AB's Involvement ptII

[scmom]

Paid under the table or not....how many people do you know that cut down trees in the dark of night or run a wood chipper in the dark of night? I would think for safety reasons alone both of those would be big no-nos.

I do, in fact, have first-hand knowledge that the only times people would use logging/felling equipment at night is in the case of an emergency, so I absolutely agree.
Most independent loggers or tree service companies work close enough to their homes that overnight travel would be extremely rare. So while I could understand AB possibly getting home late at night in the summertime I'm reasonably confident that when days are getting shorter he would be home earlier in the evenings.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I do, in fact, have first-hand knowledge that the only times people would use logging/felling equipment at night is in the case of an emergency, so I absolutely agree.
Most independent loggers or tree service companies work close enough to their homes that overnight travel would be extremely rare. So while I could understand AB possibly getting home late at night in the summertime I'm reasonably confident that when days are getting shorter he would be home earlier in the evenings.

I guess I'm just thinking that he wouldn't have had 'emergencies' on a daily basis..and if Adam was working SO much..why were they having such financial problems?..cause I'm sure he wasn't working and not getting paid..So, to not even cross your childs path when they or you are getting something to eat..going to the bathroom, etc to me is highly unlikely..at least not without wondering if something was wrong..Adam said HIMSELF that Zahra had a stomach bug..this child is only a year or so out from her last bout with cancer and a "Good Daddy" doesn't check on her at the very LEAST when it gets home..no matter what time it was?....nah..in my mind Adam is either (1) a crappy azz father (2) complicit in Zahra's death (3) so dumb, he should have never have been allowed to live on his own, much less with a child..or (4) a combination of 1 2 & 3...ALL MHO...fwiw..


ETA~I shouldn't say that Adam may have always been a crappy azz father..imo, he BECAME one for whatever reason..I really don't believe that he always was..and I guess as a parent that is one of the most mind boggling aspects of "Who IS Adam" for me...just wanted to clarify..

 

[Lanie]

I'm getting a little confused here. IMO, there is quite a difference between a 'logger' and someone who works for a tree service.

Is AB a logger? I thought he worked for a tree service.

 

[scmom]

I'm getting a little confused here. IMO, there is quite a difference between a 'logger' and someone who works for a tree service.

Is AB a logger? I thought he worked for a tree service.

Yes, there is a difference. Two members of my immediate family climb/fell/trim and clean up debris from same. A tree service is not a logging company. A logging company would clear tracts of lumber and take the logs to a plant that processes them into useable lumber or other by-products like paper, plywood, particle board, etc.
Sorry if this is OT, why.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I'm getting a little confused here. IMO, there is quite a difference between a 'logger' and someone who works for a tree service.

Is AB a logger? I thought he worked for a tree service.

Sorry, posters were talking about loggers (using the term logger), so I responded in kind. I will delete my post.

 

[StrayKat]

Had the rape allegation already been revealed before the warrants came out? If not seems like the LE should have been the one to notify him about this accusation. KB is the one that informed that he had just found out. Why do we discredit her word so quickly?

Please, someone answer me this. I have not followed this case near as much as others. Has there been any reports from neighbors/friends/family about AB not being a good father? I know EB's daughter spoke of being scared of her mom. Did she ever say anything about him?

 

[salvarenga]

Had the rape allegation already been revealed before the warrants came out? If not seems like the LE should have been the one to notify him about this accusation. KB is the one that informed that he had just found out. Why do we discredit her word so quickly?

Please, someone answer me this. I have not followed this case near as much as others. Has there been any reports from neighbors/friends/family about AB not being a good father? I know EB's daughter spoke of being scared of her mom. Did she ever say anything about him?

If LE is not keeping him in some kind of loop, then that also speaks volumes to me that they must not think he's 100% innocent either. Something as horrendous as rape allegations hitting the public domain and the LE doesn't pick up the phone and give you a heads up......things that make you go hmmm.

 

[StrayKat]

If LE is not keeping him in some kind of loop, then that also speaks volumes to me that they must not think he's 100% innocent either. Something as horrendous as rape allegations hitting the public domain and the LE doesn't pick up the phone and give you a heads up......things that make you go hmmm.

True. But wasn't there a mistake made that allowed the release of the warrants? The LE didn't want any of the warrants released and seem to have been surprised when they were.

 

[Allusonz]

I do, in fact, have first-hand knowledge that the only times people would use logging/felling equipment at night is in the case of an emergency, so I absolutely agree.
Most independent loggers or tree service companies work close enough to their homes that overnight travel would be extremely rare. So while I could understand AB possibly getting home late at night in the summertime I'm reasonably confident that when days are getting shorter he would be home earlier in the evenings.

i am sure that might be the case for some, as for my family in this business they do alot of work out of town on a regular basis, thus long periods of time where he is away

i would think it would depend on the individual company and how diverse they are in the stuff the bid on

 

[salvarenga]

True. But wasn't there a mistake made that allowed the release of the warrants? The LE didn't want any of the warrants released and seem to have been surprised when they were.

