CA CA - Mitrice Richardson, 24, Malibu, 17 Sep 2009

[Natal]

Either way, Mitrice is dead, so I don't mean to belabor this point, but I just have to respond to this, Natal.

My issue isn't that they released Mitrice. She's a grown woman who said she had no mental problems. Clearly they had no right to keep her. They even--allegedly--offered to let her stay in the lobby. I find no fault in releasing a grown woman from jail.
My problem is that they SPECIFICALLY told her mother that they WOULD NOT release her until the following morning. Her mother specifically stated that she would not know where she was or how to get around.....she said that Mitrice would be lost in that city, that the city was dangerous, and that she would be worried for Mitrice's safety were she released. Mitrice's mother mentioned SPECIFICALLY that she would drive down THAT NIGHT and pick Mitrice up from the jail if they planned on releasing her that evening. The officer on the phone said that she wouldn't be released. People TRUST LE.....and I think that she believed him---rightfully so---that he wouldn't let her daughter be released until the following day, that her daughter wouldn't be placed in the exact place and situation she so feared. Was this just him talking to fill space, was he being nice (if not truthful). All he would have to do is tell Mitrice's mother that Mitrice would be released that night.....that he wasn't sure when she'd be released, etc.

Further, Mitrice was released with NO money, identification, or vehicle. I think--in that circumstance--LE have an obligation to 'protect and serve'. NOTHING about allowing a 21 year old girl to walk around in a strange city without money, id, or a vehicle is classified as 'protecting and serving' Mitrice!

I think there is more than one person working at the jail. The person the mother spoke to is likely not the person who released Mitrice. In any event, since Mitrice was an adult, her mother doesn't get to have a say in if she should be kept the night, released, when or how, or even if she should be informed. Those are Mitrice's rights and responsibilities, if she chose not to let her mother know for whatever reason, that is her right and her right alone.

A 21 year old is a grown woman, she is not a "girl" or a child. She can walk wherever and whenever she wants, she does not require her mother's permission or LEs permission as long as she isn't violating any law. In any case you are forgetting that she was offered to stay in the lobby multiple times. LE couldn't do much more than that without breaking the law themselves. Is that what you expected them to do? these jails see a constant stream of people, mostly young men and women, who are behaving poorly and/or not making the best decisions. The only thing exceptional about Mitrice's case is that she dissappeared and wound up dead, something they could not possibly have known would happen. So why should they have behaved differently for her than they do for everybody else?

 

[hollyblue]

Either way, Mitrice is dead, so I don't mean to belabor this point, but I just have to respond to this, Natal.

My issue isn't that they released Mitrice. She's a grown woman who said she had no mental problems. Clearly they had no right to keep her. They even--allegedly--offered to let her stay in the lobby. I find no fault in releasing a grown woman from jail.
My problem is that they SPECIFICALLY told her mother that they WOULD NOT release her until the following morning. Her mother specifically stated that she would not know where she was or how to get around.....she said that Mitrice would be lost in that city, that the city was dangerous, and that she would be worried for Mitrice's safety were she released. Mitrice's mother mentioned SPECIFICALLY that she would drive down THAT NIGHT and pick Mitrice up from the jail if they planned on releasing her that evening. The officer on the phone said that she wouldn't be released. People TRUST LE.....and I think that she believed him---rightfully so---that he wouldn't let her daughter be released until the following day, that her daughter wouldn't be placed in the exact place and situation she so feared. Was this just him talking to fill space, was he being nice (if not truthful). All he would have to do is tell Mitrice's mother that Mitrice would be released that night.....that he wasn't sure when she'd be released, etc.

Further, Mitrice was released with NO money, identification, or vehicle. I think--in that circumstance--LE have an obligation to 'protect and serve'. NOTHING about allowing a 21 year old girl to walk around in a strange city without money, id, or a vehicle is classified as 'protecting and serving' Mitrice!

Attached is a transcript of her mother's conversation with LE. Nowhere, IMO, was she told Mitrice would not be released. I think there was a misunderstanding or miscomprehension. I realize that Latrice was upset and prolly nervous, but she should've asked directly...and waited on a specific answer regarding her daughter's booking and release. I still think we are missing a conversation also.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1cmlAQnGNyQP1Tswi81MNsH7XUDvv7kJfDneXXqXSG_A

 

[Natal]

When asked if she had any mental problems, she said no. That clearly flies in the face of a talk she'd had with the teacher where they discussed that she was bipolar.

