The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

Did Patsy lie about the Bloomingdale’s panties?

  • Yes

    Votes: 164 77.7%

  • No

    Votes: 14 6.6%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 33 15.6%
  • Total voters
    211

New Posts

slug said:
the sizes of the underware confuses me because here in the uk kids underware comes in ages ie age 4-5 age 9-10 etc, so when i first read in size 12 i thought they must be very large.
let me try and get something straight a girl JBR age would normally wear about size 8 do sizes vary greatly from one store to another or are all size 8 the same no matter where they are purchased?
Click to expand...

US sizing is confusing! I think the type of sizing varies a lot depending on where you buy from. Hanna Andersson sells using the metric system. Some use a xs/small/med/large designation. Most do sizing by 4-6, 8-10, 12-14 which is by size not age. Big kids could be in a size 4-6 well before they are 4 yrs and on to a size 8-10 by age 5 or 6. Others will still be in the 4-6 until age 6 or 7. I also think more expensive brands are sized more generously. What you can know is that if you jump up two sizes...that is a pretty big jump. Improper fitting panties, either too big or too small may cause what in the US is termed a "wedgie" where the material rides up in an uncomfortable fashion. Some girls prefer their underwear on the smaller side (the too big ones ride up the worst) and they may prefer the old stretched out panties to the newer and still a little too big ones. It can be hard to convince a young girl to toss out her much beloved Disney Princess panties, speaking as a mom with experience.

I think generally UK kids are smaller than US kids at least it seemed that way when my size small/med teen daughter went to London with a friend and they were both shocked and dismayed to need to by size Large.
For those in the US here is a UK chart: Is this typical, Slug?
The UK mail order catalog called Boden:
http://www.boden.co.uk/en-GB/help/childrens-fit-and-size-charts.html#help
 
I don't see how the panties are really such as issue whether they were in the drawer or still down in the basement. The only thing that might be telling is someone could have put the new underwear on JonBenet wanting her to be found in clean new underwear instead of the stained ones. It's known that Patsy didn't clean her house, must not have cleaned old sizes out of drawers very well, and waited til the last minute to get things done. She very well may have been intending to send those panties as a gift and didn't get it done. The other days of the week could have been in the drawer or anywhere in the house since the kids left things all over the place. JonBenet may have put them on, and it's said that she did dress herself. Patsy probably would have noticed if she tried to wear way too big panties when going to a pageant or right after a bath, but just may not have noticed during the holidays and they hadn't had the panties that long either.
 
txsvicki said:
I don't see how the panties are really such as issue whether they were in the drawer or still down in the basement. The only thing that might be telling is someone could have put the new underwear on JonBenet wanting her to be found in clean new underwear instead of the stained ones. It's known that Patsy didn't clean her house, must not have cleaned old sizes out of drawers very well, and waited til the last minute to get things done. She very well may have been intending to send those panties as a gift and didn't get it done. The other days of the week could have been in the drawer or anywhere in the house since the kids left things all over the place. JonBenet may have put them on, and it's said that she did dress herself. Patsy probably would have noticed if she tried to wear way too big panties when going to a pageant or right after a bath, but just may not have noticed during the holidays and they hadn't had the panties that long either.
Click to expand...

The panties are an issue for several reasons. First, they were LIED about. No reason for innocent people to lie. Also, your comment about not wanting her to be found in clean new underwear means that whoever changed her by the very nature of the act had knowledge of her DEATH. And NO intruder, SFF, or anyone NOT a parent would care whether her panties were clean or not.
This isn't about Patsy's housekeeping or tidiness. Police searched the house, not just JB's drawer. They were not in the drawer. We know Patsy DID intend to use them as a gift. And maybe she didn't. But if she didn't, they'd have been where she said they were. In the drawer.
 
Steely said:
US sizing is confusing! I think the type of sizing varies a lot depending on where you buy from. Hanna Andersson sells using the metric system. Some use a xs/small/med/large designation. Most do sizing by 4-6, 8-10, 12-14 which is by size not age. Big kids could be in a size 4-6 well before they are 4 yrs and on to a size 8-10 by age 5 or 6. Others will still be in the 4-6 until age 6 or 7. I also think more expensive brands are sized more generously. What you can know is that if you jump up two sizes...that is a pretty big jump. Improper fitting panties, either too big or too small may cause what in the US is termed a "wedgie" where the material rides up in an uncomfortable fashion. Some girls prefer their underwear on the smaller side (the too big ones ride up the worst) and they may prefer the old stretched out panties to the newer and still a little too big ones. It can be hard to convince a young girl to toss out her much beloved Disney Princess panties, speaking as a mom with experience.