I wouldn't call it a mistake. I just think it was a delay tactic used by the DA that ended up back firing on him. The seal expired. The media filed for the release. The DA said OK let's hold a hearing on it but not till 12/13. The judge said no we can hold a hearing today (today being the day they were released) about it. The DA said he would not be prepared to argue against the release till 12/13 so the judge said sorry the ones that are expired are being released. There are still others that are sealed that they will have a hearing on the 13th.

Either way, once the judge gave the ok. The records had to be pulled, copied, etc. You can be sure that in that time if they had wanted to LE or the DA could have given AB a call and said, "hey just so you don't get hit out of left field with this....this is what's being put out today."

 

[CuriousHousewife]

Just a play on the scenario...I had a stepdad when I was growing up that abused me. Because I thought that my mom would protect me no matter what, when I was about 11, I begged her to leave him because he was hurting me and I was caught WAY off guard when she actually told him that I said this and I was punished very severely, not being allowed to leave my room for an extended amount of time except to go to the restroom and eat meals. I'm a well-adjusted adult, so not looking for sympathy, but I know this happens because it happened to me. I can still feel the shock of knowing that my mother betrayed me.

And my worry is that there's a possibility that Adam is maybe a bit of a "slow" adult, which could play into his defense. I hope he isn't found to have any mental impairment, but he doesn't sound incredibly coherent, IMO.

 

[Clue Hopper]

The entire case at this moment is based on who is telling the truth. EB is giving one story. AB is giving another story. No way is LE going to tell AB or EB what the other is saying or doing. They are even advised to not talk about or give any details about the case. Early on when AB was talking to reporters he often looked over at the Chief for approval before speaking. None of what the media puts out there can be taken as actual facts in the matter when talking to anyone except LE. Unless there is new evidence that shows AB is telling the truth, he is still a POI. As far as anyone letting him in on the news about the alleged incident with SY and JY I don't think anyone would. What do you do go up to the guy and say..... Hey buddy you know someone accused these guys of raping and killing your daughter, but hey LE didn't find any evidence so they dropped it......Would you? Most everything we have seen so far is focused on EB. It looks as though the LDT brought out the ransom note and things just went from there.

As we have seen from her letters she says in them maybe there was someone else all along. Yet it seems as though she was the someone with somebody or somebodies all along. So you have to take some things that are going to shock the heck out of you, and let them go to the back notes until facts come out. I know it's hard. I'm guilty of jumping the gun all the time. Just keep in mind that pretty much AB and KB are hearing things at the same time we all are.

 

[strach304]

Was it really a mistake that those warrants were released? The DA didn't file in time to keep them sealed? If so then I really tend to worry about the prosecution of this case.

I wouldn't take EB's word alone that Adam is responsible for the dismemberment but there are so many other things imo that make it obvious. For Gods sake, they found human tissue on the walls in the house. He lived there.

The really big question for me now and all along is why dismemberment? Such a desperate and despicable act to perpetrate against your own daughter. Why? I've come to the conclusion that it was something so horrific the body had to be destroyed to cover up that crime. That is why the allegation of sexual assault really fit for me.

 

[newone]

Just a play on the scenario...I had a stepdad when I was growing up that abused me. Because I thought that my mom would protect me no matter what, when I was about 11, I begged her to leave him because he was hurting me and I was caught WAY off guard when she actually told him that I said this and I was punished very severely, not being allowed to leave my room for an extended amount of time except to go to the restroom and eat meals. I'm a well-adjusted adult, so not looking for sympathy, but I know this happens because it happened to me. I can still feel the shock of knowing that my mother betrayed me.

And my worry is that there's a possibility that Adam is maybe a bit of a "slow" adult, which could play into his defense. I hope he isn't found to have any mental impairment, but he doesn't sound incredibly coherent, IMO.

Thanks for sharing your story and providing valuable insight...I have wondered for some time if there were two realities playing in poor Zahra's life -- a more fun loving one when dad was home and hell on earth when EB was at the helm. When those two worlds collide as it did in your case and as I suspect in Zahra's case, all hell breaks loose. :angel:

 

[april_showers]

If LE is not keeping him in some kind of loop, then that also speaks volumes to me that they must not think he's 100% innocent either. Something as horrendous as rape allegations hitting the public domain and the LE doesn't pick up the phone and give you a heads up......things that make you go hmmm.

As someone who is still on the fence - but definitely leaning more towards one side now - I think this is an excellent point. This was brought up earlier when AB gave a statement along the lines of "LE hasn't told me much." But at that point, it was still fair to speculate that perhaps LE had a reason (other than AB's culpability) to play their cards close. But now that this info has gone public, I agree it speaks volumes...

Even if investigators had already discounted these horrific allegations, I would think it would be beyond courtesy to sit down a cooperating, grieving father and let him know what is about to be released.

 

[Clue Hopper]

In the part of human tissue. Keep in mind that it could be as small as a pin head. I know that sounds outrageous but it is true.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Was it really a mistake that those warrants were released? The DA didn't file in time to keep them sealed? If so then I really tend to worry about the prosecution of this case.

