog...Thank you so much for your insight. Educators do have difficult jobs indeed. Not only do you teach our children but you are often privy to the emotions we do not see at home.

What scenarios, in your experience, can you share about scenario 1 that may help us 'lay persons' understand this type of situation? Perhaps your insight could open a new avenues for detectives.

The modifier (BBM), in scenario 2 has me a bit confused. I feel that it can be interpreted a couple of ways.

I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for an educator to teach, and, at the same time, deal with the changing relationships and emotions of growing adolescents. I am so glad there are people like you who can fill that niche.

Thank you again for your insight.

Thanks for clearing up BBM for me. I am new to these boards.


The phrase in scenario 2, "at the time", is just a way of saying that kids are too young to put things in perspective. Losing a girlfriend, having a parent chew them out, getting cut from the ball team, being rejected by a friend are all things that can be seen by kids as the end of the world. I am not suggesting that is what happened to Roger but what I have seen in other students. As an example, I had a student commit suicide several years ago. As she left school that afternoon I was in the hall greeting the kids on the way to the bus. She looked at me and smiled big as all outdoors. Within 3 hours she had killed herself. Over what? She lived with her grandparents and they had gotten onto to her about her grades.

Bennettras: I hesitate to be too specific about where I teach but it is in the South. I have only taught at 2 schools in my career, but I have held about every position you can hold in the school business. As far as kids and how they have changed, I would have to say they haven't changed as much as you might imagine but circumstances have changed. Technology is what is changing. It is breaking down the last barriers in our society. Kids travel farther to do more things than they did 30 years ago. The greatest change though is the ability to get very personal at a distance with the new technologies. It is my greatest concern. I think you will see more and more child/adult relationships exposed as time goes by. We are already seeing a flood of female teachers involved with teenage boys. It is almost always tied back to cell phones, email, or social networks. The world is getting smaller and our ability to be where we aren't is getting easier.

 

[Bennettras]

Thanks for clearing up BBM for me. I am new to these boards.


The phrase in scenario 2, "at the time", is just a way of saying that kids are too young to put things in perspective. Losing a girlfriend, having a parent chew them out, getting cut from the ball team, being rejected by a friend are all things that can be seen by kids as the end of the world. I am not suggesting that is what happened to Roger but what I have seen in other students. As an example, I had a student commit suicide several years ago. As she left school that afternoon I was in the hall greeting the kids on the way to the bus. She looked at me and smiled big as all outdoors. Within 3 hours she had killed herself. Over what? She lived with her grandparents and they had gotten onto to her about her grades.

Bennettras: I hesitate to be too specific about where I teach but it is in the South. I have only taught at 2 schools in my career, but I have held about every position you can hold in the school business. As far as kids and how they have changed, I would have to say they haven't changed as much as you might imagine but circumstances have changed. Technology is what is changing. It is breaking down the last barriers in our society. Kids travel farther to do more things than they did 30 years ago. The greatest change though is the ability to get very personal at a distance with the new technologies. It is my greatest concern. I think you will see more and more child/adult relationships exposed as time goes by. We are already seeing a flood of female teachers involved with teenage boys. It is almost always tied back to cell phones, email, or social networks. The world is getting smaller and our ability to be where we aren't is getting easier.

Thanks DrHog. I didn't mean to get too personal. I appreciate the input regarding the problems kids face. I guess each generation has the same demons, only different technologies with which to expose them. It can be tied to many people who are sure crime was not as bad 30-40 yrs ago as it is now, but it was. We just didn't have the same tech then that we do now to share the info. I know I have been shocked at the revelations of female teachers in the past decade that are bedding students. This stuff must have been going on long before the last decade, but the floating to the surface of it all is a real eye opener. Wow.

 

[Bennettras]

I just pray for Roger's family to find peace and answers. I cannot begin to understand the pain his parents felt.

 

[CaptAmerica]

Danaya:

I think there are really 2 choices that have to be considered until evidence rules one out. Either he left school to meet one or more people for something (We have no solid clues what it might be) or he left alone and did not plan to meet others.

If it is the 1st choice, I certainly agree he had some reason to trust the person or persons he was going to meet. I further agree if it were a "secret" relationship, it would have been kept even 'closer to the vest', so to speak. Still, it has been my experience, and that isn't evidence, that someone else knew or suspected this "secret" relationship. I still believe the best line for investigators is to go back to his friends, teachers, school counselor, coach, and etc. Someone has a clue even if they don't know it.

If it is the 2nd choice, this makes it more difficult because he may be the only one who could provide us with answers. Kids exaggerate the importance of things going on in their life at the time. What might seem a small thing to adults is a huge problem for a kid. I don't really know much about Roger, but I have seen some pretty solid kids make some really bad decisions at a moment of despair. I remember distinctly a student of mine who talked to me about ending his life. He was a senior and had all "A"s and one "B". His life was wrapped around that one "B" and that he might not be valedictorian. I have had others who believed they just didn't fit in or were different and needed to escape.