I think generally UK kids are smaller than US kids at least it seemed that way when my size small/med teen daughter went to London with a friend and they were both shocked and dismayed to need to by size Large.
For those in the US here is a UK chart: Is this typical, Slug?
The UK mail order catalog called Boden:
http://www.boden.co.uk/en-GB/help/childrens-fit-and-size-charts.html#help
Click to expand...

Actually its...4/6, 6/8, 8/10,10/12, 12/14......SOOO...if 4/6's were the only ones found in her underwear drawer.....then really the 12/14's were FOUR sizes too big, and not just one.
 
Ames said:
Actually its...4/6, 6/8, 8/10,10/12, 12/14......SOOO...if 4/6's were the only ones found in her underwear drawer.....then really the 12/14's were FOUR sizes too big, and not just one.
Click to expand...
Oh my gosh...Yes! You are RIGHT! I forgot half of them. OOps, sorry about that! It would have been four sizes! I sure messed that up. I agree with you, Ames, that back then most sizing was as above. I did just check Hanes and Gap and sizing is all over the map. At Hanes the girls panties are by single sizes but the boys are not. It's crazy that within the same manufacturer the type of sizing is not consistent.
Here's the link for the boys:
http://images.buy-here.com/hanes/images/static/SizeChart_boys_underwear.jpg
The girls sizing is 4,6,8,10,12 etc. now, at least on the website
http://www.hanes.com/Hanes/Products...s/Kids_Girls_girlsunderwear-Hanes/1A0521.aspx

I sure wish the US would use more uniform sizing.
 
Steely said:
Oh my gosh...Yes! You are RIGHT! I forgot half of them. OOps, sorry about that! It would have been four sizes! I sure messed that up. I agree with you, Ames, that back then most sizing was as above. I did just check Hanes and Gap and sizing is all over the map. At Hanes the girls panties are by single sizes but the boys are not. It's crazy that within the same manufacturer the type of sizing is not consistent.
Here's the link for the boys:
http://images.buy-here.com/hanes/images/static/SizeChart_boys_underwear.jpg
The girls sizing is 4,6,8,10,12 etc. now, at least on the website
http://www.hanes.com/Hanes/Products...s/Kids_Girls_girlsunderwear-Hanes/1A0521.aspx

I sure wish the US would use more uniform sizing.
Click to expand...

We know that JB was NOT found in a single size pair of underwear, for example a size 12...Bloomies come in sizes like the panties that are in the below link...
http://www.ec51.com/sell-price-a5020a__5pcs__girl's_underwear_stocks-1368567.html JB was found in size 12/14.

"I/NO.: A5020A 5pcs girl’s underwear stocks MATERIAL:100%cotton SIZE:2-4/4-6/8-10/10-12/14-16/16-18 COLOR:multicolor as photo Q’TY.: 29040boxes PACKING:5pcs/box, 120boxes/0.075cbm"

If the sizes were 4/6,8/10, 12/14....then sizes are being left out....sizes 7 and 11....I guess that is why they make them 2/4, 4/8, 8/10, 10/12, 12/14.....that way no sizes are left out. A smaller 4 year old would wear size 2/4....and a larger 4 year old, maybe going on 5...would wear 4/8.
 
Ames said:
We know that JB was NOT found in a single size pair of underwear, for example a size 12...Bloomies come in sizes like the panties that are in the below link...
http://www.ec51.com/sell-price-a5020a__5pcs__girl's_underwear_stocks-1368567.html JB was found in size 12/14.

"I/NO.: A5020A 5pcs girl’s underwear stocks MATERIAL:100%cotton SIZE:2-4/4-6/8-10/10-12/14-16/16-18 COLOR:multicolor as photo Q’TY.: 29040boxes PACKING:5pcs/box, 120boxes/0.075cbm"

If the sizes were 4/6,8/10, 12/14....then sizes are being left out....sizes 7 and 11....I guess that is why they make them 2/4, 4/8, 8/10, 10/12, 12/14.....that way no sizes are left out. A smaller 4 year old would wear size 2/4....and a larger 4 year old, maybe going on 5...would wear 4/8.
Click to expand...
Ames, I wasn't arguing...I was agreeing with you, I forgot half the sizes. I added the extra info for the UK poster explaining how confusing sizing is in the US and it has just gotten WORSE since JB was killed.
 
Steely said:
Ames, I wasn't arguing...I was agreeing with you, I forgot half the sizes. I added the extra info for the UK poster explaining how confusing sizing is in the US and it has just gotten WORSE since JB was killed.
Click to expand...

LOL..no, I knew that you were not arguing with me..and agreed with me. I posted that for all of the IDI's on the board, that maintain that she was found in a size 12. JUST a size 12....not 12/14. Sorry if you thought that I thought that you were arguing!!!!!
 