I think she assumed she'd be taken to a psych ward if she answered truthfully. If I thought they were going to commit me I'd answer no too!

That's a daunting thought isn't it? I wonder how many people say "Yes, I'm having mental problems, please commit me for my own good."

Lots of people are bipolar, it is common. You don't get committed for that.

The only reason for holding her over for a psych exam would have been if she was behaving extremely psychotically at the jail itself, and apparently she wasn't. Just behaving oddly isn't enough, if it were they would be sending every second person walking through the jailhouse doors to the local hospital.

 

[nervous_nellie]

There seem to be two potential moments of culpability here -- chronologically, the first was whether M'trice should have been released as she was, and the second was whether anyone had direct responsibility for murder.

I think the biggest culprit here is an overall lack of humanity and decency on the part of many people beginning at the restaraunt and ending when she walked out the door at the police department.

First, 89 dollars on a bill that was volunteered to be paid. Maybe California is different, but I can call Pizza Hut here in NC and give my credit card number and they will deliver pizzas to my children at home when I am at work or otherwise unable to be at home to feed them. They don't refuse because I don't fax them a signature. (You can pay for nearly everything on the planet with a credit card WITHOUT a signature.) Why did they feel it so necessary to send someone to jail for less than 90 dollars and not just attempt to take the credit card from her grandmother?

Were the owners or managers criminally responsible? Of course not, but when you look at another human being in the eyes and make judgments on situations that are so obviously bizarre without wondering what may be going on behind it or without feeling anything other than aggravation or disdain, then maybe the next person you should look in the eyes should be yourself.

Secondly, it may be procedure to release (dump) a beautiful young woman out on the streets in the dark in the middle of nowhere without money or a phone and WAY far from home at the PD. So, officially that alone does not make them criminally culpable. However, morally there are so many things they could have done.

Since when do we not care about another living, breathing human? I just cannot fathom being a civil servant with no spirit of servitude. I've worked in medicine for many years and I know that we tend to get hardened to the drug seekers and the malingerers and people who use the ERs like a doctor's office, etc.; however, if you allow yourself to pass judgment on everybody who comes in the doors based on the patients you have seen before, then somebody who really needs your help is going to receive inadequate or inappropriate treatment for their illness. Each case is individual and if someone has become so hardened or so burned out by their job that everybody is bad and you have no generalized concern for a HUMAN, then it's time to find a new profession. Following the book is not an excuse for not following or having a conscience.

Small seemingly inconsequential decisions made by numerous people that night equalled the death of this beautiful young woman. Sad, sad, sad. There were so many people whose path she crossed that night who had the ability to be a hero, unfortunately none of them were up to the task.

FANTASTIC POST :woohoo:

 

[nervous_nellie]

also welcome MandyJayne, nice to meet you

 

[hollyblue]

The truth is that if she knew she had a diagnosis but was stable and under treatment, she may have been able to be rational enough to recognize and discuss her diagnosis and treatment with her professor. Another issue is that when a person with a mental illness is in either a manic, hypomanic or otherwise unstable situation, THEY DO NOT THINK THEY HAVE PROBLEMS. They feel SOO good that they do not want the medications. Being manic feels amazing (or so I'm told). They are much more creative, much more confident, and feel invincible. Medication removes their false euphoric state and sometimes even makes them feel depressed or feel that they have lost their artistic or creative abilities. There is no "great drug" out there that works for everyone in the same way and many patients with chronic mental illness cycle on and off drugs numerous times throughout their illness. In an acute psychotic phase, the last person to know that the ill person is ill is the ill person.

She may not have been lying to the officer, but rather giving them her delusional version of the truth.

Mental illness is horrible because of the stigma that is attached to it and the lack of available good care. Walking the tightrope between a patient who needs care but is still "competent" and a patient who requires care because of incompetence is a slippery slope for practitioners and so many many people who could be much more productive, healthy, safe members of society are able to slide by without forced care because they can tie their shoes and remember to eat on their own. (Simplified, but hopefully you understand what I mean.) I'm not an advocate of mandatory medication because that dehumanizes the individual and their God-given right to freedom, but where exactly should we draw the line and on which side do you err?

Great post.

