2010.12.03 Agreement: No Death Penalty, Life In Prison For Elisa Baker

[bellyup]

They have some of it back, they said what a month or more for the rest of it? anyone have a link handy?

I think that's a method of stalling. NC is known for being quite cozy (even cuddly according to this report) with the SBI. They have a good amount if not all the testing back.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/08/23/north-carolinas-corrupted-crim (interesting article about corruption in the NC crime labs)
The report found that SBI agents withheld exculpatory evidence or distorted evidence in more than 230 cases over a 16-year period.

I am so worried about where this case is heading. I think impatientreadhead hit the mark. Someone was in way way way over their heads.

 

[Clue Hopper]

If I'm understanding correctly in some circumstances a prosecutor will offer this agreement to someone they believe is an accessory.

 

[raisincharlie]

I'm not so sure he has. If we take away everything that EB gave up in this case, I'm not sure there even WOULD be a case. She helped them find the mattress, lead them to the gel liner, bone, and remains at Dudley Shoals. She's the one who coughed up the dismemberment info, and directed LE to the drain traps in bathroom and kitchen. Remove those key piece of evidence, and I don't know where the investigation would be right now. Of course, I say that knowing only the facts presented to me, I have no idea what evidence LE has that I'm not privvy to.

MOO

I won't disagree, she gave up some things. But I'm not convinced she gave up as much as one thinks - case in point she was taken to Dudley Shoals on the 26th of October. LE went and searched a waterfall area well away from where Zahra was found. She let LE ride right past Zahra and said nothing. Zahra's remains at Dudley Shoals were recovered on the 10th of November. This descrepancy alone tells me she was jerking chains.

I myself do not believe for one single minute that the prosthetic was found in the dumpster behind the Fox Ridge Apartments nor if she led them to Christie Road why LE wasted all that time draining a pond if she was so accurate. Like you however; I am not privy to anything either but I do know what I see and can track by date. It doesn't add up in several instances.

Do you think she told LE who did kill Zahra ? Kinda important piece. Dubbs says she didn't implicate herself in that, so obviously she knows.

 

[scmom]

I won't disagree, she gave up some things. But I'm not convinced she gave up as much as one thinks - case in point she was taken to Dudley Shoals on the 26th of October. LE went and searched a waterfall area well away from where Zahra was found. She let LE ride right past Zahra and said nothing. Zahra's remains at Dudley Shoals were recovered on the 10th of November. This descrepancy alone tells me she was jerking chains.

I myself do not believe for one single minute that the prosthetic was found in the dumpster behind the Fox Ridge Apartments nor if she led them to Christie Road why LE wasted all that time draining a pond if she was so accurate. Like you however; I am not privy to anything either but I do know what I see and can track by date. It doesn't add up in several instances.

I'm with you. Remember that local LE had plenty of resources and were taking full advantage of them; maybe still are. They've probably got enough for the DA to dole out some pretty heavy charges even without EB.

 

[simlyme]

We need to look closer at the "item" Dubs retrieved, its definitely got a lot to do with what is transpiring today.Any thoughts on what the item could be?
This is around the time plea was made? correct?

Here's a snip And then link to article,

Dubbs told NewsChannel 36 that Gaither should know that the defense always has the right to look for evidence. She says that in this case the unspecified item was brought to Gaither himself to prove that Elisa Baker would cooperate truthfully.


http://www.wcnc.com/home/DA-Says-Th...ake-Arrest-in-Zahra-Baker-Case-108503144.html

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I won't disagree, she gave up some things. But I'm not convinced she gave up as much as one thinks - case in point she was taken to Dudley Shoals on the 26th of October. LE went and searched a waterfall area well away from where Zahra was found. She let LE ride right past Zahra and said nothing. Zahra's remains at Dudley Shoals were recovered on the 10th of November. This descrepancy alone tells me she was jerking chains.

I myself do not believe for one single minute that the prosthetic was found in the dumpster behind the Fox Ridge Apartments nor if she led them to Christie Road why LE wasted all that time draining a pond if she was so accurate. Like you however; I am not privy to anything either but I do know what I see and can track by date. It doesn't add up in several instances.