I wouldn't take EB's word alone that Adam is responsible for the dismemberment but there are so many other things imo that make it obvious. For Gods sake, they found human tissue on the walls in the house. He lived there.

The really big question for me now and all along is why dismemberment? Such a desperate and despicable act to perpetrate against your own daughter. Why? I've come to the conclusion that it was something so horrific the body had to be destroyed to cover up that crime. That is why the allegation of sexual assault really fit for me.

Yep, I felt the same way for a long time now.

 

[agathawannabe]

If LE is not keeping him in some kind of loop, then that also speaks volumes to me that they must not think he's 100% innocent either. Something as horrendous as rape allegations hitting the public domain and the LE doesn't pick up the phone and give you a heads up......things that make you go hmmm.

It's also possible that LE is not keeping Adam in the investigative loop because Adam has been living with and maintaining obvious associations with numerous of EB's family members. LE won't risk having any incidental (or accidental) leaks of info to other potentially-involved (or knowledgeable) persons who may not be completely ruled out as of yet.

MOO

 

[butwhatif?]

I'm still on the fence. When the search was still on, and we heard rumors of woodchippers being used, my emotions got the better of me and I was convinced AB was as guilty, if not moreso than EB.

There are a few reasons why I'm back on the fence:

1) Most importantly- there is no evidence that points directly to AB being involved in a murder or dismembering Zahra. Only claims by EB who has a long track record of lies.
(if I'm wrong please correct me)

2) Knowing that there are allegations that EB had at least one other man on the side eliminates AB as the only person with enough strength to do the unspeakable. (Not accusing anyone here- just saying there are more scenarios to look at now)


3) The 911 call - That casual greeting and lack of urgency in the call by AB -Does that really equal guilt?

Have a listen to (innocent) Kevin fox's 911 call:

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6208077


IMO, this 911 call shows that even innocent people can come across as blase in a situation we would expect them to be panicking and full of emotion.

So for me, AB's lack of emotion in the 911 tape and any interviews is now off my list of reasons to believe he is guilty.


4) Key statements by AB with contractions (BBM):

Not sure if this has been discussed yet. I know there's been a lot of discussion about micro-expressions, body language etc. But I found the use of contractions by AB very interesting. (Using contractions is indicative of honesty whereas not using contractions is indicative of deception)


911 call

DISPATCHER: OK, Do you know who this was?
ADAM BAKER: I don't know who... No... no ma'am..
DISPATCHER: Do you know any idea why they were threatening to take his daughter?
ADAM BAKER: I don't know.

Interview with AB and his mum:

Q: Now you wanted to be there? (vigil)

A: Yeah. I would've liked to have gone, but I didn't want everybody to ah, take the focus of Zahra.

Q: What do you say to them? (people yelling abuse at AB)

A: Everybody has their own opinion. Uhm, there's no way in the world that I've ever hurt my daughter.

Q: So people need to know you didn't do this?

A: No there's no way I could do that to my baby.

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13519440


Ch 9 video:

Q:What do you think happened to Zahra?

A: I don't know.

Do you think your wife might have had some involvement in this?

A: I don't know.

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25405526/index.html

There's more, but I'm taking up enough space here already. (will add the others to a blog entry later with some comparisons)

Now let's look at EB's lack of contractions in key statements regarding AB's involement...

In regard to her stepdaughter, Baker had little to say other than reporting that the cops "know where she is and what he has done."

"That's right what he has done," Baker wrote.

She reinforces this statement by writing it twice. Note that she doesn't say "and what he's done" or "what Adam's done".

Where does EB use a contraction?

....but Zahra isn't missing," Baker wrote.

And interestingly, she uses a contraction when saying 'We really didn't kill her".


I am not convinced either way of AB's guilt or innocence.
However, if there is one iota of collected evidence that points to AB being involved I will be down off this fence in a nano-second.

Did he mess up and put Zahra in a terrible position by moving her to the US and leaving her in the 'care' of EB?

Absolutely!! But that doesn't make him guilty of murder, or dismembering his daughter, or a cover up- just very poor judgement with terrible consequences.

Should AB have been more involved with Zahra on a day-to-day basis? Heck yeah! But I felt compassion toward ED because she was suffering PPD and was not involved in Zahras life for a period of time because of it, so I'm doing the same for AB. I believe it's possible, even probable he's got depression too, which resulted in emotional detatchment.

Could that have lead to murder/dismemberment/cover up? Possibly....which is why I'm on the fence, instead of believing in his innocence.

Could he have saved Zahra from EB once he realised things were going downhill? I really don't know. I wasn't there, so I don't know just how far reaching her hold or her lies were. But it seems that EB is very experienced in pulling or attempting to pull the wool over peoples eyes.

I don't want to be another one of those people by believing anything she has to say now, especially since it's not adding up.

JMO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I am wavering too about how / where AB was involved, but he has made enough inconsistent statements for me to believe he did know something before the 911 call was made, whether he was directly involved himself or not.