I think the main thing is to keep an open mind to all choices and only let the evidence drive our logic.

Do we really have anything that tells us what his plans were? I don't see much but let's look at what Roger didn't do.
1. He did not take extra money with him that we know of.
2. He didn't hitch a ride but road the school bus.
3. He didn't take extra clothes to school.
4. He has never called anyone that we know of.

If you apply those known facts to our 2 scenarios, it means he was coming home after school in choice 1, but he was probably never coming home in choice 2.

Your information is very useful, especially theory #1. The identities of those persons known to have information are in the yearbooks from Cedaredge High School. Most have elected to remain silent. Your suggestion of finding out who was or was not in school is an excellent obseration. I am also hopeful that the schduled remodeling of the school will turn up some evidence. Roger's body has not been found-yet. You are an excellent source for reconstructing the day in the life of a high school student in 1981.Keep posting

 

[CaptAmerica]

There are four areas of the school I am interested in.

 

[Bennettras]

There are four areas of the school I am interested in.

What areas?

 

[justthinkin]

Roger's parents said in the month before he disappeared, he was acting oddly, and seemed to be preoccupied. Source: Charley Project.

So I started thinking about that and the timing, and it occurred to me that something may have happened during the Christmas break that got to Roger. Something that then changed him and changed his demeanor for January and the 9 days in Feb. before his disappearance. Roger may have met someone new on the ski slopes that December, either a guy or a girl, and it was a life altering event. Whoever it was or wherever they met or met up, I believe it goes back to the Christmas holidays when school was out. Something changed then that determined to an extent, Roger's future disappearance, IMO.

Some sources list the backpack as part of the description of the clothes he was wearing which leads me to believe that he didn't leave the backpack at school. This kind of has me wondering what he was planning to put in his now empty backpack if he left all his books at school. Had he stashed money and clothes somewhere? He was a bright young man, and his grades tell me he was organized, and not erratic. If he hadn't needed his backpack wouldn't he have just left it in his locker with his books still in it?

 

[silver1sb]

Roger's parents said in the month before he disappeared, he was acting oddly, and seemed to be preoccupied.

So I started thinking about that and the timing, and it occurred to me that something may have happened during the Christmas break that got to Roger. Something that then changed him and changed his demeanor for January and the 9 days in Feb. before his disappearance. Roger may have met someone new on the ski slopes that December, either a guy or a girl, and it was a life altering event. Whoever it was or wherever they met or met up, I believe it goes back to the Christmas holidays when school was out. Something changed then that determined to an extent, Roger's future disappearance, IMO.

Some sources list the backpack as part of the description of the clothes he was wearing which leads me to believe that he didn't leave the backpack at school. This kind of has me wondering what he was planning to put in his now empty backpack if he left all his books at school. Had he stashed money and clothes somewhere? He was a bright young man, and his grades tell me he was organized, and not erratic. If he hadn't needed his backpack wouldn't he have just left it in his locker with his books still in it?

First of all My parents never said Roger was preoccupied, I don't know where that came from, he was very focused on his school and doing the best he could at the race that was coming up that weekend in Aspen.
HE DID NOT RUN AWAY

 

[Danaya]

First of all My parents never said Roger was preoccupied, I don't know where that came from, he was very focused on his school and doing the best he could at the race that was coming up that weekend in Aspen.
HE DID NOT RUN AWAY

I think most people here don't think he ran away, Silver, justthinkin was just putting an idea out there. We are trying to keep Roger's case alive by discussing it and exhausting all possible scenarios.

Silver, what do you think happened to your brother and did anybody come forward to tell you about some suspicious relationshops your brother may have had? Many people here are spending time discussing Roger's case.

 

[justthinkin]

First of all My parents never said Roger was preoccupied, I don't know where that came from, he was very focused on his school and doing the best he could at the race that was coming up that weekend in Aspen.
HE DID NOT RUN AWAY

I took that idea from Roger's page at the Charley Project. Where they got that info, I don't know. They list several sources. And Danaya is right. I bring things up for discussion, and while I may latch onto a theory, it's only a theory du jour. I'm not married to any one theory 100%.

Were you living at home at the time of Roger's disappearance? Do you know for a fact that something hadn't been troubling him since Christmas vacation because you were able to observe his behavior on a daily basis?

We are here sincerely trying to help find Roger and find out what happened to him. Collectively, we have asked numerous questions in an effort to advance what we know about Roger's disappearance. They have gone unanswered. Your help would be greatly appreciated! I have not dismissed that JP may have had something to do with Roger's disappearance, but without additional info to support that, then all other possibilities must be checked out.