FL FL - Kingfish Boat Ramp Murders, Holmes Beach, 1 Aug 1980

[tapu]

I found it quite odd that Barrows, who spoke better Spanish than English,could identify a New England accent. Something strange about that,IMO.

I was of the same mind until I heard the recording of Barrows describing the crime on the ABC site. His English is 100% native to my (trained) ear. You can hear that he knows Spanish, probably natively, too, by his pronunciation of "Anna Maria." He switches fluently between English/Spanish phonics. His English sounds like a Midwestern accent--which would contrast quite noticeably with a New Eng one--but I'm not so great at identifying those specifically. (Can't imagine why his English sounds as it does, given the background they detail.)

Listen and tell me what you think!

 

[liz b.]

I was of the same mind until I heard the recording of Barrows describing the crime on the ABC site. His English is 100% native to my (trained) ear. You can hear that he knows Spanish, probably natively, too, by his pronunciation of "Anna Maria." He switches fluently between English/Spanish phonics. His English sounds like a Midwestern accent--which would contrast quite noticeably with a New Eng one--but I'm not so great at identifying those specifically. (Can't imagine why his English sounds as it does, given the background they detail.)

Listen and tell me what you think!

Hi,
Raymond Barrows' mother was Cuban, and so was his wife Dora, Maria Dumois' sister. He was very much a cubano, linked in to the Cuban community in Miami. What's weird is that IMO his Eglish sounds accentless .... So,you might have opeed a can of worms with the accent thing LOL...

What I was tryig to say is that I don't really believe his account of what happened, the shooter and the conversation. The shooter's accent might be the least of it all... I mean, Barrows had been shot in the head ! He was in and out of consciousness... in the middle of a terrifying,highly traumatic ordeal.
Or, he might have had reasons for trying to hide what went on.... It was only his word for everything that happened when the shooter appeared....And it was such a vital part of the case..

Although I don't feel this was primarily a political murder(s), I do wonder how well Juan Dumois knew Dr. Orlando Bosch.... Both men were pediatricians,both cubanos in Florida,both involved in exile politics... I'm speculating,but I bet they knew each other...

All JMO

 

[Sleuthster]

What if we are looking at this totally wrong.

Maybe....this was just a robbery. A robbery by a local perp. He doesnt want to leave any witnesses.not well planned. Not a pro. Just someone who saw opportunity, either because he drove by and saw these guys coming back into shore and it took the victims a bit to put the boat back on the trailer, just long enough for the guy to park his car up the road and maybe even snatch a bike from the store or causeway or he saw them spending money prior at a restaurant or bait shop or store and followed them.

I'm thinking that it just doesnt seem like a hit. It does seem like a sociopath who only thinking of his personal gain in some manner killed 4 innocent victims and injured one. There had to be some gain...Shoot the victims grab some money and take off.

 

[liz b.]

What if we are looking at this totally wrong.

Maybe....this was just a robbery. A robbery by a local perp. He doesnt want to leave any witnesses.not well planned. Not a pro. Just someone who saw opportunity, either because he drove by and saw these guys coming back into shore and it took the victims a bit to put the boat back on the trailer, just long enough for the guy to park his car up the road and maybe even snatch a bike from the store or causeway or he saw them spending money prior at a restaurant or bait shop or store and followed them.

I'm thinking that it just doesnt seem like a hit. It does seem like a sociopath who only thinking of his personal gain in some manner killed 4 innocent victims and injured one. There had to be some gain...Shoot the victims grab some money and take off.

Raymond Barrows never mentioned any robbery.He never said that the gunman demanded money before he started shooting. Barrows also never indicated that any of the group was robbed.

Another thing : the shooter had an accomplice waiting for him in the car. He did not do this alone. Seems like if they were into robbery, it would have been more productive for them to have robbed a 7-11 or a liquor store. I also think LE would have solved it long ago,had it been a robbery. This case is deep, IMO...

All JMO

 

[Sleuthster]

Can you direct me to which story on the aniversary states that he had an accomplice? Thanks

 

[Sleuthster]

Also, why do perps car jack people, why are there home invasions, why are their muggings? Because of opportunity. Besides, robbing a store; he may have done this before and too risky. I did not see where he asked for money before the shootings either but he could have taken it from the wallets after shooting the victims. Not sure. If this where the case it was not well thought out. Why would anyone shoot children no matter what the reasoning was? This was not a pro IMO. I've met pro's like I said before they usually walk up and shoot the intended victim (usually with a silencer) and walk away. don't care who sees them. according to news story Barrows heard the shot.

 

[liz b.]

Can you direct me to which story on the aniversary states that he had an accomplice? Thanks

Sleuthster,
Look at the article a few pages back in this thread. It is an article in the Bradenton News. Very informative. I double checked it with the paper...

