Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

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Originally from Colorado, Tiffany says she and David also lived in Reynosa, Mexico for a little over two years, and always lived their lives to the fullest.

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=521698

Tiffany replied, "We had heard about the pirates, and them robbing fishermen and whoever were over there. But we hadn't heard anything for several months. So, no, we had no concerns whatsoever of going over there, living in Reynosa, I mean, you live there for two and a half years, and we're not people who, you know, blend in. We stand out. We don't blend in. And we lived there, and we lived a life of no fear.

http://cbs4denver.com/news/Former.Colorado.resident.2.1947387.html

They knew what was going on along the border. They lived across the border in Mexico. Her story just doesn't set right with me and I think they were out there, on the lake, for a different reason.

The other thing I find interesting is they hadn't been living in Texas all that long just 2 or 3 months. If I have read and heard correctly they were about to move back to Colorado... I wonder if everyone was wanting to move back...

This story is so hinky it is unreal. First there were witnesses and now to find out a man saw a boat following her jet ski... and the other group of witnesses heard gunshots??? There were no witnesses to the murder of the husband just her on the jet ski and the sounds of gunshots of which I am quite sure are not that unusual in Texas...

I will admit to being wrong if I am but I don't think her story is in the ballpark of true.

Why leave a witness to a murder? Why not just kill her and have two jet skis? I don't mean to be rude and if her unbelievable story is proven to be true she's lucky to be alive but ...


JMO
 
First of all, I had my doubts from moment one... I didn't post them early on because I didn't want to get chastised for blaming a "victim", so it's nice to see that others are also wondering about her version of what happened. I still don't know what I think, but I definitely have a lot of doubts. Here are my main thoughts:

- why let her go?!? That's what happened if they shot her husband - they would not have missed at that close of a range.

- she talks an awful lot about the Mexican political events (elections, border issues, etc), yet she claimed not to know the pirate situation was that bad.

- exit wounds: anyone who has studied JFK's assassination knows that the exit wound is larger than the entrance would (remember that the back of his head was blown away and Jackie was grabbing at the pieces... :(). And it doesn't have to be close range either, depending upon the gauge and the weapon.

- lifejackets have different ratings. It's doubtful he was wearing a Type I PFD (we're sailors - those are very bulky and uncomfortable). It could turn most folks face-up, but a Type II probably couldn't. And a Type III isn't meant to do that (think of a ski vest). Depending upon the type of foam (closed-cell vs open-cell) and the type of PFD, the PFD could also become saturated with water. Sounds like a Type III if she claims she had to turn him over to see his face.

- her appearance on television was actually quite convincing, but she stumbled a little when answering the question about Mexican authorities saying her story isn't true.

I'm so on the fence on this one. If it's true, I feel very sorry for her being put through this scrutiny. If it's not true, then she picked the perfect place at the perfect time to commit such a crime with all the talk of border issues in general and pirates in that specific area.
 
sorrell skye said:
IDK - but this whole story strikes me as possible political maneuvering, not to mention that very little of Tiffany's account of what allegedly happened that day makes sense (at least to me).

U.S./Mexico border control has been a hot-button issue for many years now.

I would hate to see this *event* (whatever this *event* ultimately turns out to be) manipulated in order to inflame the border control conflict between the U.S. & Mexico.
Click to expand...

I can't muster much sympathy except for his family, IF this is even true.
 
The fact that the sheriff says he believes this story is what baffles me.
MOO:

*How old is the sheriff? Could he be having a "relationship" with Tiffany?

*It can be difficult to find an honest well-qualified LE officer to take a low-paying Sheriff position in a rural area on the border. Maybe he is just not very smart. Maybe he is one of those men who's brain takes a vacation when young blonde dancers in swimwear tell whoppers!

*Maybe the sheriff is the type of guy who refuses to admit mistakes. :loser:

or

*:waitasec: Maybe the sheriff just wants her to think he believes her story.

Please don't bash me for portraying LE in a bad light! Most are good, but there are a few stinkers. I love LE people! My hubby is one of them!

(I think I need MOO wallpaper for this post!)
 