BBM

Assume for just one moment that EB might not have taken part in this part of the disposal. If the person who did do the disposing of this particular evidence tells EB, " Done. I buried the remains in a creek bed right near that waterfall area off Dudley Shoals Rd ", then isn't it possible that she cooperated as much as she were able, by leading LE to the waterfall area?

As for the prosthetic leg, to the best of my knowledge, WE don't even know if that was retrieved. At least, I don't have that information. The gel liner to the prosthetic leg is what was retrieved from Christie Rd., if I'm not mistaken.

 

[impatientredhead]

We need to look closer at the "item" Dubs retrieved, its definitely got a lot to do with what is transpiring today.Any thoughts on what the item could be?
This is around the time plea was made? correct?

Here's a snip And then link to article,

Dubbs told NewsChannel 36 that Gaither should know that the defense always has the right to look for evidence. She says that in this case the unspecified item was brought to Gaither himself to prove that Elisa Baker would cooperate truthfully.


http://www.wcnc.com/home/DA-Says-Th...ake-Arrest-in-Zahra-Baker-Case-108503144.html

Have we seen any tools listed as being removed by LE that would be used in a dismemberment? Is that the missing piece we haven't seen pulled by LE because some brought it to them. Here ya go, test it, her body has been dismembered, my client will take you to the remains?

 

[simlyme]

Lets read this carefully,
Dubs says:
"She says that in this case the unspecified item was brought to Gaither himself to prove that Elisa Baker would cooperate truthfully.

What item could possibly prove she would cooperate truthfully?
A knife used by AB? gloves worn by AB?
Help!!:banghead:

 

[scmom]

We need to look closer at the "item" Dubs retrieved, its definitely got a lot to do with what is transpiring today.Any thoughts on what the item could be?
This is around the time plea was made? correct?

Here's a snip And then link to article,

Dubbs told NewsChannel 36 that Gaither should know that the defense always has the right to look for evidence. She says that in this case the unspecified item was brought to Gaither himself to prove that Elisa Baker would cooperate truthfully.


http://www.wcnc.com/home/DA-Says-Th...ake-Arrest-in-Zahra-Baker-Case-108503144.html

Speculating; didn't LE recover 3 gloves?

 

[simlyme]

Have we seen any tools listed as being removed by LE that would be used in a dismemberment? Is that the missing piece we haven't seen pulled by LE because some brought it to them. Here ya go, test it, her body has been dismembered, my client will take you to the remains?

I dont believe the item has her prints, it implicates AB, it has to, I dont believe Dubs would insist on staying with her if she thought EB was in this alone,
yes, Dubs brought that piece in, thats when S$%t hit the fan between DA & her.

 

[simlyme]

Speculating; didn't LE recover 3 gloves?

LE were not the ones to recover this particular item, Dubs was.

 

[impatientredhead]

BBM

Assume for just one moment that EB might not have taken part in this part of the disposal. If the person who did do the disposing of this particular evidence tells EB, " Done. I buried the remains in a creek bed right near that waterfall area off Dudley Shoals Rd ", then isn't it possible that she cooperated as much as she were able, by leading LE to the waterfall area?

As for the prosthetic leg, to the best of my knowledge, WE don't even know if that was retrieved. At least, I don't have that information. The gel liner to the prosthetic leg is what was retrieved from Christie Rd., if I'm not mistaken.

And at the end of the day she did provide the evidence she said she would. Whether she did it in the most efficient manner possible is not really the crux of the matter. The state is making a deal with a criminal. When they go in front of a judge and ask them to nullify a deal that crucial evidence was collected based on the state is going to be held to a higher standard of conduct than a criminal that dismembered a child.

The state has a responsibility to not make mistake when making the deal, to not rush into, to not make promises they will later regret, and they are trained professionals with ethics that have to be met. The judge is not going to let them go against the *intent* of the deal because they are unhappy or because EB took the round about way getting to the evidence she promised.

She will have to do something outrageously in violation of the agreement to have it pulled out from underneath her. And she appears to have had fairly competent counsel, and appears to still have her should the state try to throw the deal out.... I will be surprised to see it pulled.