All JMO

 

[tapu]

Also, why do perps car jack people, why are there home invasions, why are their muggings? Because of opportunity. Besides, robbing a store; he may have done this before and too risky. I did not see where he asked for money before the shootings either but he could have taken it from the wallets after shooting the victims. Not sure. If this where the case it was not well thought out. Why would anyone shoot children no matter what the reasoning was? This was not a pro IMO. I've met pro's like I said before they usually walk up and shoot the intended victim (usually with a silencer) and walk away. don't care who sees them. according to news story Barrows heard the shot.

I'm confused as to what case you're talking about regarding taking money from wallets.

 

[Sleuthster]

I'm confused as to what case you're talking about regarding taking money from wallets.

I was referring to the possibility that this was how he robbed them or was his intent and it didnt happen as the perp planned.

 

[Sleuthster]

BTW, can anyone think of a case wher the mob (italian, cuban, mexican, or anyother) took out a family (including children) in broad day light in the United States? Or a case where they rode a bicycle or disquised themselves in any other manner to do a hit?

 

[liz b.]

BTW, can anyone think of a case wher the mob (italian, cuban, mexican, or anyother) took out a family (including children) in broad day light in the United States? Or a case where they rode a bicycle or disquised themselves in any other manner to do a hit?

No I can't. IMO this had nothing at all to do with the "mob "

All JMO

 

[tapu]

I was referring to the possibility that this was how he robbed them or was his intent and it didnt happen as the perp planned.

You're saying he may have jumped in a car in a public place, immediately shot all four occupants, including two children, in an effort to rob the men of their (two) wallets, but failed in that intention, and then escaped on a bike where someone he had waiting helped him make a get-away? Well... they say anything is possible.

 

[tapu]

BTW, can anyone think of a case wher the mob (italian, cuban, mexican, or anyother) took out a family (including children) in broad day light in the United States? Or a case where they rode a bicycle or disquised themselves in any other manner to do a hit?

Anyone know of a pickpocket who did this? (We're narrowing it down, I think.)

 

[Sleuthster]

Actually we are discussing possibilities. Anything is possible and BTW it doesnt say in any of the stories one way or the other whether anything was missing from the vehicle or from the victims. It also doesnt state that they specifically where looking at a mob hit. If you go to google archieves (I believe I posted links to some of the stories on here at one time) the suspects they had questioned where basically of the low life mugg an old man robb a convienent store grifter variety so LE must have been looking at this MO at some point.

Glad this has helped you narrow it down.

 

[liz b.]

There is,however, no indication that this was a robbery. Raymond Barrows would have said so, if that was the case. It's pretty certain that LE would have asked Barrows. And, there were prints,one good one on the boat from the shooter, and 77 other unidentified prints on the car. Highly likely that someone of the shooter's estimated age would have prints on file, if the shooter was into such impulsive strongarm robberies, IMO

I know that all Mariel boatlift people were fingerprinted when they got to Florida. Those prints must be around someplace.... I would love to find out if the Mariel prints were ever checked against all of the prints on the car and the boat....

I would like to be able to rule out any Marielito(s).... and then look at some other possibilities...

All JMO

 

[CrimeSolver]

I have no doubt AFIS checks have been done on those prints. That would be one of the first and most obvious avenues of investigation at this point.

 

[Sleuthster]

I read in one of the recent news stories that the prints where run again several years later, I'm thinking it said 90's.Anyone else remember seeing that? I hope they where run more then once.
Also, one of the stories showed a pic of a police bulletin sent out right after the shootings and it said they where looking for someone early 20's with different physical features.

 

[liz b.]

I have no doubt AFIS checks have been done on those prints. That would be one of the first and most obvious avenues of investigation at this point.

I would love for that to be the case. Is there a link to that information ? I was in touch with one of the journalists who did an anniversary piece, I think I'll contact them again, and ask about it....

I would like to know that all Marielitos were eliminated, as I just started explorinmg another theory....

All JMO

 

[liz b.]

I read in one of the recent news stories that the prints where run again several years later, I'm thinking it said 90's.Anyone else remember seeing that? I hope they where run more then once.
Also, one of the stories showed a pic of a police bulletin sent out right after the shootings and it said they where looking for someone early 20's with different physical features.

Yes,Sleuthster, the prints have been rerun over the years. But, I wondered about the location of the files of prints taken from the Mariel boatlift people...

All JMO

 

[tapu]

Also, why do perps car jack people, why are there home invasions, why are their muggings? Because of opportunity. Besides, robbing a store; he may have done this before and too risky. I did not see where he asked for money before the shootings either but he could have taken it from the wallets after shooting the victims. Not sure. If this where the case it was not well thought out. Why would anyone shoot children no matter what the reasoning was? This was not a pro IMO. I've met pro's like I said before they usually walk up and shoot the intended victim (usually with a silencer) and walk away. don't care who sees them. according to news story Barrows heard the shot.

How did I miss this before?? You gotta tell! Or at least give us some idea of how you had the... displeasure... of hearing about this from them. Brrrr!