That's just it. We have no confirmation she was ever clinically diagnosed. The closest comment I have seen is "I believe she may have been diagnosed.", which is not exactly clear or a speaking of a known fact.

JMO, but if they are a serious threat to themselves or society, I think mandatory medications are humane, but I too, think our world is way too over-medicated and that other conventional and alternative measures along with good therapy should be utilized. Unfortunately, we are becoming a pop the pill mentality too readily and with a laxed attitude on true health. Dulling the symptoms and never taking the problem straight on.

As with many people in a depressed state or feeling a little down, she may have been self medicating. Many people do.. with just pot, alcohol, or other addictions....everyday.

All IMO, of course.

 

[MandiJayne]

Wondering if scent dogs were ever brought in to that porch to verify her being there? Seems I remember reading (trying to get caught up here) they did and her scent was not found in that area.

Yes, dogs were brought to the home and did pick up her scent, but the trail went basically nowhere. The article below gives way more information that I had seen so far on the odd coincidences involved in the case. (The police officer who's daughter plays on Mitrice's sister's team was really interesting, though I put little weight on the reasoning behind his pushing for her removal having anything to do with the aftermath of the disappearance.)

If nothing else, if this source is credible, then the whole scenario just feels so strange to me.

http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/cms/story/detail/?id=9099

 

[MandiJayne]

Lots of people are bipolar, it is common. You don't get committed for that.

]

Yes, and no. Normally you would never know that a bipolar person is bipolar. Even the ones who are not necessarily under great control can come off as super friendly, extra exuberant and bubbly, and ultragenerous. That is why a lot of times people in a manic state can be taken advantage of without a whole lot of effort.

However, most of what I do right now is psychiatric reports for a major teaching hospital. Probably 60-75% of the patients who are admitted daily have some sort of bipolar affective disorder that is not under control. There is a major potential for delusional thoughts, auditory or visual hallucinations, or complete psychotic breaks with bipolar disorder. If, as was reported, she truly did not sleep for 5 days prior to the evening in question, she would have had major cognitive issues based on that fact alone. People in acute manic phases can and do often go days without sleep because they are like the little cars you wind up and watch go running around the floor when you're a kid. They often have serious grandiosity issues during those times and believe things about themselves that just are not true, including that they have powers or abilities that they do not have.

So, basically, the majority of bipolar patients are not in the hospital and may not ever be hospitalized at any point in their lifetime, but when there is a serious break in their stability and often when the initial onset happens, they will be hospitalized until they are stable and are no longer a threat to themselves or potentially to others.

 

[MandiJayne]

also welcome MandyJayne, nice to meet you

Thanks, Nellie. It is very nice to meet you as well. I've been the consummate lurker for a very long time. I found this site back when the Anthony case was first breaking. Don't know what took me so long to decide to participate. Actually, everybody does such a good job on these cases I have very little to add, but MUCH to learn from the pros around here.

 

[MandiJayne]

Unfortunately, we are becoming a pop the pill mentality too readily and with a laxed attitude on true health. Dulling the symptoms and never taking the problem straight on.

As with many people in a depressed state or feeling a little down, she may have been self medicating. Many people do.. with just pot, alcohol, or other addictions....everyday.

All IMO, of course.

I TOTALLY agree with you. There are so many alternative therapies that would help with a lot of the smaller issues that we all face on a daily basis and would work better, last longer, and no chance of side effects. If only we all practiced yoga, meditation or other forms of selfawareness and relaxation that forced us to look inside ourselves for peace and to respect the differences in all of us then a whole lot of the angst in today's world would be gone as it just simply could not exist if we were all calm and more at peace with ourselves and with each other. We don't have to all agree on everything, we just have to realize that it's not our job to impose our ideas or beliefs on the next person and they have the right to their own thoughts and passions - but a little more complex than that simplified statement.

Anyway, that's off topic...but I agree medication should be the last resort or at least used in conjunction with some type of behavioral therapy. Much to our detriment we have become a pill-popping nation. Of course, how could we not since we allow all the pharmaceutical companies to advertise Rx medications to people incapable of writing a Rx. Drug companies are so deeply intrenched in Washington, I dont see it changing but nothing would make me happier than to see prescription advertisements go away. If the drug works, the doctor will prescribe it to the people who need it instead of people coming in and asking for medications they have no clue if they need and then getting angry when the doctor tells them they do not have an indication for the med. (again off topic).