How much life insurance did David have?
Is she the beneficiary?
Double if accident???
Any children?
What was the marriage like?
I'm sorry I have not believed her story from day 1. JMOO
 
Anyone hear anything about financial problems? This sounds very fishy to me, but I'm usually wrong. Anyway, is there any way that he could still be alive hiding somewhere? Or my other thought could it be a drug deal gone wrong??? Don't get me wrong I'd love to believe this girl, but something just makes me wonder.
 
Does anyone know how long they've been married or if they have any children?
 
kathryann said:
Anyone hear anything about financial problems? This sounds very fishy to me, but I'm usually wrong. Anyway, is there any way that he could still be alive hiding somewhere? Or my other thought could it be a drug deal gone wrong??? Don't get me wrong I'd love to believe this girl, but something just makes me wonder.
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IF he really did get shot in the head (by somebody..doesn't have to be pirates) I would say he is 99% not alive. Especially after the time that's passed.

However, if this is a ruse that the two of them created in order to declare him dead to get life insurance money..then yes, I'd say he's most likely still alive. Quite an elaborate plan, but it's not the first I've heard of couples "pretending" to be dead in order to cash in.
 
I saw some posters asking earlier whether or not her jetski had bullet holes in it, so I thought I'd post this.

"Tiffany admitted on "The Early Show" that there is no evidence of a crime because she doesn't know the state of her husband's jet ski -- because it hasn't been found -- and her jet ski doesn't have any bullet holes. "

Snipped http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/07/earlyshow/main6935187.shtml
 
No way she got off her jetski, to retrieve her shot husband, while 3 boats of pirates are shooting at her! That part, as well as, the staring down the barrel of a gun a mere 10 feet away from her face ...and what? They missed? Decided to let her go but continued to chase her, while shooting at her, well into US waters?

No freakin way!

Makes more sense she paid THEM to shoot him!
 
MsFacetious said:
Tiffany Hartley has STILL apparently NOT filed an official complaint...which is needed for an official search.



According to media reports it is Tiffany Young-Hartley. Also according to her facebook.



They have been married for 8 years. June 1, 2002.



Tiffany says IN the original 911 call that her husband was shot "in the head."

That she TRIED to pull him onto her jet ski but he was "just too big."

She says that she got OFF of her jet ski, went over and flipped him over and saw the bullet hole.


Why would you even try to get him on your jet ski? I am precisely the same size as Tiffany. My father is about the same size as her husband. In a situation where he was unconscious and I needed to get out of the area immediately, I would grab onto the life jacket and pull him next to the jet ski while I drove. She had already flipped him over onto his back, so there wouldn't have been nearly as much drag as if he'd been face first. I would do that until I could get further away from the guys shooting, where I could likely pull him onto the jet ski or yell for help.

Why would they just shoot this guy dead, with no motive? They had no money obviously. They didn't take her wedding ring, or hold either of them for ransom. They didn't abduct her and rape her. They didn't kill her, the witness. This is nothing like the other robberies in the area, it doesn't fit the pattern. Unless there was some other motive for him to be killed, it makes no sense.


Meanwhile, the profile photo for David Hartley’s Facebook page changed on Friday — the day after he was reported missing — and he added new friends.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/falcon-117639-heights-police.html

The profile picture it changed to was uploaded, not just changed on Oct 1 and is of the water. He was gunned down on the 30th. I don't know about you... but I wouldn't be in the mood to change my husband's profile picture the day after seeing him get shot in the head.

If other people have reported that the pirates tried to "lure" them across the border, why would they chase her so far into US waters when they already decided not to kill her?

Held a gun to her head??? From a boat?

No, that is a new one for me. I had only heard that she was looking down the barrel of a gun and it was "the length of" her jet ski away from her...which was "about 10 feet."

So the "looking down the barrel of a gun" was not a figure of speech if it was ten feet away.




The pirates didn't speak to Tiffany, they only spoke in Spanish to each other "trying to decide what to do with" her.

They just shot him in the back of the head and then shot at her, but miraculously missed her and her jet ski.

All other cases the people have been robbed and they have been on boats. Obviously on a jet ski you don't have your wallet or your rolex on you.



sbm
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Terrific post!
 
