Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother

[SheBoss]

Taken from DOI (I love my search feature on Kindle!)...

...when Fleet White brought Burke to the house, Patsy tearfully put her arm around him, "Honey," she said, "JonBenet has gone to heaven."
He hugged Patsy and acknowldged her works by a nod of his head, and then went to the downstairs playroom with the Fernies' son. Burke seemed unable to face JonBenet's death; it was just too difficult for him to process at the time...

Sorry, I can't tell you what page it is, as Kindle doesn't have "pages", but it at location 601-9, 7% through the book.

 

[Roy23]

Burke was interviewed alone and thoroughly after the crime. Part of the reason no doubt, was social services wanted to find out if there was a history of abuse in the family. Burke was allowed to be interviewed alone, and I can't imagine any 9 year old kid sticking to a story that he may have been told to tell---I believe he told the truth based on what he remembered. I think he went to bed, tucked in by JR, and knew nothing until he heard his parents the next morning....and then was whisked out the house. No one was around him telling him to say and what not to say. He was spared the emotional trauma that developed in the house after JBR was found.

The only thing I can think of is there "might" be someone of interest that could have talked to Burke before 12/25.

I totally agree Maikai. I think it is possible that Burke may have been somehow connected to someone in the neighborhood that police suspect in JBR's death. It could be a parent of one of his friends or something. Those trying to pin this on a Ramsey need to calm some, remember that the foreign DNA is legit according to experts. I sure hope they have some new clues.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I believe that LE knows that BR knows how JB died. He is a grown man now and they are hoping that his love and or guilt feelings for his sister will somehow outweigh his committment to his mother's memory. I believe that everyone in the Ramsey/Paugh families know exactly what happened that night and their love/sympathy for Patsy's condition insured their silence. I would love to be wrong and I'm not certain that it was Patsy who actually harmed JB, but I am certain that she did the cover-up. No doubt whatsoever in my mind. I truly wish their was.

 

[SheBoss]

I just find it odd that throughout this whole thing, the Ramseys' stories/memories have changed like the wind: JB asleep Christmas night or not, what P dressed her in for sleeping, what she did with the panties, P was dressed or not when coming down the stairs on the 26th, she went to JB's room before/after the RN was found, etc. But NO WHERE AT NO TIME has the story of Burke being asleep that morning ever wavered. Not a single detail can the Ramseys remember correctly, except that one.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I just find it odd that throughout this whole thing, the Ramseys' stories/memories have changed like the wind: JB asleep Christmas night or not, what P dressed her in for sleeping, what she did with the panties, P was dressed or not when coming down the stairs on the 26th, she went to JB's room before/after the RN was found, etc. But NO WHERE AT NO TIME has the story of Burke being asleep that morning ever wavered. Not a single detail can the Ramseys remember correctly, except that one.

Actually it did waiver. I need to go find the exact time that it happened, but John did finally "remember" that Burke had been awake although he never left his bed. It's been discussed on one of the threads in the last couple of days so I will see if I can't find you a link.

 

[cynic]

I...remember that the foreign DNA is legit according to experts.

The DNA is legit according to ML, that does not make it legit.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Actually it did waiver. I need to go find the exact time that it happened, but John did finally "remember" that Burke had been awake although he never left his bed. It's been discussed on one of the threads in the last couple of days so I will see if I can't find you a link.

Sorry to quote myself but I figured it was the easiest way to show what I'm talking about here.
KoldKase posted it in post # 14 on the "Who Has Heard Burke on the 911 Call" thread. Sorry, I don't know how to link directly to the post.
Becky

 

[Roy23]

The DNA is legit according to ML, that does not make it legit.

If this was only the case, then maybe you would have an argument. Unfortunately it was some of the best DNA labs in the world that explained it to ML. I can buy that completely exonerating the R's could give some folks an issue but someone else's DNA was forcefully left on her body that night.

 

[cynic]

I can buy that completely exonerating the R's could give some folks an issue but someone else's DNA was forcefully left on her body that night.