Speaking of self-medicating, I always think it is odd when people think they have no one in their families who have any mental health issues because nobody takes drugs. Then you find out they have uncle Jim Bob who is a raging alcoholic and cousin Sue who is strung out on heroin or even they themselves smoke a bowl or two to unwind from the day. Every single one of them are using a mental health drug, they just don't recognize it as such.

I truly believe there was more to her situation than meets the eye. Finding out that at least parts of her family were dead set against her public lesbianism leads me to think that she was under so much pressure and was such an overachiever with unbelievable expectations placed on her that nearly anyone could have cracked under that type of pressure. Even watching the Youtube films of her mother at the press conference outside the coroner's office when she kept pointing to the picture of mitrice and saying, "This is my daughter, she was MY future." That gave me the creeps a bit, you should never saddle yourself to your children coattails. How will they ever be able to fly when they have to pull you with them? I cannot imagine the worries and responsibilities she must have felt in the time period surrounding her death. I hope her soul rests peacefully now. There are many lessons in this whole story we all could take to heart and apply in our own lives, that is for sure. (BIG FAT IMO on this one)

 

[rossva]

Not exactly completely true. She had her id when she left.

"Richardson said she would rather leave. At 12:15 a.m., she left with the possessions she came in with — her shirt and jeans, a brown hat and pink belt; two keys and her driver's license — signing a citation promising to return to the Malibu courthouse on Nov. 16, 2009."

"She was released from custody early Sept. 17 without her cellphone or purse — neither of which she had on her at the restaurant when she was arrested."

http://mobile.latimes.com/wap/news/t...=2&title=Local

Further, Mitrice was released with NO money, identification, or vehicle. I think--in that circumstance--LE have an obligation to 'protect and serve'. NOTHING about allowing a 21 year old girl to walk around in a strange city without money, id, or a vehicle is classified as 'protecting and serving' Mitrice!

 

[UCLAEigenguy]

I totally missed your post JBean. Thanks!



Thanks for quoting JBean Aimee, I almost missed it.
I put a marker in the approximate location on my map. Looks like very rough terrain!

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...19,-118.672857&spn=0.033024,0.066047&t=h&z=15

I'm glad the media finally published a map with an approximate location. All other statements were way off. This is about 0.5-1 miles away from where she was last seen, not 2.5.

As I suspected, she was east of where she was last seen, and that is angering. Obviously if she was not in the canyon, search somewhere else. Of course, since she was in such dense foliage, I guess LE was lucky to find her.

Awaiting autopsy results. Hard to believe she was dumped there and hard to believe that she just died there. Maybe an animal moved her body? Or, she could have been so distraught over the whole incident and the fact that she was now lost that she killed herself.

 

[Paulette]

I'm glad the media finally published a map with an approximate location. All other statements were way off. This is about 0.5-1 miles away from where she was last seen, not 2.5.

As I suspected, she was east of where she was last seen, and that is angering. Obviously if she was not in the canyon, search somewhere else. Of course, since she was in such dense foliage, I guess LE was lucky to find her.

Awaiting autopsy results. Hard to believe she was dumped there and hard to believe that she just died there. Maybe an animal moved her body? Or, she could have been so distraught over the whole incident and the fact that she was now lost that she killed herself.

Did you read where she may not have slept for 5 days? Her father deduced that from reading her journals. She may have fell asleep at this spot and then couldn't negotiate her way out. No water - last meal at Geoffrey's - she may have just collapsed. So very sad.

 

[hollyblue]

I agree with others here that this case has many layers and it's no telling which way it may turn. Shouldn't the autopsy report be available soon? Seems the legalities of her disappearance have sort of glazed over the fact that if it was foul play....we have a murderer running around. Unfortunate the house she was seen at didn't have security camera for a good ID.

So many questions.

Would anyone know why they would want her father's DNA, beside him being a suspect?

Is there any possibility she was angered with someone who worked at the restaurant...hence maybe her revenge, in her own way? Did someone at Geoffreys visit her club? Did they ever confirm her rummaging thru someone's car there and who? How did she access that vehicle? Unlocked? Maybe she had anger issues and just decided to make a spectacle and cause a ruckus there for some reason, although, very bad choice.????

 

[MandiJayne]

Would anyone know why they would want her father's DNA, beside him being a suspect??