I'm really leaning towards the fact that they BOTH planned this to cash in life insurance money. I think he's still alive, and he rode his jetski somewhere (pretty deserted), got off, and is hiding out. Then when searchers can't find his body or a jetski..Tiffany can have him declared dead, they cash in their life insurance, he resurfaces under a new identity, and everything is golden.

I think this is also why they're pushing for people to search for him so hard is because it's almost impossible to get him declared dead without a body IF no search efforts have been coordinated.
 
KaylynnCouture said:
I'm really leaning towards the fact that they BOTH planned this to cash in life insurance money. I think he's still alive, and he rode his jetski somewhere (pretty deserted), got off, and is hiding out. Then when searchers can't find his body or a jetski..Tiffany can have him declared dead, they cash in their life insurance, he resurfaces under a new identity, and everything is golden.

I think this is also why they're pushing for people to search for him so hard is because it's almost impossible to get him declared dead without a body IF no search efforts have been coordinated.
Click to expand...

I honestly think this is what happened. Perfect plan really. Hopefully he did not do this to his Mom she was so sad.
 
TGIRecovered said:
The fact that the sheriff says he believes this story is what baffles me.
MOO:

*How old is the sheriff? Could he be having a "relationship" with Tiffany?

*It can be difficult to find an honest well-qualified LE officer to take a low-paying Sheriff position in a rural area on the border. Maybe he is just not very smart. Maybe he is one of those men who's brain takes a vacation when young blonde dancers in swimwear tell whoppers!

*Maybe the sheriff is the type of guy who refuses to admit mistakes. :loser:

or

*:waitasec: Maybe the sheriff just wants her to think he believes her story.

Please don't bash me for portraying LE in a bad light! Most are good, but there are a few stinkers. I love LE people! My hubby is one of them!

(I think I need MOO wallpaper for this post!)
Click to expand...

Thank you TGI! That's what I have been wondering...also I was surprised when Gov. Rick Perry of Texas stated that he found her story credible. He said that they have asked the tough questions and they do not question her account. So, once again, I don't know what to believe with so many questions but LE and the Gov stating that her story hold up.

The other thing I wonder about....wouldn't the pirates be more apt to kill her husband, then rob and rape her? Then do away with her? That's what I had expected to read when this story broke...
 
THANK YOU to Ms. Facetious for her post about.

The info about his FaceBook photo changing the day after the "shooting" and adding friends...ODD, at best! Would a grieving wife do that?

Hinky in my world....
 
KaylynnCouture said:
I'm really leaning towards the fact that they BOTH planned this to cash in life insurance money. I think he's still alive, and he rode his jetski somewhere (pretty deserted), got off, and is hiding out. Then when searchers can't find his body or a jetski..Tiffany can have him declared dead, they cash in their life insurance, he resurfaces under a new identity, and everything is golden.

I think this is also why they're pushing for people to search for him so hard is because it's almost impossible to get him declared dead without a body IF no search efforts have been coordinated.
Click to expand...

What I'm about to write is very hard to write, considering that I'm on the fence. BUT IF this was planned by both, it could be their reason for moving to a border town to begin with - to become more and more acquainted Mexico on excursions such as this. And if it went down as she says in the news, then I feel bad for putting this out there...

On another note, they really were WAY in Mexico, not just over the border:

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Blondie, I think it is likely that Gov. Perry hasn't personally watched the multiple interviews in which the story keeps changing. One would hope that it would be a safe bet to simply trust in the judgement of the local sheriff, who has gone on record as believing the story. If the sheriff says that he has asked all of the tough questions and is satisfied with her answers, that is probably what the Governor will believe, until he is given info to the contrary.

I'm no great fan of Rick Perry, but I'd bet that he made that statement based upon incomplete or incorrect information.
 
KaylynnCouture said:
Another new article, with pictures of the wreath laying ceremony Tiffany and his parents did.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/me...for_man_missing_on_border_lake_104436949.html
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That whole wreath laying ceremony thing was odd, to me. Just struck me as kind of garish. I'd rather have this turn out to be 2 greedy people trying to get life insurance rather than bad guys chasing down innocent (albeit ignorant) jet skiers. If the latter is the case, none of us are safe.
 
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