Re IDI-I have some ideas re why she was redressed and why the smaller panties are missing.
Am more interested now in RDI and the bloomies now.
So if I got it right,she was probably wearing a small (normal for her age and size) pair when something happened.Why was it so important though ,seems that changing her panties played a big part in the alledged staging,right?Why did they spend so much time with cleaning her and changing her clothes.Not the shirt(or maybe the shirt too if we believe ST when he says PR claimed she was wearing the red turtleneck when put to bed),but the panties.Not the long johns.
WHY ARE THE SMALL PANTIES MISSING if RDI.Means that what happened to her,what caused her death has something to do with her being hurt down there.I guess the missing panties,the redressing,the cleaning play a huge part in this case and brings us closer to what and why it happened.
IF PR bothered to write such a note that means something huge needed to be covered up.And again,PR writing the note (IF true) makes me believe it was NOT her that killed JB but one of the other two present in the house.
So IMO the crime IS sex-related (the missing panties,the redressing,cleaning the body) and then we have a mother covering for someone else and still wanting her baby to be comfortable(?maybe not the right word,but)... (blanket,clean clothes) even after death.

Again,why so much confusion re the big bloomies,why bother to make the small ones dissapear,why clean her body (requires a lot of time) if it was just an accident/head bash.
Nope,IMO everything started with JB being hurt down there.....
 
I've wondered about these possibilities for the missing 4/6 panties:
If RDI:
a)Disposed of because they had DNA evidence from the R's

b)something incriminating was on them which would implicate them
(what about hair dye/peroxide? I've wondered it PR dyed her hair that night)

c)panties were soiled when she got the head injury (in PR's bathroom?) and pullups put on her (maybe even OVER those panties) to take to the basement to keep the periodically leaking urine or fecal release from getting on the R's or the floor as they moved her. They knew that they had to get rid of the pullup and she had to be cleaned so it would look like a sex offender did it so they removed the pullup (and maybe the panties) and wiped her with a cloth...wrapped that all up inside the pullup to be thrown away (neighbors trash?) I think JR put the bloomies on (I think these were in the basement and JR stashed the rest of them in his golf bag.) I think PR was upstairs getting the long johns and top while JR was putting the panties on her and she didn't see him put the extras in the golf bag. She didn't even think about them at the time so later when she was asked about them...they hadn't figured out that part of the "story" together.

d)the panties are missing to make it look like a pedophile took both the panties and part of the brush as "souvenirs"

If IDI:
a)they were souvenirs
b)they were taken to get rid of DNA evidence from the perp
 
Steely said:
I've wondered about these possibilities for the missing 4/6 panties:
If RDI:
a)Disposed of because they had DNA evidence from the R's

b)something incriminating was on them which would implicate them
(what about hair dye/peroxide? I've wondered it PR dyed her hair that night)

c)panties were soiled when she got the head injury (in PR's bathroom?) and pullups put on her (maybe even OVER those panties) to take to the basement to keep the periodically leaking urine or fecal release from getting on the R's or the floor as they moved her. They knew that they had to get rid of the pullup and she had to be cleaned so it would look like a sex offender did it so they removed the pullup (and maybe the panties) and wiped her with a cloth...wrapped that all up inside the pullup to be thrown away (neighbors trash?) I think JR put the bloomies on (I think these were in the basement and JR stashed the rest of them in his golf bag.) I think PR was upstairs getting the long johns and top while JR was putting the panties on her and she didn't see him put the extras in the golf bag. She didn't even think about them at the time so later when she was asked about them...they hadn't figured out that part of the "story" together.

d)the panties are missing to make it look like a pedophile took both the panties and part of the brush as "souvenirs"

If IDI:
a)they were souvenirs
b)they were taken to get rid of DNA evidence from the perp
Click to expand...

Steely,
Could be any of those options, except for the IDI, it lacks corroborating evidence.

a)Disposed of because they had DNA evidence from the R's
Click to expand...
Presumably you mean semen dna, other parental dna might be explicable in terms of day to day contact?

b)something incriminating was on them which would implicate them
(what about hair dye/peroxide? I've wondered it PR dyed her hair that night)
Click to expand...
Yes a possibility, but why just her underwear?

c)panties were soiled when she got the head injury (in PR's bathroom?) and pullups put on her (maybe even OVER those panties) to take to the basement to keep the periodically leaking urine or fecal release from getting on the R's or the floor as they moved her. They knew that they had to get rid of the pullup and she had to be cleaned so it would look like a sex offender did it so they removed the pullup (and maybe the panties) and wiped her with a cloth...wrapped that all up inside the pullup to be thrown away (neighbors trash?) I think JR put the bloomies on (I think these were in the basement and JR stashed the rest of them in his golf bag.) I think PR was upstairs getting the long johns and top while JR was putting the panties on her and she didn't see him put the extras in the golf bag. She didn't even think about them at the time so later when she was asked about them...they hadn't figured out that part of the "story" together.
Click to expand...
Yes, but would her underwear not be soiled whomever killed her? Why the emphasis on clean underwear? Remember Patsy's story about putting JonBenet to bed. The white gap top, the longjohn's etc e.g. JonBenet is asleep so she never changed into those size-12's. Even if it had been due to soiling etc, why not simply fetch a pair of size-6's when you fetch the longjohns from JonBenet's drawer in her bathroom. You know its a cleanup job and you know , minimally, underwear is required.


d)the panties are missing to make it look like a pedophile took both the panties and part of the brush as "souvenirs"
Click to expand...
So why bother with size-12's? Just leave JonBenet naked from the waist down, evidently injured. Job done, blame the pedophile.

So for me it looks like options a) or b). With a) nudging ahead of b).


.
 
No fecal release. The autopsy would have seen evidence of fecal remains down that far in the excretory system, and it did not. JB's feces was seen as the "soft green fecal material" higher up in her system, in the small intestine, I believe.
Contrary to what many believe, although there is almost ALWAYS a release of urine at death due to primary flaccidity, there is NOT always a release of feces. If the feces not in the part of the excretory system where it is about to be excreted, it will not be eliminated due to primary flaccidity.
And we already know there was urine stains on the anterior (front) of the longjohns and panties, so no pullups could have been on her at that point.
 
(snipped for brevity)
Steely said:
I've wondered about these possibilities for the missing 4/6 panties:
Click to expand...

Steely,

I like your thought process here: Consider all the possibilities and then rank the probability. Good logic, good exercise.

Let me offer another option, if you would:
e) the panties were replaced with another pair and disposed of because they had JB's blood on them.

I think an attempt was made to hide the sexual aspect of this altogether. This would also be the reason the body was wiped down, the reason the end of the paintbrush disappeared (presumably used in the molestation/assault), possibly the reason for the bunched up red sweater in the sink (we don't know the results of BPD testing on it), and possible blood on the pink nightie that JR freaked out over when he saw it in a picture during his interview.

Perhaps the thinking (hoping) was that if it looked like a kidnapping gone bad, the Boulder medical examiner wouldn't even look for evidence of a sexual crime. After all, everyone knows :)smile:) a child molester doesn't ask for a ransom.
.
 
otg said:
(snipped for brevity)


Steely,

I like your thought process here: Consider all the possibilities and then rank the probability. Good logic, good exercise.

Let me offer another option, if you would:
e) the panties were replaced with another pair and disposed of because they had JB's blood on them.

I think an attempt was made to hide the sexual aspect of this altogether. This would also be the reason the body was wiped down, the reason the end of the paintbrush disappeared (presumably used in the molestation/assault), possibly the reason for the bunched up red sweater in the sink (we don't know the results of BPD testing on it), and possible blood on the pink nightie that JR freaked out over when he saw it in a picture during his interview.

Perhaps the thinking (hoping) was that if it looked like a kidnapping gone bad, the Boulder medical examiner wouldn't even look for evidence of a sexual crime. After all, everyone knows :)smile:) a child molester doesn't ask for a ransom.
.
Click to expand...

Excellent points. I have always felt that if the garrote was staging to provide an instantly visible cause of death, the Rs may have thought there wouldn't even BE an autopsy. They may not have known that all dead children (and ALL murder victims) are autopsied, regardless of whether the cause of death is known. And the reason for that is to uncover any hidden injuries or abuse, which is exactly what was done in JB's case- the huge skull fracture and vaginal injuries, as well as the remnants of identifiable (i.e. recently eaten) pineapple.
 
JonBenet was six-years-old...she wore size 6 panties. The size 4 were older panties that Patsy had not gotten rid of. Patsy lied to LE when she said JonBenet wore size 8 panties...there were no size 8 panties in the home.

SIZE 6 PANTIES FOR A NORMAL SIZED SIX-YEAR-OLD.
 
SuperDave said:
No, I think this is where we went wrong. I think the evidence was already compiled a long time ago. The idea of the oversize panties is not new. It's been around for quite a while. Indeed, just type in "JonBenet" "oversize" and "underwear" into Google and you'll come up with plenty of those mainstream media sources HOTYH LOOOOVES so much that state 12-14 as fact.
Click to expand...

You know, I just did that, Googled Jonbenet oversize and underwear, and all I came up with were comments on forums like this one.
 
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