I have been googling and the ones I can find where deals were pulled of the table were cases were someone led them to evidence, and then had a major change of heart about testifying and backed out of being the witness for the prosecution. She will have to defy the agreement, not technically violate it. They don't have high expectation of her moral compass.

 

[simlyme]

This was an item Elisa told Dubs where she could find it in the house(21).
Ill try to find that specific article.

 

[scmom]

LE were not the ones to recover this particular item, Dubs was.

I was agreeing with you; I think it may have been a glove because I thought I'd read in one of the warrants that LE seized three latex gloves.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm with you. Remember that local LE had plenty of resources and were taking full advantage of them; maybe still are. They've probably got enough for the DA to dole out some pretty heavy charges even without EB.

If that's the case, then how come we don't have a murder charge yet, even WITH the info EB supplied?

 

[raisincharlie]

BBM

Assume for just one moment that EB might not have taken part in this part of the disposal. If the person who did do the disposing of this particular evidence tells EB, " Done. I buried the remains in a creek bed right near that waterfall area off Dudley Shoals Rd ", then isn't it possible that she cooperated as much as she were able, by leading LE to the waterfall area?

As for the prosthetic leg, to the best of my knowledge, WE don't even know if that was retrieved. At least, I don't have that information. The gel liner to the prosthetic leg is what was retrieved from Christie Rd., if I'm not mistaken.

Then who pointed LE to the real location on Dudley Shoals 2 weeks after EB is supposedly cooperating ? I assume nothing - bad word you know the saying.

According to the search warrants and motions yeah the gel liner was found on Christie Road and identified by EB. My point is if she pointed out a dumpster and the prosthetic wasn't found, either in the dumpster or at the landfill, was she even telling the truth to begin with ? If LE doesn't have it and can't find it, seems to me there is no proof she can provide to demonstrate truthfulness about that. But we know LE has it, they got the serial number off of it and checked it against records from Australia. The question remains where was it found and does its location match with her claim. Dunno

She is aware of where to point out on Christie Road but not on Dudley Shoals?

 

[westsidefox64]

LE were not the ones to recover this particular item, Dubs was.

At first I thought maybe the 4th glove but then thought of the one the neighbor found...IMO puts that out of the running.

I think either the prostetic leg or possibly a picture of someone doing something to Z...JMO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

And at the end of the day she did provide the evidence she said she would. Whether she did it in the most efficient manner possible is not really the crux of the matter. The state is making a deal with a criminal. When they go in front of a judge and ask them to nullify a deal that crucial evidence was collected based on the state is going to be held to a higher standard of conduct than a criminal that dismembered a child.

The state has a responsibility to not make mistake when making the deal, to not rush into, to not make promises they will later regret, and they are trained professionals with ethics that have to be met. The judge is not going to let them go against the *intent* of the deal because they are unhappy or because EB took the round about way getting to the evidence she promised.

She will have to do something outrageously in violation of the agreement to have it pulled out from underneath her. And she appears to have had fairly competent counsel, and appears to still have her should the state try to throw the deal out.... I will be surprised to see it pulled.

I have been googling and the ones I can find where deals were pulled of the table were cases were someone led them to evidence, and then had a major change of heart about testifying and backed out of being the witness for the prosecution. She will have to defy the agreement, not technically violate it. They don't have high expectation of her moral compass.

Agreed on all points.

 

[Hickory Born]

The timing of this leak has me perplexed. The GJ meets on Monday. Adam doesn't have an appointed attorney in Catawba County. Will Adam now go directly to LE and tell how EB murdered Zahra?

As for LD no wonder she left a possible trial on the table (instead of a guilty plea for no DP/Life), she will now be seen all over the world in a trial that will be talked about for years to come.

I want to add one more option to the stated above. Or will Adam now go directly to LE and ask for a plea deal because he murdered Zahra?

This leak might have been on purpose.

 

[raisincharlie]

Have we seen any tools listed as being removed by LE that would be used in a dismemberment? Is that the missing piece we haven't seen pulled by LE because some brought it to them. Here ya go, test it, her body has been dismembered, my client will take you to the remains?

A tool - yeah a Knife and a sheath were taken from the residence by LE. There was also the report of a tool being found by LE on Indian Grave Road but no further mention of it.