DNA of this type can be left by a number of different means. Unknown male DNA was found, but to say, definitively, that it was forcibly deposited by an intruder is premature. The exoneration illustrated both the recklessness and bias of ML.

 

[KoldKase]

If this was only the case, then maybe you would have an argument. Unfortunately it was some of the best DNA labs in the world that explained it to ML. I can buy that completely exonerating the R's could give some folks an issue but someone else's DNA was forcefully left on her body that night.

Forcefully? So "forcefully" that it took them 12 years to get a full profile?

I'm afraid the exaggeration of Mary Lacy, who had been working very hard to "clear" the Ramseys since the murder happened, doesn't make her irresponsible, unethical pronouncements about an "intruder" true. She's not a judge, nor a jury, and she alone cannot test the evidence in a court of law, especially without even presenting it at trial. She was only a prosecutor, and one who never managed to charge anyone with JonBenet's murder, at that.

Bode Technology can also not determine that the DNA sample they managed to lift in fact belonged to any intruder or killer. They're a lab, not a court, not a judge nor jury, and it's not their job nor their expertise to declare how the evidence came to rest on the clothing the lab tested.

That's the whole problem with this case: so many people take bits and pieces of what they know, add in what they want to believe about it, and come up with superfluous pronouncements leading to the conclusion they want. Intruder Smit came up with so many, based on speculation by his own accounts, that it's criminal how badly he damaged the case with his public relations propaganda.

No one knows how that DNA got on the clothing, nor when. Not until they source it will that question be answered. It very well could have been artifact, contamination from transference during the crime or processing the body, or many other ways. For Lacy to make use her office as a platform for the Ramseys was unprofessional and unconscionable, as the DA of Boulder whose job it was to prosecute the case, not shill for the Ramseys. Same with Hunter. When the DA is using his/her office to aid the prime suspects, then who is left to speak for the People or the victim? Nobody, that's who. And that's who has been speaking for JonBenet for 14 years now, thanks to the job her rich, influential parents did. JMO.

 

[sunnygal]

I remember reading some where that Burke was taken to some where at 7am.

 

[KoldKase]

Burke was interviewed alone and thoroughly after the crime. Part of the reason no doubt, was social services wanted to find out if there was a history of abuse in the family. Burke was allowed to be interviewed alone, and I can't imagine any 9 year old kid sticking to a story that he may have been told to tell---I believe he told the truth based on what he remembered. I think he went to bed, tucked in by JR, and knew nothing until he heard his parents the next morning....and then was whisked out the house. No one was around him telling him to say and what not to say. He was spared the emotional trauma that developed in the house after JBR was found.

The only thing I can think of is there "might" be someone of interest that could have talked to Burke before 12/25.

I go back and forth about Burke. I can't say it wasn't possible for him to have committed some of the elements of the crime, but then I, too, have difficulty figuring out how he could have kept such secrets all his life if he was or knew some terrible secrets.

But the Ramseys told the NE reporters that Burke was awake and heard his parents screaming, but pretended to be asleep. I can't understand why he would not have immediately revealed he was awake and sought the comfort of his parents when they entered the room, if they did in fact, as they said many times.

This is where the Ramseys run into trouble with their (changing) versions of what happened that night. John and Patsy said they didn't know Burke was awake when they checked on him, one or both, depending on which time they told it. But John then said Burke had tears in his eyes. John was either embellishing the story and slipped up, or something isn't adding up.

Whether you believe Burke's voice is on the 911 enhanced tape or not, clearly the BPD believes it, so think about this: any new investigation, with "fresh eyes" in law enforcement, is going to look at all the most important pieces of evidence and want to clear up the huge problems in the case. Eliminating the family is STILL at the top of the list, I think, that inner circle who only looked more suspicious with every act of evasion, every attempt to stall or hamper the investigation, and every lie they told to LE during interviews, and there were many, IMO.

Here's one example: as has been recently pointed out here by either Ames or DeeDee (?), how can Patsy have put the Bloomies in JonBenet's panty drawer, which LE cleaned out, yet turn them over to Lacy five years later? Yet Patsy told LE in Atlanta in 2000 that's exactly what she did. She clearly lied. Even as she admitted she knew the importance of those Bloomies in the case.

 

[Toltec]

How could Burke possibly forget that night when to this day he is bombarded with his sisters murder.

I hope the DA plays the 911 tape to Burke...

 

[BBB167893]

Those trying to pin this on a Ramsey need to calm some, remember that the foreign DNA is legit according to experts. I sure hope they have some new clues.

Welcome back, stranger.

 

[BBB167893]

I go back and forth about Burke. I can't say it wasn't possible for him to have committed some of the elements of the crime, but then I, too, have difficulty figuring out how he could have kept such secrets all his life if he was or knew some terrible secrets.

But the Ramseys told the NE reporters that Burke was awake and heard his parents screaming, but pretended to be asleep. I can't understand why he would not have immediately revealed he was awake and sought the comfort of his parents when they entered the room, if they did in fact, as they said many times.

This is where the Ramseys run into trouble with their (changing) versions of what happened that night. John and Patsy said they didn't know Burke was awake when they checked on him, one or both, depending on which time they told it. But John then said Burke had tears in his eyes. John was either embellishing the story and slipped up, or something isn't adding up.

Whether you believe Burke's voice is on the 911 enhanced tape or not, clearly the BPD believes it, so think about this: any new investigation, with "fresh eyes" in law enforcement, is going to look at all the most important pieces of evidence and want to clear up the huge problems in the case. Eliminating the family is STILL at the top of the list, I think, that inner circle who only looked more suspicious with every act of evasion, every attempt to stall or hamper the investigation, and every lie they told to LE during interviews, and there were many, IMO.

Here's one example: as has been recently pointed out here by either Ames or DeeDee (?), how can Patsy have put the Bloomies in JonBenet's panty drawer, which LE cleaned out, yet turn them over to Lacy five years later? Yet Patsy told LE in Atlanta in 2000 that's exactly what she did. She clearly lied. Even as she admitted she knew the importance of those Bloomies in the case.

I'd use this as my signature, if it would fit!

 

[cynic]

Forcefully? So "forcefully" that it took them 12 years to get a full profile?

I'm afraid the exaggeration of Mary Lacy, who had been working very hard to "clear" the Ramseys since the murder happened, doesn't make her irresponsible, unethical pronouncements about an "intruder" true. She's not a judge, nor a jury, and she alone cannot test the evidence in a court of law, especially without even presenting it at trial. She was only a prosecutor, and one who never managed to charge anyone with JonBenet's murder, at that.

Bode Technology can also not determine that the DNA sample they managed to lift in fact belonged to any intruder or killer. They're a lab, not a court, not a judge nor jury, and it's not their job nor their expertise to declare how the evidence came to rest on the clothing the lab tested.

That's the whole problem with this case: so many people take bits and pieces of what they know, add in what they want to believe about it, and come up with superfluous pronouncements leading to the conclusion they want. Intruder Smit came up with so many, based on speculation by his own accounts, that it's criminal how badly he damaged the case with his public relations propaganda.

No one knows how that DNA got on the clothing, nor when. Not until they source it will that question be answered. It very well could have been artifact, contamination from transference during the crime or processing the body, or many other ways. For Lacy to make use her office as a platform for the Ramseys was unprofessional and unconscionable, as the DA of Boulder whose job it was to prosecute the case, not shill for the Ramseys. Same with Hunter. When the DA is using his/her office to aid the prime suspects, then who is left to speak for the People or the victim? Nobody, that's who. And that's who has been speaking for JonBenet for 14 years now, thanks to the job her rich, influential parents did. JMO.

:clap:
One quibble, you are giving them too much credit, they still don’t have a full profile. A full CODIS profile has 13 markers. They have 9 ½, which they tweaked up to 10 markers to meet the minimum standard for upload to CODIS.

 

[DeeDee249]

I remember reading some where that Burke was taken to some where at 7am.

BR was taken to the home of FW that morning; he and FW's son were friends.

 

[s_finch]

Yes, his voice can be heard asking "What dd you find?" And then John saying..."We are not speaking to you". IMO...he overheard Patsy on the 911 call, talking about finding something (the ransom note), and he walked in and said..."What did you find?"

Question for those who don't think it was Burke's voice on the 911 call. IF it wasn't Burke to whom John said "We are not speaking to you", then who was it? Hmmmmmmm, can't imagine him speaking that way to another adult in this particular situation so who could it have been????

 

[s_finch]

I so disagree with the posters here that say Burke would not be able to remember. I am over 50 and I can recall almost word for word several instances when I was 9 years old. Given this was probably one of the most intense traumas of his life to date, I bet he has that night burned in his memory. I remember lying quietly at night and listening to adult conversation for most of the night. He may be quite aware of the happenings that night and many other nights as well. I hope he will talk to detectives. There is a good possibility he is ready to unload.

I agree that he most probably remembers every detail from that night/morning. However, whether or not he was involved at all in JBR's death, I don't believe he'll ever talk. Speaking out wouldn't satisfy the public's hunger for more and more info, it would only begin an avalanche of more questions, more theories, more drama, and guaratee him even less of a life than he's had for the last 14 years. If Burke struck his sister in anger that night and "began" this whole ordeal, he has more than paid for it. If he "knows" his parents are guilty one could argue that Burke would relieve himself of a huge burden by telling all but do you think that would really happen? He'd find himself in a legal war with his dad, and his dad has the $$$, he'd find himself at the center of attention of all the media hounds and LE. His father's lawyers would find a way to discount what Burke says or at least do a good enough job that if it went to trial it would probably end in a hung jury. Coming forward would be suicide for Burke. Yes, we all want to know what happened, but I don't think the info will come from Burke. I wish him peace and hope he is finding it, somehow.

 

[K777angel]

BR was taken to the home of FW that morning; he and FW's son were friends.

We really need to stop and ponder on this. IF, as John and Patsy claim, someone crept into their home on Christmas night, abducted their 6 yr old daughter from her bed, tortured, abused and murdered her right under their noses in their home, and then left a 3 page letter full of threats of death - would they REALLY volunteer their young son to not just leave their side, but their HOUSE? And galavant across town to hang out somewhere? Somewhere away from their watchful eye and protection - while there is "someone" out there claiming to be WATCHING THEM? Someone who had, at that point before JonBenet's body was "found", kidnapped her, according to what John & Patsy claim to have believed during this time!
So if they BELIEVED that their daughter had been kidnapped by these brutal people who threatened to behead her if they did not follow their instructions, why would they, not only ignore every demand by the kidnapppers (calling authorities, friends over so that it is OBVIOUS to anyone "watching" them) but on top of that shoo their vulnerable young son away out there into the path of the kidnappers??
Not a chance in **ll that any responsible parent would do that!
In fact, they would hang onto every word in that letter - it is the ONLY link to their missing daughter.
They would be fearful to stand in front of a window for fear someone may have them in the cross hairs - because they said they are 'watching' them.

No, John and Patsy KNEW there were no kidnappers out there.
They knew that this was just part of the act, the staging and role they must play until the body is found and the police back off, let them bury her, grieve in seclusion and "get on with their lives."
They knew they did not need to fear Burke leaving their side.
They knew they needed to scoot him out of the house that day, out of range of the detectives milling about the house who might get him to say something they don't want him to say.
Best to just tell him to say ONLY that he was "asleep" that night and morning and heard nothing and saw nothing.

Afterall, this is how you keep a dirty little family secret - well... secret.

Just my own humble opinion here.
~Angel~