I believe they asked him shortly after she went missing for identification purposes if and when they were able to find her. I think his refusal was dumb, but I'm also not a black man in LA who is suspicious of the police---so I really cannot put myself in his shoes as far as that decision goes. (He made some reference to Mark Furman..which I will not even give my opinion on because I really don't want to be banned or given a timeout.) I honestly don't see any other motive behind LEs asking other than just to be proactive in their search for Mitrice.

 

[hollyblue]

I believe they asked him shortly after she went missing for identification purposes if and when they were able to find her. I think his refusal was dumb, but I'm also not a black man in LA who is suspicious of the police---so I really cannot put myself in his shoes as far as that decision goes. (He made some reference to Mark Furman..which I will not even give my opinion on because I really don't want to be banned or given a timeout.) I honestly don't see any other motive behind LEs asking other than just to be proactive in their search for Mitrice.

Wouldn't they have her DNA from a tooth or hair brush though? I think after a bit of time, they request dental records from the family too.

 

[Salem]

Did you read where she may not have slept for 5 days? Her father deduced that from reading her journals. She may have fell asleep at this spot and then couldn't negotiate her way out. No water - last meal at Geoffrey's - she may have just collapsed. So very sad.

This information needs to be linked. Where did you read that she had not slept for 5 days?

TIA,

Salem

 

[RubyRed]

I'd love to read it, can you provide link? TIA

The officer says right in the document that reading was for 30 seconds, when you x it by 2 Mitrice was in the normal range.


His second reading was 38 bpm in 30 sec.

38 x 2 = 76

Normal range is between 60 and 90 bpm.


direct link

http://www.bringmitricehome.org/Report.jpg


main page for her website

http://www.bringmitricehome.org/The-Facts.html

 

[RubyRed]

This information needs to be linked. Where did you read that she had not slept for 5 days?

TIA,

Salem

Here is a link for it.

Richardson said he only now realizes that she was also bedeviled by a mental disorder.


In the five days leading up to her arrest, she apparently had not slept, instead phoning, texting, making entries on her MySpace and Facebook pages and writing in her journals around the clock.
“It’s hard to find a spot when she rested,” Knolls said of the sequence of events.

http://www.jasmynecannick.com/blog/?p=7946

 

[KeenEyes]

I couldn't snip a single word, not even for the sake of space:

I think the biggest culprit here is an overall lack of humanity and decency on the part of many people beginning at the restaraunt and ending when she walked out the door at the police department.

First, 89 dollars on a bill that was volunteered to be paid. Maybe California is different, but I can call Pizza Hut here in NC and give my credit card number and they will deliver pizzas to my children at home when I am at work or otherwise unable to be at home to feed them. They don't refuse because I don't fax them a signature. (You can pay for nearly everything on the planet with a credit card WITHOUT a signature.) Why did they feel it so necessary to send someone to jail for less than 90 dollars and not just attempt to take the credit card from her grandmother?

Were the owners or managers criminally responsible? Of course not, but when you look at another human being in the eyes and make judgments on situations that are so obviously bizarre without wondering what may be going on behind it or without feeling anything other than aggravation or disdain, then maybe the next person you should look in the eyes should be yourself.

Secondly, it may be procedure to release (dump) a beautiful young woman out on the streets in the dark in the middle of nowhere without money or a phone and WAY far from home at the PD. So, officially that alone does not make them criminally culpable. However, morally there are so many things they could have done.

Since when do we not care about another living, breathing human? I just cannot fathom being a civil servant with no spirit of servitude. I've worked in medicine for many years and I know that we tend to get hardened to the drug seekers and the malingerers and people who use the ERs like a doctor's office, etc.; however, if you allow yourself to pass judgment on everybody who comes in the doors based on the patients you have seen before, then somebody who really needs your help is going to receive inadequate or inappropriate treatment for their illness. Each case is individual and if someone has become so hardened or so burned out by their job that everybody is bad and you have no generalized concern for a HUMAN, then it's time to find a new profession. Following the book is not an excuse for not following or having a conscience.

Small seemingly inconsequential decisions made by numerous people that night equalled the death of this beautiful young woman. Sad, sad, sad. There were so many people whose path she crossed that night who had the ability to be a hero, unfortunately none of them were up to the task.

:gold_crown: :clap: